Yeah, @socrates - we've concluded that there may be a god, but he's the god of all mankind (which explains the similarities in religious traditions) as opposed to the "god of the bible".
goatshapeddemon
JoinedPosts by goatshapeddemon
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9
It's Not What You Know...
by Socrateswannabe in...because most of what people are searching for is unknowable!.
the more i use my brain instead of let the wts do my thinking for me, the more i believe that it's impossible to identify truth.
i think we're capable only of identifying what is not true.
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9
It's Not What You Know...
by Socrateswannabe in...because most of what people are searching for is unknowable!.
the more i use my brain instead of let the wts do my thinking for me, the more i believe that it's impossible to identify truth.
i think we're capable only of identifying what is not true.
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goatshapeddemon
Honeybucket - Yes, exactly. But we're agnostic because we can't conclusively prove that there isn't a god either.
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9
It's Not What You Know...
by Socrateswannabe in...because most of what people are searching for is unknowable!.
the more i use my brain instead of let the wts do my thinking for me, the more i believe that it's impossible to identify truth.
i think we're capable only of identifying what is not true.
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goatshapeddemon
We took the same approach... Be warned, it led straight into hands down agnosticism - not what you would have expected from two extremely zealous pioneers. :-S
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92
Your earliest doubt?
by Apognophos inthis might be an unfair question for those who have been out of the organization for decades, but i'm wondering if any of you remember your earliest doubt -- maybe something odd that occurred to you as a kid (if you were a jw then).
please try to limit to two doubts at the most :-).
i think my first "doubt" was simply realizing that at the time of the flood, every animal that wasn't in the ark died (well, besides the fish, supposedly).
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goatshapeddemon
Bob_nc - yep, for me it wasn't the seven bowls... It was the seven trumpet blasts, lol!
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30 and Out?
by Black Man in30 that seems to put jw's at a cross-roads?
i've known so many who have decided to abandon ship at either the age of 30 or either after 30 years of being baptized.
i fall into the former category.
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goatshapeddemon
My husband was 30. I was 25. But I was always old for my age. ;-)
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92
Your earliest doubt?
by Apognophos inthis might be an unfair question for those who have been out of the organization for decades, but i'm wondering if any of you remember your earliest doubt -- maybe something odd that occurred to you as a kid (if you were a jw then).
please try to limit to two doubts at the most :-).
i think my first "doubt" was simply realizing that at the time of the flood, every animal that wasn't in the ark died (well, besides the fish, supposedly).
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goatshapeddemon
I was a sophomore in high school. I remember it very clearly. It was the first time I ever made friends with anyone "worldly". They were such a great person I couldn't believe God would destroy them just because they weren't a JW.
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Turnips and the Watchtower
by RoosterMcDooster in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:donotoptimizeforbrowser /> </w:worddocument> </xml><![endif].
i know an elder that sprinkles this one into a lot of his talks and comments:.
ifn the society tells us to plant turnips upside down then we should.
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goatshapeddemon
My dad said that in bethel they used to hold up the green bible and say, "if the brothers tell you it's brown, brothers, it's brown."
Sick.
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Advise Needed : Should I stay should I go ?
by raymond frantz ina year ago i started looking heavily into "apostate" websites ,now after a year i'm convinced that i have been lied to and kept in the dark for so long .i hate going to the meetings having to cope with these disgusting watchtower articles .unfortunatelly my family are still in wife and kids and i have raised them to be good witnesses .i feel betrayed by the watchtower and i'm sure if it wasn't for these evil men in brooklyn 99% of all witnesses that wake up would not have an issue changing all the wrong doctrines .these satanic men who dare call themselves "anointed " have spend almost 40 years, especially since they changed the baptismal vows and after raymond franz's exit ,creating a "prison of the mind" ,if anyone wants to leave they have to kiss goodbye friends ,family and start all over again .what shall i do stay in and try to work against them or leave?
any advice will be appreciated.
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goatshapeddemon
Mostly because it's a lost cause. 95% of them are so brainwashed they can't think for themselves and don't recognize truth if it's not found in the wt first. Hard to last long enough incognito if you're trying to take them down in earnest to find 5 in 100. You'll get busted first and then labelled as an apostate, which is worse than being a pedophile in their minds. We've sinned against the holy spirit. They've just sinned against innocent children.
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Advise Needed : Should I stay should I go ?
by raymond frantz ina year ago i started looking heavily into "apostate" websites ,now after a year i'm convinced that i have been lied to and kept in the dark for so long .i hate going to the meetings having to cope with these disgusting watchtower articles .unfortunatelly my family are still in wife and kids and i have raised them to be good witnesses .i feel betrayed by the watchtower and i'm sure if it wasn't for these evil men in brooklyn 99% of all witnesses that wake up would not have an issue changing all the wrong doctrines .these satanic men who dare call themselves "anointed " have spend almost 40 years, especially since they changed the baptismal vows and after raymond franz's exit ,creating a "prison of the mind" ,if anyone wants to leave they have to kiss goodbye friends ,family and start all over again .what shall i do stay in and try to work against them or leave?
any advice will be appreciated.
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goatshapeddemon
That is a very tough one. :-( so sorry you are alone - it was hard enough for me, and my husband and I did it together.
Here is the good news / bad news. My family was *the pinnacle* jw family in our area. You name the title, one of us had it. Then, Something very horrible was done to my dad (the leader in terms of spirituality and godliness) at the hands of very bad men. He was going to stay and swallow it. I could not. I almost broke up with my fiancé because I knew then that I was done... (but it turned out, he was headed in the same direction - divine intervention?) Both of us were the golden children of our circuits. And suddenly we were faders. My dad at first was furious at my husband (he thought he had created apostate tendencies in me). But over time, with tact and kindness and patience, my mom, dad and brother all saw the light and left too. Same thing with my husband's parents - they haven't left, but they are in full support of our decision and are staying only for convenience. Bad news, his brother, sister and their spouses have 100% shunned us.
All of that to say, it can be done... if you're honest, gentle, kind (and very very patient) about it and the person in question is intellectually honest. It helps if they've been jerked around by the org, but not a requiment. However, some people (like his brother) will refuse to see it even if it's as plain as the nose on their faces. The night we told them we were done with the org and why, ending it with, "our loyalty has to be to the scriptures", they said, "your logic is unassailable, but our loyalty is to the faithful slave". Others (like his sister) would rather bury their heads in the lies and fallacies because the truth about the truth is too hard to accept. You know your family - if you raised them to think for themselves (my parents always said stuff like, "well, that's what we teach but I think that trumpet blast being a convention is malarkey" or whatever), it's worth a shot. Our family has never been more united or less burdened now that we're all out. But my husbands parents basically taught them to believe the watchtower and only because my husband is an intellectual truth seeker did he figure it out. The rest of them are completely blind to TTATT, even though none of them are dumb.
Best of luck - good news is that we'll be here to support you. But that doesn't mean any of it is easy. :-(
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What Would Be A Big Deal For A JW To Get Them To Really Question The "Truth"???
by minimus inis there anything??
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goatshapeddemon
What Baltar and Ziddina said is exactly right. It has to be the perfect storm. It's what happened to me and my family. A terrible injustice, doubts about the org's love, allowing ourselves to examine other doubts, and then reading the bible purely by itself... Poof. Humpty dumpty couldn't be put back together again. My husband's parents are the only people I know who responded to gentle reasoning and coaxing over time... though they are still "in".