The very fact that some of you get upset over my criticism of the mighty HASSAN is troubling.
Geez dude . . . you label him a "cult leader" and "full of shit" . . . and now the "mighty" Hassan. We all have biases, but attacking the messenger with ad-hominems doesn't qualify as criticism in an intelligent debate . . . and severely damages your credibility. That should be of greater concern to you.
OTWO . . . well put.
i have pioneered every time i possibly could, gave talks... i was a good jw!
but for over 40 years, i had nagging doubts about the character of god.
to make a long story short, i'm now a happy atheist!
Evolution has hits and misses - and when you think about the numbers, like the fact that up to 98% of all the species that have ever lived are now extinct, you get an idea of how random the process is.
Humankind finds it hard to recognise and identify it's own evolutionary flaws. We see through a filtered superiority . . . as if we are some pinnacle of evolutionary achievement. This is reinforced by long held religious concepts . . . where the flaws just become "sin" . . . and that sinless = perfect. It's a quaint notion in it's simplicity . . . but completely at odds with evolution.
We see ourselves as highly socially developed. In reality, by the most basic measurable results, Humans are the least successful among the primates as a social creature. There are many other "social" species (those who rely on social structures for survival) who are socially more successful than humans. It is this lack of successful socialisation that will eventually consign homo sapien to the 98%.
i'm not sure how long it's been up, but jwfacts has written his own article discussing the sparlock debacle - and it's a great piece of work.. here is the link.... http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/sparlock.php.
in the article he uses a fantastic quote from a 1994 awake!
magazine which reads as follows.... .
Fyi cedars i wasnt responding to you.....
No . . . you were responding to me. Unlike you, I have no desire to point out the obvious.
well i figured i should give you all an update.
they will be dfing me soon for apostasy.
it is not a huge surprise and i am not afraid nor "shaking in my boots", however i will admit it is stressful right now.
Then I prayed aloud for the three brothers, asking that Jehovah forgive them for stoning me. The chairman tried to stop me at first but I continued to pray and he quieted down. I asked that God help me not to have hatred in my heart for these men because they have been misled by the Watchtower Corporation.
Nice work Ray. There's something quite inspiring about the way you did that . . . you spoke in language they could relate to. Offering prayer forced them to listen without interruptions . . . who can prevent a man from praying? (especially when it is on their behalf?). You didn't relinquish the moral high ground (as they see it) to them and rightly so . . . it doesn't belong to them.
i've been a little busy recently.
but in accordance with some of you (and against the advice of many of you)....i did send my 607 research to my fil.
his response is below.
outsmartthesystem . . . it might not be what you had in mind . . . but the previous two posters are right.
Debating doctrine, policies, mistakes, scandals etc., just doesn't get through. A shutter goes up like one of those bank-teller anti-robber shields . . . your lips are moving but they can't hear you. The best it will produce is a stand-off, an uneasy truce . . . at worst (and most likely), you will quickly be viewed as an active apostate and dangerous. That wall can then become rather permanent . . . without options. It's not a hand you necessarily have to play now.
Give 00DAD's suggestion on simplicity some serious thought. A strongly held position can still be articulated briefly with a kind tone . . . and probably has a better chance of being actually absorbed. Parties end up less "entrenched" than with a protracted challenge on multiple issues. Relationships soured unecessarily can work against us. Been there.
It depends what you wish to achieve for your particular circumstances . . .
i'm not sure how long it's been up, but jwfacts has written his own article discussing the sparlock debacle - and it's a great piece of work.. here is the link.... http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/sparlock.php.
in the article he uses a fantastic quote from a 1994 awake!
magazine which reads as follows.... .
At the end of the day, everyone should ask WHAT YOU hope to accomplish here on JWN: are you trying to expose TTATT in an honest and objective manner, or are you airing your personal anger and venting against the Society, or is there some other agenda?
You need to understand something . . .
People come here for a wide variety of reasons . . . but one of the chief benefits of this place is that it provides support for some very hurt and angry people. Their only "agenda" is survival. Some don't choose to vent . . . they need to. But you have absolutely no appreciation of that because you've never been a JW. What doesn't help is lurkers feeling that any contribution they might offer will get the venomous treatment you dish out. You can't reply to an opposing opinion without using a thinly veiled insult.
If the accurate conveyance of TTATT is your passion . . . start a website of your own. If you have a beef with Cedars . . . he has his own site where you can make your points. This is a site for all Ex-JW's with a stated goal of being "friendly and welcoming" for that reason. It's not the headquarters of TATT, nor is it simply a stage for you to perform on. There is plenty you don't know.
You probably like quotes, so I'll share this piece of advice Lord Chesterfield shared with his son . . .
I don't really care what your agenda is . . . but here on JWN, the good Dr is healing nobody.
well.....i am now officially on the precipice of divorce.
it started last tuesday night.
my wife brings the kids home at 10:00 pm after the meeting....then dinner....then ice cream.
FYI - I emailed my lawyer with a copy of the child custody brochure today. It broke my heart to do it.....but I had to.
Good move OSTS . . . listen carefully to any input from that source. Not only for having your legal rights made clear, but also to hear how an outsider sees things. Don't fear worldly specialists and ask questions freely . . . they well help you keep a balanced view. The JW's are the ones to watch.
i really do not understand how any can be athiests from thinking real hard about it.
how can you think everything on this earth just happened?.
from my understanding, to be athiest, this is pretty much how it goes.
How can you think everything on this earth just happened?
Because it did . . . it's here to prove it. Every detail of exactly how, is not yet known. But there are many facts with which to build a basic picture.
You make the mistake of expecting Atheism to provide an answer for everything . . . only religion can do that. Atheism is not some sort of alternative faith . . . there are many unanswered questions. Atheism simply rejects religions' answers to those questions . . . hence the name.
Clear as mud?
i have pioneered every time i possibly could, gave talks... i was a good jw!
but for over 40 years, i had nagging doubts about the character of god.
to make a long story short, i'm now a happy atheist!
It takes courage . . . you must cross a void where you believe nothing.
i'm not sure how long it's been up, but jwfacts has written his own article discussing the sparlock debacle - and it's a great piece of work.. here is the link.... http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/sparlock.php.
in the article he uses a fantastic quote from a 1994 awake!
magazine which reads as follows.... .
They are too smart for that, and this way can claim publically to being misinterpretted and misrepresented. . . . jwfacts
Yeah . . . and then they'll drag the Awake quote out again to show how moderate their "official" stance is. We all know how different it works at congo level. You get taken off mikes LOL. Control 101. Easy peasy.
Of course they're tightening control . . . because their fear of losing it is high at this time. We all know the reasons why that is as well.
The video is in keeping with that trend in the opinion of the OP. I agree with that opinion. They've got a serious retention problem with Witness children disappearing and the shunning it generates is causing all kinds of problems for them, not to mention the current rate of scandals. It's all bad noise . . . and has a big effect. Many here have claimed scandals and scandalous behaviour has prompting them to first question.
The WTS response is basically to demand more obedience through stricter control and seperation from outside influence. Not too imaginative what what can you expect? What else can they do?
The next step for a kid like Caleb is gaming . . . and that'll take him to hell and back in no time. The control for children must begin early . . . and you can't alter standards on them later. There's a reason for this angle relating to their indoctrination and retention. It will probably work on some.
@KS . . . being aware of your distaste for ad hominem . . . I'll simply thank you for the quick-fire diagnosis of my critical thinking skills. Don't send a bill.
I've learned that you lead horsies, but can't make em' drink.
Heard of this one? You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Perhaps the good Dr's bedside manner has retired also.
