Posts by sizemik

55

Read a story of child neglect and abuse among JWs in S. Africa that was sent to me.

by AndersonsInfo in

i regard the information below as true until proven false because of corresponding with a young man in s. africa for a few years whose story i posted on my website: http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/stories/caleb.html, "freedom from an unsafe haven, by caleb.

" although some of the accounts of abuse of children in s. africa in the story below are older, calab wrote me details of abusive treatment meted out to young people in his area that he chose not to put in his story for fear he could be identified.

calab in now in university in another part of africa and very happy after breaking the chains that engulfed his mind.. barbara.

sizemik

I would add that there is a consistent mistake that American types make when judging other cultures, namely, they try to hold them to the same standards. . . . metatron

Agreed . . . people prefer to judge matters through the lenses of their own experience. A few moments reading similar accounts and other references to the differences in environment, culture, language and perception is too much for some. To do so might scuttle an opportunity to decry roundly . . . and that just wouldn't do now would it?

If you check into early US/British history, you find out things weren't that different. . . . metatron

You want people to actually check something for themselves? . . . a nice sentiment . . . but a big "If".

43

I feel sad when someone relatively new on this board signs off because they have been offended by some posters comments

by smiddy in

jw
friends

many people who" become jw`s" through the ministry are people who are , at the time , in a vulnerable state.

{ lets face it had you been in your right mind you would never have accepted it right ?}.

many of the people who are" born in" are by that very fact vulnerable they never had a chance and were indoctrinated from an early age .. of course their going to have a lot of issues to deal with that history shows can take many years to shake off,if at all.. all i`m saying is i think we should give people a lot more space,and allow them to see the bigger picture that we can show them on this site,give them time to absorb the information thats available on this site,some of the things you learn here is a bit much to take in at first,beleive me i`ve been their .

sizemik

But one thing I've seen over and over again is that anytime a group of people interact, someone always comes along to "stir the anthill" by injecting something controversial or their own personal drama. It doesn't matter if the subject matter is something as mundane as how to quilt afghan blankets, someone still comes along asking about politics, religion, or relationship advice or drops in to troll and says afghan blankets suck. Someone (usually new) plays the protagonist role, there are then several antagnosists and apologists regulars who argue back and forth. A few posters try to be "the voice of reason" and play referee, and what they say usually gets lost in the shuffle. If the board is heavily moderated, the thread is locked and if it's not, it usually devolves into a group of monkeys slinging feces at each other, and anybody else who happens to "walk by" the thread. Regardless, everybody gets worked up about it. . . . Razziel

LOL . . . a perfect description of JWN. Makes you wonder why we bother. What gets me is that some posters start a thread with links and references . . . only for the nay-saying attention seekers to hit the thread sniping first, asking questions later. You can tell they've only skim read the article and not bothered with the links or doing any research because they're posting in a matter of minutes.

They don't stop to consider for even a moment . . . the prospect of a new stage for their self-interested attention-seeking is too good to turn down. They just want to be noticed. Sadly, many of the more value-adding posters quickly move on . . . or are sucked in to endless pointless exchanges with these turd-flies. When a poster raises the issue through an announced withdrawal . . . the same old flies appear with either new doses of hate . . . or some lame self-justification. This too is life . . . so they say.

55

Read a story of child neglect and abuse among JWs in S. Africa that was sent to me.

by AndersonsInfo in

i regard the information below as true until proven false because of corresponding with a young man in s. africa for a few years whose story i posted on my website: http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/stories/caleb.html, "freedom from an unsafe haven, by caleb.

" although some of the accounts of abuse of children in s. africa in the story below are older, calab wrote me details of abusive treatment meted out to young people in his area that he chose not to put in his story for fear he could be identified.

calab in now in university in another part of africa and very happy after breaking the chains that engulfed his mind.. barbara.

sizemik

Well I've read it several times now, including the links provided and I just don't see what you and BP do I'm afraid. It's a very comprehensive description of what life was like for this person, and includes details when taken in isolation do not constitute abuse, but still form part of the overall description . . . and that is acknowledged and commented on by the writer. If you choose to pick out comments made and present them as not constituting abuse, fine. I still hold to my opinion that this was not an attempt to sensationalise and throw filthy blankets over anyone . . . simply one mans perception of growing up JW in SA.

And do I have to have my motive questioned because my opinion differs from yours? I'm not being mischevious about anything.

Perhaps I could ask you this question . . . if the writer had registered here himself, and posted his observations, rather than going through Barbara . . . would you have labelled it "sensationalist" and a filthy blanket-hurling exercise? If so, perhaps you should read this thread again . . .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/221745/1/I-feel-sad-when-someone-relatively-new-on-this-board-signs-off-because-they-have-been-offended-by-some-posters-comments

It's a personal testimony, not worthy of such a hostile response IMHO.

43

I feel sad when someone relatively new on this board signs off because they have been offended by some posters comments

by smiddy in

jw
friends

many people who" become jw`s" through the ministry are people who are , at the time , in a vulnerable state.

{ lets face it had you been in your right mind you would never have accepted it right ?}.

many of the people who are" born in" are by that very fact vulnerable they never had a chance and were indoctrinated from an early age .. of course their going to have a lot of issues to deal with that history shows can take many years to shake off,if at all.. all i`m saying is i think we should give people a lot more space,and allow them to see the bigger picture that we can show them on this site,give them time to absorb the information thats available on this site,some of the things you learn here is a bit much to take in at first,beleive me i`ve been their .

sizemik

LOL . . . I've noticed that vamp . . . you vampire you.

I've noticed if a negative post hits the board early in the thread, it invites further negativity sometimes. Some skepticism is just based on ignorance or prejudice and is dammed irritating. For a newbie it can be a door slammer. A bit more benefit of the doubt doesn't make you look gullible . . . just reasonable. As other posters have noted . . . age differences mean different communication styles. Young people sounding young, or older ones sounding elderly, or shy ones sounding shy, shouldn't be seen as an easy target.

63

dirty trick at the meeting re facebook

by Aussie Oz in

jw
friends

my daughter told me about last weeks service meeting part on facebook.... the brother doing the parts asked for a show of hands who had a facebook account.. apparently a number of elders did.. (she did not put up her hand...in fact recently deleted all jws off her friends because she doesnt want them to know anything about her life).

i thought that was a dirty trick to pull.. oz.

.

sizemik

Not putting up your hand is not lying . . . it's just witholding the truth from those who are not entitled to it.

48

12% of JWs Think Gay Is OK? Really?

by metatron in

jw
friends

i was reading pat buchanan's book, "suicide of a superpower".

on page 71, he speaks about the growing acceptance of homosexuality amidst religions.

he claims that 12% of jw's think gay behavior is ok.. really?

sizemik

Hey . . . dj a quick scan of your post tells me you've got a lot to say to me. Seriously, I don't have the time it requires to pick the bones out of exactly what that is right now. Living in a disaster area stuffs me for time occasionally.

My post wasn't directed to you personally apart from a hello. I'm sorry if the use of the word drivel was misleading. There are some things you state I probably agree with, others probably not. My post was more in response to the question posed in the OP. I was a JW long enough to see for myself how gays fared . . . or didn't. Two I knew very well suicided before their 18th birthday. Additionally, I've met quite a few on this board whom I have no reason to doubt.

I know of one who was around fifty when finally gaining relief from the self-condemnation . . . by getting out. Another young man here, TimothyT has stood tall, and now his Elder Father has seen fit to ditch the lies as well. He won't mind me mentioning him by name because he has nothing to be ashamed of and every reason to be proud. I'm proud of him. There have been others through here . . . and others who never made it.

My response was based on this as much as thread content. The thread title infers incredulity at the thought of a significant portion of JW's "being OK" with being gay. I don't . . . and the points I raised are the chief (but not only) reasons why. They're opinion based on personal observation and quite substantial anecdotal evidence. Call it a stunt if it helps . . . but ease up on the hostility and imputing motives dude . . . it's my opinion OK?

48

12% of JWs Think Gay Is OK? Really?

by metatron in

jw
friends

i was reading pat buchanan's book, "suicide of a superpower".

on page 71, he speaks about the growing acceptance of homosexuality amidst religions.

he claims that 12% of jw's think gay behavior is ok.. really?

sizemik

Out of all the drivel comes two facts worth noting.

JW's cannot be grouped in with mainstream. They are a high control, new-age fundamentalist group with roots in Adventism (a doomsday cult in streetspeak). The current expression of the religion displays higher than ever levels of mind-control techniques. Any survey would have to be exclusive.

It doesn't matter whether Buchanan said or whoever . . . the true gay poulation among JW's is likely close to 12%. While survey results vary wildly depending on demographic . . . this is easily within the mean% of the gay population as a whole (as TimothyT jokingly alluded to). Active JW's who are gay need to overcome a massive personal cognitive dissonance which has to be dealt with.

I knew two teenagers who were unable to achieve this. Whether we accept it or not . . . they are there . . . if only for a short while. You can condemn them any which way you desire . . . just don't ask them to condemn themselves.

ED: Hello djeggnog . . . I was worried something had happened to you. Nice to have you back.

55

Read a story of child neglect and abuse among JWs in S. Africa that was sent to me.

by AndersonsInfo in

i regard the information below as true until proven false because of corresponding with a young man in s. africa for a few years whose story i posted on my website: http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/stories/caleb.html, "freedom from an unsafe haven, by caleb.

" although some of the accounts of abuse of children in s. africa in the story below are older, calab wrote me details of abusive treatment meted out to young people in his area that he chose not to put in his story for fear he could be identified.

calab in now in university in another part of africa and very happy after breaking the chains that engulfed his mind.. barbara.

sizemik

If, as the author sensationally alleges, South Africa is rife with all manner of sexual and repressive behaviours within families, who can blame JW parents scrupulously ensuring their children are protected from these social ills?

For a start . . . I don't see your own statement of "sensational accusations" from this author trying to "cast a filthy pile of blankets over the WTS" as being derived from any greater imposition of "facts" than the author you demand them from. It's very much sensationalism in itself. So don't demand standards you obviously have no intention of applying to yourself.

And you're right . . . you of all people should know very well that the imposition of strict association limitation, is not derived from a true desire to protect children, but rather a WTS imposed cult tactic . . . and is in itself a form of child abuse. To attribute some higher moral virtue to it is absolute nonsense.

If every individual who endeavoured to tell his story of his WTS experience had to meet your standards of proof and a pre-requisite to "win you over with the facts", no story would ever be told. There is not a single abused child who can prove what happened to them . . . not without witnesses or an admission from the abuser . . . both of which are about as rare as rockinghorse shit.

The high tolerance of abusive practices in SA lends weight . . . not doubt . . . to the authors claims. In the midst of such an environment, one would expect the JW's to shine even brighter as a beacon of Christian virtue. Rather it appears to be license to behave in an even more depraved manner than their JW counterparts from other lands.

55

Read a story of child neglect and abuse among JWs in S. Africa that was sent to me.

by AndersonsInfo in

i regard the information below as true until proven false because of corresponding with a young man in s. africa for a few years whose story i posted on my website: http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/stories/caleb.html, "freedom from an unsafe haven, by caleb.

" although some of the accounts of abuse of children in s. africa in the story below are older, calab wrote me details of abusive treatment meted out to young people in his area that he chose not to put in his story for fear he could be identified.

calab in now in university in another part of africa and very happy after breaking the chains that engulfed his mind.. barbara.

sizemik

Steve2 . . . some of your responses totally baffle me.

You accuse the author of having ". . . a vested interest in casting a filthy pile of blankets . . . that range from rape and molestation . . . " on the WTS . . . and then project the blame to external social influences. You then lambast the author again for not launching a one-man campaign, appealing to the golden chalice of "South African law" and not providing slabs of evidence for your own personal judicial mental construct.

Why do these practices need to become "more prevalent than among other religious sectors" before they are considered unacceptable. We know these practices are prevalent among JW's . . . and this man's personal account simply confirms, that in this particular country, things are no different . . . possibly worse.

I certainly don't accept that the authors motive is to "tantalise readers for their amusement." I for one am neither shocked, tantalised, nor amused. And when did South Africa leave the "western world" . . . they're a long way west of NZ.

I feel that there are a number of self-appointed, pseudo-intellectual, self-aggrandising posters here, who see certain subjects (and posters) as merely a stage for their contra-by-default, attention-seeking dissent.

Just remember this . . . the greatest ally to those that have suffered at the hands of the WTS . . . is that in telling their story, nobody believed them. They couldn't provide "satisfactory" proof. Perhaps you would like him to produce his "two witnesses?"

74

Goodbye, everyone.

by Chemical Emotions in

jw
friends

some of you were really nice.

some of you were really mean to me, and at this point in my life i can't handle such meanness.

i thought this would be my one place to truly express my feelings without too much mocking or insults from people who i thought were nicer, but i was wrong.

sizemik

It's not time to make a change . . . just relax and take it easy.

You're still young . . . that's your fault . . . there's so much you have to know.