Lust For Glory Alienating The Majority?

by Englishman 70 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  Englishman

  If I had ever been a victim of abuse, and the offence had been perpetrated by a member of the JW religion, then Silent Lambs would be the best thing ever to appear, both on TV and in person.

  If I had a close friend or relative who had gone through the same trauma, then I would feel almost the same emotion.

  Now I do not know, obviously, what percentage of persons on this site have been victims of abuse by JW's, but my guess is that this percentage is relatively small. So whilst most of us feel very empathetic to abuse victims, not that great a proportion of us have experienced it personally.

  However, I do know that many of us have suffered trauma because of other forms of abuse by this organisation, including disfellowshipping which has caused many to be rejected by their loved ones. Whilst it is not possible to measure this form of abuse against that of child abuse, it is nonetheless a type of abuse that most of us are familiar with on a personal level, it's also a type of abuse that is still going on for many who post here.

  So, IMHO, that is the reason that people here feel very protective of persons such as Ray Franz and Jim Penton, a vast proportion of posters here have personally benefitted from their writings and feel a rapport with these men. Consequently, they feel indignant when they are maligned by a newbie ex-JW who's modus operandi is focused, not just on helping abused one's, but also on bringing down the very people who have assisted the majority of us to re-build our lives.

  The question then arises, why can Silent Lambs not do it's work without maligning those who have also done a tremendous service to the ex-JW community in general?

  Englishman.
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  BB

  I dont know, but its a good question. To get the answer, maybe youd be better off to address your remarks to the individual or individuals that raised the question initially.

  If I were asked, I might offer that it could have come from a desire to seek a degree of unity from the ex-JW community (as a whole) on this very important issue. Many believe this cause to be a "no brainer" and can not fathom why all ex-Jehovahs Witnesses would not be at least somewhat supportive of the only organized movement geared to specifically address these issues.

  I feel that some of the more ardent supporters are so focused on this and so driven to make the cause a success that the obvious lack of endorsements from some has been equated as opposition to the movement and to those in a leadership capacity. I feel that there has got to be a degree of frustration among some of the supporters that this thing has become so disjointed and fractured.

  Of course, this is all just conjecture on my part. To get the real answers youd probably have to ask somebody that actually knows what is going on.

  BTW, I liked your "Lust For Glory" header, as it was only slightly inflammatory and I feel it was geared to garner the greatest number of viewers.

  BB
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  Englishman

  BTW, I liked your "Lust For Glory" header, as it was only slightly inflammatory and I feel it was geared to garner the greatest number of viewers.

  BB,

  I'm glad you picked up on that, "Lust for Glory" was of course the film about General Patton, a man not unlike Bill Bowen insofar as his unorthodox methods would sometimes produce results and infuriate those wishing to preserve the status quo.

  Englishman.
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  RevMalk

  I'm confused Englishman.

  First you tell me you think SL will not fail, and BB is the kind of person it takes to make an organization like SL succeed, and now you're running around saying things like Bill needs to step down, etc etc etc.

  But even still, I understand your point. The problem is, however, that to ignore the faults and possible wrongdoing of our so called 'saviour' because he helped us is both Hypocritical and wrong. I'm not saying that these men are evil, I'm merely saying that they should not be 'protected' because they did so many things right. You know what your momma told you, two wrongs don't make a right, and it goes both ways. I'm not saying we should track ol' Ray don't and march up to his door, but come on, we're all susceptible to criticism, and to deny the possible wrong of one or two men, and to say "The Watchtower is our enemy and our only enemy" is disgusting. That would mean that we're only out to get one organization, only because they ARE that organization. This is ridiculous. We should be out to 'get' anyone who has caused harm to these innocent people. Obviously our main concern should be those that are continually causing harm. But to point out that someone has done wrong in the past is not reason for this amount of crap. Is Bill Bowen innocent? Perhaps in this case, but not in all. He sat at the wrong end of a judicial hearing or two as well, and he shouldn't forget that when criticizing others. But the thing is, we were ALL on that end of the stick once. I just find the entire thing insane. One man's opinion causes these much grief? It's time to grow up for crying out loud, it's over, let a dead dog lie.
• 

  Englishman

  First you tell me you think SL will not fail, and BB is the kind of person it takes to make an organization like SL succeed, and now you're running around saying things like Bill needs to step down, etc etc etc.

  I guess that I'm working through some stuff myself here. First off, I wanted to see justice done for the children who had been abused. Then I questioned my own motives as to whether or not I was more pleased for them or for the fact that the WT was taking a well deserved hiding. Then I saw the way that Bill Bowen treated people and felt indignant on their behalf that Bill Bowen appeared to be rubbishing people that I held in very high regard. Then I questioned as to whether or not Silent Lambs very limited scope was more important than the work done by others.

  This is where I am at now: Silent lambs is very important, but it works for a small minority of people, those who have been / are being sexually abused. I find it very difficult to support an organisation who's leader pours scorn on the very people who have helped me come to terms with my own experience of mental abuse at the hands of the WT.

  Trailblazers are not by nature the most consistent of people. I believe Bill Bowens abilities have served their purpose very well, now Silent lambs needs some stability, it also needs to get along with the very people who have been so needlessly antagonised. It now needs someone else at the helm to repair some of the damage done IMHO.

  Englishman.
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  sunshineToo

  Hi, Englishman!

  I could have been a victim of molestation long time ago. If my family hadn't moved sooner, I would have been raped by that discusting man whom I can still remember. Each time he came over to my house, I was in terror.

  I am not a jw anymore because I stood up for what is right. Now I've been treated like a disease or filthy person by jws. I get nervous whenever I talk to my jw mom. I pray eachtime I talk to her that she wouldn't shun me totally like many other jw parents do to their ex-jw children.

  I used to feel devastated, sad and angry. Now I only feel anger. One of my jw students' parent called me this morning. She fired me as her daughter's piano teacher because she said that she just found out that I was not a jw anymore. Her daughter was my best student and I adored her. Our relationship of 5 years was as expendable as garbage. We had a contract that she needed to give me a 30-day notice before she quit otherwise she'd be resposible for the next month tuition. She didn't. So I wrote a letter reminding her that she needs to pay. She didn't want to pay anything. We raised voices a little. But at the end I finally told her why I had to DA myself and why I was upset with how I've been treated by jws. She sounded sympathetic and said that she had no idea. Was she really sincere? I don't know.

  I can understand the frustration and anger that Bill has. I want to scream to them, "Why am I wrong?" I can understand why Bill was disappointed when Ray and others declined to help him out. It'd been like it's on your own. You have to prove and work that the child molestation cases within the Watchtower society is real. I just wished that Bill would have acted more calmly.

  Does that make Bill disqualified for his job? I don't think so. Does that make the Silent Lambs look bad? Possible. But remember that Peter denied Jesus 3 times in public, and that didn't make him less qualified for his job.

  I just want all the victims come out and sue the Watchtower until they go bankrupt. I want the FBI investigate and shut down this cult for good. I HATE THIS CULT AND SICK OF IT ALREADY.
• 

  Crazy151drinker

  Patton kicked ass. So did McArthur, even if he did want to nuke China. Well maybe that idea wasnt so bad.......
• 

  Englishman

  Sunshine too,

  Thanks for explaining that. You're saying that Bill is acting in this fashion because he feels frustrated that the famous ex's won't help him or give him their support?

  It's an interesting point, if it's OK with you I will think on this one a little while before I reply in full.

  Regards,

  Englishman.
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  RevMalk

  Well, I don't know about all that Englishman, sure the guy has made mistakes, but who wouldn't? Who would be your suggestion for a replacement?

  I think it'll pan out ok, just like you convinced me of a few weeks ago. With the implementation of the new silentlambs charters and such, Bill's position will fade a bit. It's a whole new Ballgame, and Bill himself realized that this is what's now needed. I think your original opinion of the situation was right on the ball, just as I thought it was when we were discussing it. You were right, it does take a guy like that, and you were also right that he is human, and that things WILL pan out in the end. And they are. It's just time for this whole topic to end, it's so stinking old it's just making us all look like fools.
• 

  RevMalk

  Does that make Bill disqualified for his job? I don't think so. Does that make the Silent Lambs look bad? Possible. But remember that Peter denied Jesus 3 times in public, and that didn't make him less qualified for his job.

  Sunshine.....that's a hell of a point....makes perfect sense to me.

  I can understand Bill's frustration as well, if that's the cause/case....and I too wish that this all went down differently. There is something to be said about someone who 'could' do so much to help out, yet refuses to.....Interesting pint.....it's sort of like if I were drowning, and someone refused to take a minute to pull me out of the water. Refusal to do so would mean they WANTED me to drown, or at the very least didn't give a crap.

  Bottom line is, the issue should be dead. The guy doesn't want to help, so be it, it's just not his bag to save innocent children, what can we do?

  I say just forget about it and move on, there's much to do, and so little time to do it. And Englishman. I understand your point about the 'minority', but I thought the beauty of humanity was our 'humane side that we all have the capability to possess. I guess you've pointed out that there are very few running around here that do not carry a selfish attitude toward their fellow man, and that saddens me. But again, what can we do?

  It seems to me, well at least on my part, that the extending a helping hand has helped me heal from ALL the abuses I've endured from the Watchtower Society. And even though not everyone has endured this faze of the abuse, we should realize that some have endured what we have and MORE. that's where our 'humane' side is supposed to come out, but it doesn't for everyone.

  Another point is, we should also realize that not only are the 'minority' ex-jw abuse victims harmed here, but so are potentially thousands of non-jws, and their children. Remember, these people are knocking on YOUR door and millions of others.