Ray Franz And Things That Are Too Hard To Handle.

by Englishman 107 Replies latest jw friends

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  Englishman

  I see that Ray Franz is coming in for a fair bit of criticism due to his apparrant unwillingness to accept that JW's had a problem with the existence of child abuse when he was a member of the GB.

  Also, it would appear that Ray is being chided for his belief in the rule of 2 witnesses before action can be taken against an abuser.

  It seems to me that it is quite likely that Ray wasn't aware that there was a serious abuse problem within the society when he was a member of the GB, if only for the reason that Ray would find such an activity so detestable that he would believe it to be a virtually impossible act for anyone to perpetrate. When we read COC, Ray states that he finds activities such as oral sex between married couples to be absolutely disgusting, and impies that most moral minded people would feel the same way. If he believes that oral sex is for the depraved only, it's easy to see why he would be unwilling to accept that the far worse offence of child abuse was anything more than the remotest event, as opposed to the rampaging disease that it has turned out to be.

  Ray has turned out some very valuable stuff in his time IMHO, as have the likes our Norwegian break-aways, Alan F and all the other authors of articles that reveal the WTBTS for what it really is.

  I personally don't want to devalue one word of what any of them has written just because their ability to adapt to new and changing situations can only reach so far. All of these guys have written according to their strengths and gifts, I say let's not berate them now because some of them find some things just too much too handle. Let's just thank them for the good things that they gave to us and leave them be.

  Englishman.

  Edited by - Englishman on 17 November 2002 12:47:57

  Edited by - Englishman on 17 November 2002 13:20:29
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  minimus

  Eman, I didn't get the impression that Ray Franz had such a strong attitude about oral sex. Are you sure about this? I read his books too.
• 

  Englishman

  Minimus,

  I have lent out my copy of COC, so I can't give the exact reference re oral sex. He does however refer to the act as being disgusting, or similar, I am quite certain of that. Anyone got exact quote available?

  Englishman.
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  Mulan

  Very well said, Michael. That is how I feel too, but you expressed it eloquently!! Thank you.
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  Celia

  page 52 - 4th. edition

  Though I find the sexual practices involved to be definitely contrary to my personal standards, I can honestly say that I did not favor the disfellowshiping decision made by the Body. But that is all that I can say. For when the vote came I conformed to the majority decision. I felt dismayed when the Body assigned me to prepare material in support of the decision, yet I accepted the assignment...

  Edited by - Celia on 17 November 2002 14:8:57
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  kelsey007

  I feel that Mr Franz did well in stating how he, like most here, did things in support of the org that we really did not feel comfortable with.
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  outoftheorg

  On this issue.

  I agree completely with #007 and the English man. All of us it seems have admitted to doing things to support the wbts that we would not do at this stage in our growth.

  In addition, each and everyone is entitled to their own set of beliefs as long as they are not imposed on others.

  Outoftheorg
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  larc

  The quote above is found on page 47 of the 1983 edition. On page 48, it is clear from Ray's writing, that he thought that the sex life of a Witness was a private matter, and the GB was wrong in dictating what people did in the privacy of their bedroom. I can not find anything in his writing where he condemns any sexual practice within marriage or referrs to anything as depraved.
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  core

  Why would Ray lie or misrepresent the situation ? -

  Some points first -

  1 Idont think he (RF) is a saint (as Bill Bowen says mnan do)

  2 His writings COC and SOCF gave me and many a reason to trust our gut instinct and get out of the mnd control of WT

  3 From my own experience spanning several decades I remember how I thought 'this does not apply to us' when we first had instructions on how to handle child abuse - I was unaware then of the problem biut was to become aware of it much later so whilst not on the level of RF I can see how he may have viewed things back then

  4 Does it matter what he thinks on any particular issue- he clearly is a man of principle and moral courage who is also in his 80s so deserves a rest (though he probably still need to work to eat as he will have no pension from WT)

  5 Does everyone who leaves WT have to follow some set pattern or standard or join every revolt against the old order?

  6 For the record I also think Bill Bowen is a man of principal and moral courage who handles matters in his own way, different to Ray Franz but backed by the same instinctive honesty.

  I have experience of handling judicial matters involving child abuse (before I got out of course) and can assure you that (whilst I did everything I could to protect and restore hurt houngsters) I am to this day ridden with guilt for following the party line in all judicial matters, rather than standing up for obvious standards of justice.

  I and Bill Bowen and Ray Franz (I do not consider myself to be the same standing as the them I must point out) are guilty for having misled and miserved the brothers when we were elders - I am sure that like so many others - we tried to handle brothers with compassion and care - in the end the organisation train overwhelmed us - I know it did with me and for that I am truly sorry - I am confident that Bill and Ray are also.
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  SpannerintheWorks

  Why should the GB have any control over personal things anyway? It has NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM!!

  Are they so PERVY that they feel they have a right to pry into people's lives?

  THINK ABOUT IT, IF YOU ARE A WITNESS OUT THERE!!!

  Spanner