Posts by goatshapeddemon

92

Your earliest doubt?

by Apognophos in

this might be an unfair question for those who have been out of the organization for decades, but i'm wondering if any of you remember your earliest doubt -- maybe something odd that occurred to you as a kid (if you were a jw then).

please try to limit to two doubts at the most :-).

i think my first "doubt" was simply realizing that at the time of the flood, every animal that wasn't in the ark died (well, besides the fish, supposedly).

goatshapeddemon

I was a sophomore in high school. I remember it very clearly. It was the first time I ever made friends with anyone "worldly". They were such a great person I couldn't believe God would destroy them just because they weren't a JW.

30

Turnips and the Watchtower

by RoosterMcDooster in

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i know an elder that sprinkles this one into a lot of his talks and comments:.

ifn the society tells us to plant turnips upside down then we should.

goatshapeddemon

My dad said that in bethel they used to hold up the green bible and say, "if the brothers tell you it's brown, brothers, it's brown."

Sick.

12

Advise Needed : Should I stay should I go ?

by raymond frantz in

jw
friends

a year ago i started looking heavily into "apostate" websites ,now after a year i'm convinced that i have been lied to and kept in the dark for so long .i hate going to the meetings having to cope with these disgusting watchtower articles .unfortunatelly my family are still in wife and kids and i have raised them to be good witnesses .i feel betrayed by the watchtower and i'm sure if it wasn't for these evil men in brooklyn 99% of all witnesses that wake up would not have an issue changing all the wrong doctrines .these satanic men who dare call themselves "anointed " have spend almost 40 years, especially since they changed the baptismal vows and after raymond franz's exit ,creating a "prison of the mind" ,if anyone wants to leave they have to kiss goodbye friends ,family and start all over again .what shall i do stay in and try to work against them or leave?

any advice will be appreciated.

goatshapeddemon

Mostly because it's a lost cause. 95% of them are so brainwashed they can't think for themselves and don't recognize truth if it's not found in the wt first. Hard to last long enough incognito if you're trying to take them down in earnest to find 5 in 100. You'll get busted first and then labelled as an apostate, which is worse than being a pedophile in their minds. We've sinned against the holy spirit. They've just sinned against innocent children.

12

Advise Needed : Should I stay should I go ?

by raymond frantz in

jw
friends

a year ago i started looking heavily into "apostate" websites ,now after a year i'm convinced that i have been lied to and kept in the dark for so long .i hate going to the meetings having to cope with these disgusting watchtower articles .unfortunatelly my family are still in wife and kids and i have raised them to be good witnesses .i feel betrayed by the watchtower and i'm sure if it wasn't for these evil men in brooklyn 99% of all witnesses that wake up would not have an issue changing all the wrong doctrines .these satanic men who dare call themselves "anointed " have spend almost 40 years, especially since they changed the baptismal vows and after raymond franz's exit ,creating a "prison of the mind" ,if anyone wants to leave they have to kiss goodbye friends ,family and start all over again .what shall i do stay in and try to work against them or leave?

any advice will be appreciated.

goatshapeddemon

That is a very tough one. :-( so sorry you are alone - it was hard enough for me, and my husband and I did it together.

Here is the good news / bad news. My family was *the pinnacle* jw family in our area. You name the title, one of us had it. Then, Something very horrible was done to my dad (the leader in terms of spirituality and godliness) at the hands of very bad men. He was going to stay and swallow it. I could not. I almost broke up with my fiancé because I knew then that I was done... (but it turned out, he was headed in the same direction - divine intervention?) Both of us were the golden children of our circuits. And suddenly we were faders. My dad at first was furious at my husband (he thought he had created apostate tendencies in me). But over time, with tact and kindness and patience, my mom, dad and brother all saw the light and left too. Same thing with my husband's parents - they haven't left, but they are in full support of our decision and are staying only for convenience. Bad news, his brother, sister and their spouses have 100% shunned us.

All of that to say, it can be done... if you're honest, gentle, kind (and very very patient) about it and the person in question is intellectually honest. It helps if they've been jerked around by the org, but not a requiment. However, some people (like his brother) will refuse to see it even if it's as plain as the nose on their faces. The night we told them we were done with the org and why, ending it with, "our loyalty has to be to the scriptures", they said, "your logic is unassailable, but our loyalty is to the faithful slave". Others (like his sister) would rather bury their heads in the lies and fallacies because the truth about the truth is too hard to accept. You know your family - if you raised them to think for themselves (my parents always said stuff like, "well, that's what we teach but I think that trumpet blast being a convention is malarkey" or whatever), it's worth a shot. Our family has never been more united or less burdened now that we're all out. But my husbands parents basically taught them to believe the watchtower and only because my husband is an intellectual truth seeker did he figure it out. The rest of them are completely blind to TTATT, even though none of them are dumb.

Best of luck - good news is that we'll be here to support you. But that doesn't mean any of it is easy. :-(

28

What Would Be A Big Deal For A JW To Get Them To Really Question The "Truth"???

by minimus in

jw
friends

is there anything??

!.

goatshapeddemon

What Baltar and Ziddina said is exactly right. It has to be the perfect storm. It's what happened to me and my family. A terrible injustice, doubts about the org's love, allowing ourselves to examine other doubts, and then reading the bible purely by itself... Poof. Humpty dumpty couldn't be put back together again. My husband's parents are the only people I know who responded to gentle reasoning and coaxing over time... though they are still "in".

50

If solid proof were suddenly found that the Book of Enoch should be included in the standard Bible, would that pose a problem for the Jehovah's Witnesses in regards to Michael the Archangel as Jesus?

by I_love_Jeff in

if the book of enoch (elaborates and gives mention to 6 more archangels) suddenly became part of the bible due to solid evidence, how would this effect the shakey jw doctrine of michael the archangel as being jesus?

there are six other archangels mentioned in this book; could it be possible, if included in the jw bible, that one of the other archangels could be jesus?

would they excuse it somehow and simply stick with their implicit understanding of jesus=michael?.

goatshapeddemon

Yep, mP, you're correct. And an "inspired" book, quoting a supposedly non-inspired book is just a crock. The Scriptures-Inspired book (ha! haven't heard that in awhile) uses cross-quotation as an important "proof" of cannonicity. But I think the book of Enoch is simply too inconvenient. So I think they get around it by saying that a quote from a book could be inspired without it meaning that the whole book is inspired.

34

What is WTS official apostasy definition?

by Healthworker in

is it possible to criticize wt concerning questions of consience for a witness?

for instant concerning education?

love healthworker.

goatshapeddemon

With respect to higher education Healthworker, specifically, no. My dad got canned for this very issue. And he technically only ever said what the WT official position was: "It is a family decision". But because he allowed his kids to go to college and encouraged other kids who did so and because his kids set a bad example for being such good examples (pioneering, living at home, etc.), he was guilty of independent thinking and was ... err ... relieved of all responsibility (and believe me, prior to that point, he had A LOT).

50

If solid proof were suddenly found that the Book of Enoch should be included in the standard Bible, would that pose a problem for the Jehovah's Witnesses in regards to Michael the Archangel as Jesus?

by I_love_Jeff in

if the book of enoch (elaborates and gives mention to 6 more archangels) suddenly became part of the bible due to solid evidence, how would this effect the shakey jw doctrine of michael the archangel as being jesus?

there are six other archangels mentioned in this book; could it be possible, if included in the jw bible, that one of the other archangels could be jesus?

would they excuse it somehow and simply stick with their implicit understanding of jesus=michael?.

goatshapeddemon

Thanks for the tip! How ridiculously annoying.

Sorry about the dup post.

Funny! If solid proof that the Book of Enoch should be in the canon was found... JWs would have a MUCH bigger problem than Michael the Archangel. I have to say, reading the Book of Enoch was the beginning of the end of my solid faith in the Christian Bible.

50

If solid proof were suddenly found that the Book of Enoch should be included in the standard Bible, would that pose a problem for the Jehovah's Witnesses in regards to Michael the Archangel as Jesus?

by I_love_Jeff in

if the book of enoch (elaborates and gives mention to 6 more archangels) suddenly became part of the bible due to solid evidence, how would this effect the shakey jw doctrine of michael the archangel as being jesus?

there are six other archangels mentioned in this book; could it be possible, if included in the jw bible, that one of the other archangels could be jesus?

would they excuse it somehow and simply stick with their implicit understanding of jesus=michael?.

goatshapeddemon

50

If solid proof were suddenly found that the Book of Enoch should be included in the standard Bible, would that pose a problem for the Jehovah's Witnesses in regards to Michael the Archangel as Jesus?

by I_love_Jeff in

if the book of enoch (elaborates and gives mention to 6 more archangels) suddenly became part of the bible due to solid evidence, how would this effect the shakey jw doctrine of michael the archangel as being jesus?

there are six other archangels mentioned in this book; could it be possible, if included in the jw bible, that one of the other archangels could be jesus?

would they excuse it somehow and simply stick with their implicit understanding of jesus=michael?.