Posts by lurk

28

gods name

by lurk in

been thinking about what blondie said about the use of jehovah in 1 thessalonians:4 and how they try to pass the word lord of as both jesus and jehovah ........so i looked some stuff up.... i cant think why i was so convinced that the disciples used gods name.

im willing to be convinced though.

example of jehovah being added and lord meaning both jesus and jehovah

lurk

leolaia you make my simple mind boggle lol

i used to think words that look similar must mean the same etc...untill i read abit on hierglyhs and transliteration(only a bit mind you).

lurk

28

gods name

by lurk in

been thinking about what blondie said about the use of jehovah in 1 thessalonians:4 and how they try to pass the word lord of as both jesus and jehovah ........so i looked some stuff up.... i cant think why i was so convinced that the disciples used gods name.

im willing to be convinced though.

example of jehovah being added and lord meaning both jesus and jehovah

lurk

narkissos

Your supermarket comparison, interesting as it is, implies a store with several accounts of several real customers. If there is only one customer the whole story collapses. That is the apory of monotheism as regards the name of "God".

are you sure? the type of name " i am what /who i am makes a differant statement to i shall be who i shall be ..the first is a statement of exsitance of simplying being who you are the second is more a statement about intension to prove who you are. the supermarket story uses the name as exsistance not intention and ssumes only one god but it is to humans who live in a world of many gods that the one and only god addresses himself. ...there for many accounts is valid ...i think anyway. working from the assumption of 1 god in a multi faith world. lurk

28

gods name

by lurk in

been thinking about what blondie said about the use of jehovah in 1 thessalonians:4 and how they try to pass the word lord of as both jesus and jehovah ........so i looked some stuff up.... i cant think why i was so convinced that the disciples used gods name.

im willing to be convinced though.

example of jehovah being added and lord meaning both jesus and jehovah

lurk

onacruise you make a good point there...if the bible can be preserved why would the most important thing be lost!!!

terry

and we know the Jewish messianic group would never employ the name the way the JW's do.

How?

farkel

If God had wanted humans to use, honor and somehow "vindicate" His name, why in-the-hell didn't he bother to take the time to tell us EXACTLY what it is?

youd think it would be alot easier than all the guessing if its that important

pole i agree ..i dont see how jehovah used the vowls that follow the 4 letters of gods name,unless differant vowles were used when it origianaly was used.

metetron

this is really good thinking..thanks i hadnt thought of that

narkissos

My guess is: because it had become an embarrassing vestige from polytheism.

when you look at the name its self........i think it surpasses any idea of other gods. and suggest merly a statement of exsistance..............almost as if to say.what name could i have...i simply am.

my question now is

god introduced himself as " i am the god of your fathers etc" and this is exactly what he goes on to quote as what moses should say when the ask for a name

whats the differacne between this i am and the ones that followed........yet i am in this verse is not kept in hebrew letters or siad to be holy..i made up the story below to show what i mean

ok here a story it might not make sense to you .but it helped me think of gods name in a differant way

the daughter of mary and ron is gardening one day.

jane passes by stops and says hello

the daughter of mary and ron says " hello -i am the daughter of mary and ron"

the daughter of mary and ron askes jane to fetch some shopping for her from the local supermarket

and tells her to put it on her account at the supermarket.

janes says "what name shall i say sent me"

the daughter of mary and ron says "well i am who i am , I am me , I am the daughter of mary and ron

"so tell them i sent you"

"tell them " i am the daughter of mary and ron sent you "

so jane goes to the supermarket and buys the shopping and goes to the till

jane explains the shopping isnt for her but for the person who sent her and should be put on that persons account

so the man at the till askes " who sent you ?"

jane replies "i am sent me "

then she adds "i am the daughter of mary and ron sent me"

the man at the till knows mary and ron and their daughter

he pulls up the account and charges the shopping to "iam the daughter of mary and ron" which is the name people know her by always.

ok you might laugh at this ..but after reading exodus after that story this was the only way to make sense of the "name"

is related to gods introduction of himself to moses as simply identity and thats all.

28

gods name

by lurk in

been thinking about what blondie said about the use of jehovah in 1 thessalonians:4 and how they try to pass the word lord of as both jesus and jehovah ........so i looked some stuff up.... i cant think why i was so convinced that the disciples used gods name.

im willing to be convinced though.

example of jehovah being added and lord meaning both jesus and jehovah

lurk

been thinking about what blondie said about the use of jehovah in 1 thessalonians:4 and how they try to pass the word lord of as both jesus and jehovah ........so i looked some stuff up.... i cant think why i was so convinced that the disciples used gods name. im willing to be convinced though.

example of jehovah being added and lord meaning both jesus and jehovah

1 Thessalonians 1:8
The fact is, not only has the word of Jehovah sounded forth from YOU in Mac·e·do'ni·a and A·cha'ia, but in every place YOUR faith toward God has spread abroad, so that we do not need to say anything.

Footnote = "Of Jehovah," J7, 8, 17, 18, 22, 23;

1 Thessalonians 4:6
that no one go to the point of harming and encroach upon the rights of his brother in this matter, because Jehovah is one who exacts punishment for all these things, just as we told YOU beforehand and also gave YOU a thorough witness.

Footnote = see appendix 1D

1 thessalonians 4 :15-17
15 For this is what we tell YOU by Jehovah's * word,(m) that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death];
16 because the Lord * himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.
17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord . 18 Consequently keep comforting one another with these words.

footnotes

V15 jehovah = see appendix 1D

V15 the Lord = "The Lord," <H<!>H>AVg; B, "Jesus."

V16 the Lord* ="The Lord," <H<!>H>ABVg; J7, 8, 13, 14, "Jehovah."

V17 the Lord = "The Lord," <H<!>H>ABVg; J7, 8, "Jehovah

V17 [the]Lord= "Lord," <H<!>H>ABVg; J7, 8, 13, 14, 24, "Jehovah

appendix 1D says

the tetragrammaton was used in greek septuagint and hebrew text so appostles would know it.

jesus would have pronounced it twice reading issiah at synagogue this is in acordance with his determination of making the name known (how if everyone else read it to !!!!!were they doing same job as him just casue they read it out?)

there is evidence that the disciples used the tetragrammaton because jerome in 4th century says mathew wrote his book originaly in hebrew and it was then translated to greek

they go on to say mathew would have quoted scripture with the tetragrammton in from OT so therefore he must have writen gods name in his original scripture (copied OT quotes ? yes probably... .but does this mean he said it while he was talking about god in the street?he didnt say adoni instead?)

peter is said to have quoted from septuagint that uses teragrammaton (how they know which translation he used is a mystery to me didnt alot of them have it but use adoni instead!!!),they say peters speech when put on record would have used the Tetregrammaton...this is naughty because they know that only peters quote from the OT would have gods name in it for certain .....no evidence says peters recorded speech included gods name in any way other than a quote.importanlty they do not mention that when quoting scripture peter peter may have followed jewish tradition and said "adoni" instread of gods name its self.

they mention a book that suggests a theory ,that the New testement originaly used gods name in quotes from the old testement (note this is for OT quotes only)

no evidence other than the use of hebrew quotes is given to support the the idea that the tetragrammaton was even used by early christians in any way other than quotes or that they spoke the sacred name rather than the traditionaly word adoni.

the appendix goes on to say they have restored the devine name in quotes as well as other places where
texts called for restoration.comparing scriputure with the OT to make sure they get it right .

*** Rbi8 1565 1D The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures ***To avoid overstepping the bounds of a translator into the field of exegesis, we have been most cautious about rendering the divine name in the Christian Greek Scriptures, always carefully considering the Hebrew Scriptures as a background. We have looked for agreement from the Hebrew versions to confirm our rendering. Thus, out of the 237 times that we have rendered the divine name in the body of our translation, there is only one instance where we have no agreement from the Hebrew versions. But in this one instance, namely, 1Co 7:17, the context and related texts strongly support rendering the divine name.-See 1Co 7:17 ftn, "Jehovah."

so they in other words they turned lord in to jehovah where they think it should be, but there is no evidece to say that it was ever said out side a OT quote.

by christs time gods name the teragrammaton was a taboo word but no where in the bible are the disciples critized for using gods name which would have caused much upset if they had been using it daily to preach surely? why no mention of it?

if it was the important work spreading gods name and yet it was to holy to be spoken why is it never mentioned in bible as a problem? the jews critized them for everything else why no critisium about their use of the holy and sacred name?

paul even gave in to the jews over tradition visiting them temple so as not to offend them ..they were obviously offended over anything that deviated from jewish tradition .

so why wasnt the disciples use of gods name ever a problem?

lurk

32

Is the Watchtower Part of the "Antichrist"?

by metatron in

in the apostle john's day, a variety of religious sects appeared in christian congregations called the gnostics.. many of these gnostics thought that matter and flesh were bad and anything 'spirit' was good, so they believed.

that jesus couldn't have been flesh and blood.

so, john condemned them , in his letters, as the "antichrist" because.

lurk

that Christ is not the mediator of the "great crowd" - the majority of JW's. They explain him as being only the direct
mediator of the "anointed" class - not the "other sheep".

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!

are you kidding???

how did i not know this

are you sure??

lurk

18

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 8-8-04 WT Study (Abbreviated)

by blondie in

" matthew 28:18-20

"all authority has been given me"

"out of all the languages"paragraphs 12-13

lurk

Anyone interested....please do a search of Michael on any of the CDs, you'll find a few articles that use 1 Thes 4:16 to prove Jesus is Michael .
"The Lord* himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel?s voice and with God?s trumpet." (1 Thessalonians 4:16)
Notice the asterisk beside the word Lord - when you look up this footnote it says - Jehovah. .....will power

looked up 1 Thessalonians 4:16 in the NWT, Will Power.
because
the Lord* himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel?s voice and with God?s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 1 THESSALONIANS 4:16
*
Footnote Rbi8 1 Thessalonians 4:16
"The Lord,"
אABVg; J 7,8,13,14 , "Jehovah."
It is interesting how quick the WTS is to insert Jehovah in the OT where it never occurred, yet at this juncture it does not because it would interfere with their pet little doctrine about Jesus not Jehovah having an archangel?s voice. The smaller NWTs would not have this information and few JWs look at the footnotes in the larger NWT.
Notice what insertion they make in this quote from the Insight Book Volume 2 page 1161 under "Voice"?

The apostle Paul said, when writing to the Thessalonian congregation about the gathering of God?s anointed holy ones: "
The Lord [Jesus Christ] himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel?s voice and with God?s trumpet." (1Th 4:16

i looked in my NWT and compared it to a oxford revised KJV

1 thessolonians 1:8 ,4:6,4:16 all are differant

in the Oxford KJV it says Lord but the WNT says jehovah ....

ok so i know that gods name was removed..but how do you tell if they were right to use jehovah not Lord?

My husband noticed just before he stepped aside as an elder that the BOE letters referred less and less to scriptures to support their views. The only one they kept using was Matthew 24:45-47. We are the slave so you have to listen to us. No proof that they are the slave and continue to be the slave, to follow Christ, just we are the slave, we tell you what the scriptures mean and if there is no scripture, remember we are the slave, Matthew 24:45-47.

this si what started the niggling feelings in my head blondie ...i felt i had lost my sense of identity and power to say yes and no etc .(plus a discussion over 1975 swept aside as "oh just a few people thought that"

lurk

24

a number of JW publications online

by cyberguy in

i saw a previous thread regarding the nwt being online.

it appears that the wt is putting a number of publications online!

see http://www.watchtower.org/publications/publications_available.htm.

lurk

If they were to edit anything out they would have edited out that embarrassing mention of the 1914 generation in an article on their site. This was discussed somewhere else on JWD. Does someone where that is on JWD?
Blondie

do you mean this http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/74785/1.ashx http://www.watchtower.org/library/lmn/article_10.htm http://www.watchtower.org/library/lmn/article_11.htm encouraging people to come to the kingdom hall thats far better than a church etc one article says

There is no soliciting of money

LOL lurk

18

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 8-8-04 WT Study (Abbreviated)

by blondie in

" matthew 28:18-20

"all authority has been given me"

"out of all the languages"paragraphs 12-13

lurk

All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah?s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.?John 6:68.

why should everyone asume the WTS is the correct channel ....ok after they have studied they think its the right one.but why would anyone assume i is correct before studying?

what has the WTS done so obviously world whide that ALL /everyone says" there go the JW's they are gods channel" i didnt even know what they were about and they been around for aloooong time.

i suppose its like knowing your the most wonderfull intelligent person in your nieghbourhood.you just assume everyone else knows it, its part of your delirium.

24

Comments You Will Not Hear at the August 1, 2004 WT Study

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the august 1, 2004 wt study (june 15, 2004 issue)

review comments will be in black and parentheses ()

wt quotes

lurk

i for got to say

it was very confusing that turtuilains example prooved that you must not use it for medical reasons.

blood can not cure anything if its eaten so they ate it in vain ...therefore surely to god this would be just needless eating of blood.

arguments of right and wrong of excepting blood aside ...how can tutrillians example of blood use be compared with modern medical treatment that does work?they are poles apart

lurk

24

Comments You Will Not Hear at the August 1, 2004 WT Study

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the august 1, 2004 wt study (june 15, 2004 issue)

review comments will be in black and parentheses ()

wt quotes

lurk

im always so late to reply i often give up.i just wanted to say how good i thought this was and i enjoyed it .thanks for all the research in adding the sense to the article.

it was amaizng for them to say

1 use your conscience but it may be week but dont ask us .BTW you'll be destroyed if you do get it wrong.i thought it was a terrribley confusing message and quite a burden to a family.

2 you cant have blood but you can have the ingridients !!!!!! as long as you devide them up so small it god wont notice !!!!.

i fell quite indignant that that the WTS allows followers to use other peoples donated blood when theres not enought to go round as it is . the article spoke so nicely about the good fraction can do !!!

3 i suppose the insinuation it that paul wouldnt have had a week conscience so the people who didnt obey the law to keep jews happy were week.

4 turtullians coments that the people non christians/pagans "greedy thirst " for the blood of the wicked criminals that died in the arena criminal sounded like old fashioned propaganda of a man whose family havent been thrown in the roman arena for the fun of the audience...they wernt all criminals by far.

nice to remember that pagan are not christans so dont know fo gods laws/new covenant with jesus so cant be expected to behave like christians.also that they are the ones christ came for. turtullian souns like a very judgemental man.

also he doesnt sound at all like a un biased observer. calling non christians pagan

(who do not know gods laws if they are pagan so are not oblidged to keep any) if you can only have fractions /ingriedients of whole blood

how can you only have fractions that dont save your life?? since anti snake bite stuff is listed as being okay to choose if you want.....are you supposed to ask a DR not to save you forn any snake bite that will kill!!!!! its madness.

lurk