Posts by mindseye

64

What do you replace it with?

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

so... i am coming to the conclusion that pretty much all of the doctrinal stuff that i have believed for 25/30 years is built on a house of cards and it's about to come crashing down.

question is what do i replace it with?.

my intellectual head says that that whole thing is junk and there is almost certainly no god at all.

mindseye

Konceptual, Talesin's advice to study some philosophy is a good place to start. It encourages one to look at things critically, even our basic assumptions about reality and perception.

I also agree with botchtower to think of life as a journey - explore different ideas and experiences. I've explored atheism (Dawkins etc. were provocative reads, but I now find their arguments simplistic), philosophy, theology, eastern spirituality, etc. I practice zen meditation, and find it gives me insight and a sense of peace. But I don't think of any of this as replacing the JW religion. I really don't feel the need for certainty any more. 'Certainty' takes the mystery and fun out of life.

Oh yeah, if you're not ready to give up on God just yet, read Karen Armstrong's 'Case for God'. It's one of the best books that I've read. Armstrong argues that that the childish debates and struggles we have over God are based on how we define God in the first place. It was a real eye-opener for me.

22

This system is not all bad.

by Inisc in

jw
friends

hi, everyone.. for many jws all they ever hear about is how wicked the world is and how it has gotten even worse lately.

the media does not help either.. and even for many ex jws who still have family who are still in, we have to listen to all that doom and gloom about the end of this system.. but, i would just like to recommend a website i found, (not sure if that violates jwn rules) .

its not religious at all, but is a news source of many heartwarming stories and news articles from all over the world that show just how wonderful life and and people can be.. i find it's a great antidote to remind us that the whole world is not wicked and in fact wickedness is still in the minority!.

mindseye

Jeffro, I also agree that the system that JWs hope for is a delusion. To get a little Buddhist about it, JWs attachment to suffering springs from their desire for a reality that is not.

As for the Witness argument that things are getting 'so bad' in societal terms, I say it's a simplistic argument to begin with. Sure, some things are getting bad. There's a certain sense of alienation about the postmodern world that leads some people to shoot up a theatre or temple, for instance. Also, for the first time in history, you have drastically different cultures and communities living side by side, and this leads to conflict. But even if much is 'getting bad', it doesn't mean the JWs are right about reality.

On the flipside, life expectancy is longer than every before, comfort level is better, and health is better (in much of the world, anyway). At one time, even minor dental problems could lead to death. And as far as society is concerned, the world is a much better place than 50 years ago if you're a woman, black person, or gay person.

14

Jehovah's Witnesses vs. Pharisees

by processor in

also here: http://eng.svhelden.info/?page_id=22.

similarities between pharisees and jehovahs witnesses.

pharisees .

mindseye

Great post, processor! I have it marked for future reading. I've often remarked that the JWs are like the Pharisees, and your post goes into great detail with direct parallels.

Designs - I understand your point as well. I've often read that the Pharisees as depicted in the NT do not represent the actual school, and this depiction contributed to anti-semitism through the ages. Still, to the JWs that I know, 'Pharisee' is simply a buzzword for a self-righteous, hypocritical, rule-obsessed dogmatism. Ironically, the JW religion reflects this - so comparing them to Pharisees is a good tool to use in debates with them.

54

The reason I just can't believe in god

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

for the first time in ages though, i actually re-evaluated my position on god/wt.. i had attended a few funerals in the spring and had also reignited some friendships with people from the hall.

but actually, i just keep going round in circles in my mind.

i cannot back an organisation with such a flawed past and one that endorses such policies as shunning & blood.

mindseye

On the issue of suffering and evil, evil comes from God. It says it right there in Isaiah 45:7 (there are theological 'explanations' for this verse, but I find them reaching). Also, read Job.

If God is the 'ground of being' in which everything we experience comes from, then evil resides there also. Good also comes from God. Both Satan and Jesus eminate from God. You can't have good without evil, no matter how hard you try.

24

Christ's Intent

by jgnat in

i was recently challenged by someone who sincerely believed they were speaking for christ.

if christ spoke dire warnings to those who would not follow him, can't his mouthpiece do the same today?

there are so many assumptions tied along that road i barely know how to start.

mindseye

I worried for some time about the conflict between where reason was taking me, and where my heart soars. Now I allow both full rein.

That's a good place to be, as I think most of us are both spiritual and rational creatures. I also think there's a place in religious experience where mystery should have it's hold.

When one tries to make a religion into an almost-scientific enterprise, we get the sort of contrived, overly systematic theology like C.T. Russell was pursuing. Russell wanted everything wrapped up in a little package, with no loose ends. Most of today's fundamentalists are the same way. I think it ends up in a dry, sterile spirituality.

The reality is, the prophecies in the Bible apply to the people in their own times. Fundamentalists love to take the prophetic words of Jesus and others out of context and apply it to us. But I think the real spiritual meaning comes from how Jesus lead his life and treated those around him - not trying to decipher every word that he said like it was some cosmic algebra problem.

17

This topic is for Christians......

by Phizzy in

the very first followers of jesus were drawn to him no doubt for a variety of reasons, but stayed mainly because they had taken on board the faith that he held.. they witnessed him and his faith in action, so they came to believe as he did.. long after his death, and the death of most, if not all, of those that knew him, this gradually transformed from holding the same faith as him, to having a belief in him.

this resulted in claims for his divinity etc.

my question to you is, is it not more important that you hold the same faith as he did, rather than the much vaunted belief in him, because you cannot be "in union" with him if your faith differs from his, surely ?.

mindseye

james woods wrote: if Jesus really was the son of God (or God personified) - and he KNEW it, how could he be said to have had "faith"?

It isn't "faith", really, if you know something to be true by actual experience...

Right on. Jesus' spirituality was based on knowledge that he was God, not faith. The idea that we are all God is found in the Hindu Upanishads. I think that Jesus realized this through a mystic experience, but expressed it through the monotheistic theology of his culture.

Phizzy wrote: My question to you is, is it not more important that you hold the same faith as he did, rather than the much vaunted belief in him, because you cannot be "in union" with him if your faith differs from his, surely ?

I think a better word than faith is gnosis, or 'spiritual knowledge.' There were early Christians we now call gnostics, who wanted to share the Jesus 'experience.' As you say, this was "in union" with him instead of mere faith.

28

Self-Actualization

by frankiespeakin in

while i have come across this term before i never looked up what it meant.

so while reading about what "peak expreiences" are i came across the term again and decide to give wiki a try.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/self-actualization.

self-actualization is a term that has been used in various psychology theories, often in slightly different ways.

mindseye

Doofdaddy, I just googled that and it looks interesting as hell. I've got some reading up to do. Thanks.

12

E-Watchman on Unbelievable podcast

by mindseye in

jw
friends

there's this podcast, unbelievable, that i've been listening to.

it's from britian, and usually has debates between atheists and christians, or between christians of varying beliefs.

anyway, the host; justin brierly; has been trying to get a jw on his show for a while, but to no avail.

mindseye

blond-moment wrote: It's the simple pleasures in life. I am getting a kick out of hearing Robert get flustered, voice raising, etc. I love the "Jesus is Michael the Archangel" I can almost see him stomp his foot haha.

Yeah, they totally nailed him on the "Jesus is Michael" thing (easy, as there is no biblical basis for that connection). He really gets flustered when the other guest asks him "So in heaven, do angels worship angels?" LOL

yada yada 2 wrote: Pathetic seeing someone who publicly exposes how rotten to the core the organisation is still defend it publicly.

I am still getting up to date on this character known as the e-watchman and his idiosyncratic stance. From what I understand, he still holds to the core Witness doctrines, yet thinks the organization is corrupt? In any case he seems 'captive to the concept', not being able to explore the Bible and other ideas outside of the narrow Witness mindset.

29

Surprising 5 graduate degrees that don't pay off

by Scott77 in

5 graduate degrees that don't pay offby kathryn hawkins bankrate.com .

123456>5 graduate degrees that don't pay offin today's tough job market, many recent college graduates are enrolling in graduate programs to enhance their credentials and gain an edge with hiring managers.

in some cases, the tactic may lead to lucrative job opportunities.

mindseye

I know several plumbers making 6 figures a year and they are happy.

Yes, I know some too. And yes, they make big $$$$.

But I would tell a young person to do whatever they love. If they love plumbing, get a license. If they love cooking, go into culinary. If they love philosophy, get a degree. Love slinging a mop? Be the best janitor around. Seriously, life is too short to do something you're not passionate about. And people that do what they love get good at it, and usually make buck anyway.

28

Self-Actualization

by frankiespeakin in

while i have come across this term before i never looked up what it meant.

so while reading about what "peak expreiences" are i came across the term again and decide to give wiki a try.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/self-actualization.

self-actualization is a term that has been used in various psychology theories, often in slightly different ways.

mindseye

Thanks for the response, Farkel. Most psychologists would probably say that their profession has come a long way since Freud. With cognitive psychology, the biological underpinnings of neuroscience play a much bigger part. Still, I still think the old guys like Freud, Jung, and Maslow give many good insights that resonate on an intuitive level. That Freud was into coke and Jung talked to spirits never bothered me much - their neurotic experiences probably informed their psychology more than anything else.

Whether psychology 'works' depends on the person and the psychologist. Some people I know have had some major breakthroughs with therapy. Others not so much. I agree with you that sometimes the psychologist just serves as the 'shoulder to cry on'. Maybe this is not such a bad thing. Friends can serve a similar function, but they're usually too emotionally involved to offer any unbiased assessment of a situation.