all historical and archeological evidence aside, the biggest evidence that convinced me evolution is factual is speciation (also called "micro-evolution").
this is the transformation of one species into two such that the two can no longer interbreed.
there is no need for historical evidence to prove this -- cases of speciation have actually been observed.
Hey Orbit! Same here. It astounds me every time I think about it.
Hooberus: At one time I only believed in micro-evolution. The jump in system complexity and intelligent design seemed too great to achieve through incremental evolutionary processes. But I have since changed my mind based on the evidence. Like, rem mentioned, where can we draw the line if species continue to change?
what does creationism explain?.
what does it predict?.
what about blind cave fish with residual eyes.
...the gulls are still gulls, the wablers are still warblers, the salamanders are still salamanders.
The species stays the same...kind variety within the species.
I wasn't suggesting a huge leap of change between these species. But there is change. And one other critical difference -- they can no longer interbreed. Two species from one is evolution at the species level.
been doing some thinking and i've had an epiphany.
in the course of meeting a girl and getting to know her, it's not what you say, it's what you don't say.
some guys, including myself on a few occasions, get so smitten by a girl they go over the top and say stupid shit.
True enough troucul. It took me awhile to realize things like that too -- it stems from the noble thought that that being "nice" was the way to make someone like you the most. You did two good things that people like: remaining a challenge for her and showing sincere interest in her instead of yourself. Let's face it, people want what they don't have and they are self-centered (hopefully not completely!)
all historical and archeological evidence aside, the biggest evidence that convinced me evolution is factual is speciation (also called "micro-evolution").
this is the transformation of one species into two such that the two can no longer interbreed.
there is no need for historical evidence to prove this -- cases of speciation have actually been observed.
All historical and archeological evidence aside, the biggest evidence that convinced me evolution is factual is speciation (also called "micro-evolution"). This is the transformation of one species into two such that the two can no longer interbreed. There is no need for historical evidence to prove this -- cases of speciation have actually been observed. Speciation is conclusive evidence that evolution is true, even though it says little regarding the scale of evolution's influence. As a side note evolutionary theory says nothing about the existence of God, although it would suggest that God did not directly create every single species. There are a number of Christians who believe in evolution to varying degrees.
what does creationism explain?.
what does it predict?.
what about blind cave fish with residual eyes.
Pom: Regarding ring species -- what do you mean by "hypothetical"? There are several ring species in existance. They are still the same "type" of creature since they are of the same species ring. But think about what would happen if the middle was eliminated. You would now have two distinct species that can no longer interbreed. Thus, a single species has become two -- evolution on a small scale.
it was the point i decided to become agnostic.
i found my final stumbling block in my search for god.
i asked (myself as well as others): why would god create carnivorous animals before sin?
The WHOLE biological entity of the earth is good and bad. Who made the tree of good and bad in Eden? God.
Here's the bottom line, God can call something bad GOOD if He wants, and you have no say in it.
Pom: God can call suffering and death "good" but unless God's a sadist, I can't see how that is. To intentionally create conscious beings in this manner shows that God is not the God of ultimate love and ultimate justice. God (a moral being) has inflicted harm on innocents (amoral beings) and for what? A photo-drama of creation for the spirit world? It doesn't add up.
1. creation viewpoint: if one takes the bible literally, then it follows that all humans were vegetarian until the flood.
in fact, gen. 1:30 states that all creation ate vegetation.
one could deduce also from the bible that the carnivore/prey cycle is not god's original plan and that possibly it would be done away with in a paradise earth (isaiah somewhere).
Excellent thread.
If cows suddenly became intelligent would we have to stop eating them?
One reason we don't hunt other humans (for the most part) is that they are smart enough to have the capacity for revenge.
Apparently stupidity is a prerequisite for food.
I sometimes wonder as I'm eating my burger how an alien species would view us.
it was the point i decided to become agnostic.
i found my final stumbling block in my search for god.
i asked (myself as well as others): why would god create carnivorous animals before sin?
There is ONE place without question, where one can surely see for themselves that God created with full intention for one life to prey on another and it be GOOD.
Pom: I just can't see how unjustified, intentional suffering and death is "good". If anything, it is the complete opposite of "good" and brings to question God's purity of justice, love and absolute morality. I do respect your views on this thread even if I disagree with you elsewhere.
it was the point i decided to become agnostic.
i found my final stumbling block in my search for god.
i asked (myself as well as others): why would god create carnivorous animals before sin?
This is getting a bit Biblical, but getting back on the beaten path...
Pom: I'm still not sure I understand: Are you saying that God made the animals to eat each other?
IslandWoman: You said, "I believe we have too little information to accurately and fully answer the questions you propose." That's one more reason why I choose to be agnostic. No one has ever been able to prove that higher beings exists or does not exist. All we know is we exist.
gumby: I'm agnostic.
it was the point i decided to become agnostic.
i found my final stumbling block in my search for god.
i asked (myself as well as others): why would god create carnivorous animals before sin?
ARoarer - I know what you mean. It doesn't seem fair for animals that supposedly were not given any moral sense to be subjected to suffering and death -- and this would have been before "sin".
