it was the point i decided to become agnostic.
i found my final stumbling block in my search for god.
i asked (myself as well as others): why would god create carnivorous animals before sin?
Pom: Excellent explanation -- best I've ever heard in fact. Is this the sequence as you understand it:
1) God creates spirit world.
2) Spirit world rebels.
3) God creates physical world.
4) Spirit world introduces sin into physical world.
Did Satan corrupt God's creation before A&E or did God make it that way?
it was the point i decided to become agnostic.
i found my final stumbling block in my search for god.
i asked (myself as well as others): why would god create carnivorous animals before sin?
Pom: Interesting perspective. Do you believe that God purposely introduced killing into the animal world?
IslandWoman: So you feel that man and beast ate only vegetation up to the flood. I used to believe something similar. Gumby mentioned the dinosaurs. My main question is why God created dinosaurs and other animals with sharp teeth and claws that are most suited for meat-eating?
siegswife: Well put.
Edited by - LucidSky on 27 October 2002 23:31:15
it was the point i decided to become agnostic.
i found my final stumbling block in my search for god.
i asked (myself as well as others): why would god create carnivorous animals before sin?
Pom, did God intend for the animals to eat each other or did they choose to do it on their own? What was wrong in creation?
IslandWoman: I was trying to take the typical Christian usage of "sin and "good". I remember passages in the Bible that suggest the carnivores would eat straw and hay.
Edited by - LucidSky on 27 October 2002 13:27:46
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if i had to answer this i suppose i would say im not sure which one i believe, i have always wondered why the universe is so huge and always wondered what its role is and how it affects us.. im always fascinated when i look up at the sky and think to myself i feel so small in such a huge universe a sought of cold isolated feeling is what i experience and then i think, i wonder why this planet came to support life after all it was supposedly all happened by chance.. dont get me wrong im no scientist but i think i need more convincing regarding evolution.. can anyone help regarding these questions
Clash.
You can check any decent college-level biology book. I first found out reading a Creationist book which called this process "micro-evolution" (as opposed to "macro evolution").
I'm not sure of everything you said, but this stood out to me the most:
He has to start with a man is in the center of the universe man is the mesure starting point
What do you mean by this and why?
My point in providing the species examples was: if a species can change into another species, isn't that evolution?
it was the point i decided to become agnostic.
i found my final stumbling block in my search for god.
i asked (myself as well as others): why would god create carnivorous animals before sin?
It was the point I decided to become agnostic. I found my final stumbling block in my search for God. I asked (myself as well as others): Why would God create carnivorous animals before sin? But I never got an answer. And then I soon realized that just maybe, God wasn't completely "good".
"since the autumn of 1878, there has been a very clearly marked difference of opinion on the subjects of atonement, resurrection and restitution.
while we have not felt disposed to disfellowship anyone on account of a difference of opinion on these things, or for any other opinion as long as we are satisfied of the christian integrity of brethren, there has been difference enough to prevent the same hearty co-operation as formerly, especially as there has been manifested a disposition to urge these disputed points as test questions.
paul and barnabas separated in their work for a reason not half so important, but christ was not divided, and we do not read of either one calling each other hard names or disfellowshipping each other as christians.
The quote WAS a JW thing....it was from CT himself. He's the one that started the movement....remember?
I think the Bible Students would disagree:
Isn't Charles Taze Russell the Founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses?
http://www.biblestudents.net/faq/questions.htm
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if i had to answer this i suppose i would say im not sure which one i believe, i have always wondered why the universe is so huge and always wondered what its role is and how it affects us.. im always fascinated when i look up at the sky and think to myself i feel so small in such a huge universe a sought of cold isolated feeling is what i experience and then i think, i wonder why this planet came to support life after all it was supposedly all happened by chance.. dont get me wrong im no scientist but i think i need more convincing regarding evolution.. can anyone help regarding these questions
Hey Clash.
There have been many instances of observed speciation, as listed on talkorgins.org:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
The common example listed in my Biology book is wheat. Plants tend to create new species through polyploidism, so speciation this way is easier than in animals.
Another interesting phenomenon you may want to investigate is called a "ring species". This is a species that is distributed in such a way that members next to each other are capable of interbreeding, but the endpoints (usually in a geographic line or circle) are not due do accumulated genetic differences.
Another observation which suggests partial speciation might be the horse and donkey. These similar species probably had a common ancestor in the not-too-distant past which could be evidenced by interbreeding them. The resulting offspring is infertile and shows that these animals have now become two different species.
Minor evolution even within the human species can be observed by correlating skin/hair color to sun intensity (distance from the equator). Although ease of travel has somewhat skewed this now.
LucidSky
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if i had to answer this i suppose i would say im not sure which one i believe, i have always wondered why the universe is so huge and always wondered what its role is and how it affects us.. im always fascinated when i look up at the sky and think to myself i feel so small in such a huge universe a sought of cold isolated feeling is what i experience and then i think, i wonder why this planet came to support life after all it was supposedly all happened by chance.. dont get me wrong im no scientist but i think i need more convincing regarding evolution.. can anyone help regarding these questions
Clash and others -- would any creationist deny that the formation of new species is evolution at work? Here you have one species which splits into two. A perfect example of minor evolutionary change. This says nothing about the scale of change that is possible or whether God is involved in the process, but it at least PROVES evolution has merit on a small scale.
Edited by - LucidSky on 25 October 2002 9:44:47
any of you evolutionists ever crunch the numbers?
Edited by - LucidSky on 20 October 2002 18:55:30
any of you evolutionists ever crunch the numbers?
The biggest threat to (the Christian) God isn't evolution... it's morality. Whether you're a special creationist or theistic evolutionist, why would God create carnivorous animals before sin was ever introduced into the universe?
Edited by - LucidSky on 20 October 2002 18:57:14
