Posts by roxanesophia

21

Are Jehovah's Witnesses Chrsitians?

by TimothyT in

despite being a jw for 20 years, this has just flashed up into my mind?.

of course jesus is important in the lives of jw's, but they worship jehovah!.

hence, are they christians or jehovians?.

roxanesophia

I don't think they are. THEY think they are. Therein lies the problem.
The doctrine actually doesn't give much to Jesus at all - first they eliminate the bible teaching that he is mankind's mediator, and then they exclude 98% of witnesses from partaking of his 'body and blood' though the bible doesn't say anything about only a select group being "worthy."

The NWT doesn't even respect Jesus enough not to twist his words. "Today you will be with me in paradise" - every other bible vs "I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise." A subtle, but significant difference.

I think all religion is man-made crap (and when i said this to a witness they said "Good thing we aren't a religion.") , i just think anyone who believes in Christ and accepts him as their savior is a Christian.

6

Counting time

by roxanesophia in

forgive me if it's a stupid question, but it's on my brain now that i don't trust the motives of witnesses out to recruit a new fruit loop to the bowl.... .

can they count their time driving "interested ones" to meetings?

.

roxanesophia

Forgive me if it's a stupid question, but it's on my brain now that I don't trust the motives of witnesses out to recruit a new fruit loop to the bowl...

Can they count their time driving "interested ones" to meetings?

17

Reasons "love bombing" ceases

by roxanesophia in

i study with a highly esteemed pioneer & elder's kid and i've learned on here that pioneers are right up there when it comes to gossip, as are elders kids, so i've got a double whammy.

unfortunately i didn't learn that until after i'd trusted her.

call me a moron but i'm totally drawn in by the kindness.

roxanesophia

IsaacJ22, your story is awful! Apart from the getting out of it part. I'm glad I came here, and i'm glad i have the brain to see through all the false love. MAYBE, these people i'm accusing of backstabbing me in every breath are genuinely good people, but after reading your experience, thats not a risk i want to take. Mostly they use cult talk at the moment like "You're one of us." But then say I'm not because I'm not baptized. Oh please, they surely think I'm an idiot. Well , i know they do, because I'm a reader, writer, researcher, and my knowledge extends past what the Watchtower teaches, and they think they are superior as far as education goes when the 'God' they serve strives to keep them stupid. SO SAD! I figure that because i do have have the knowledge i have and have no plans to give up researching everything I read, I'd probably be disfellowshipped before my hair dried.

And i have felt like you did... Are they the right religion? If so why do i feel so unhappy? It was almost turning me off God. Like i mentioned in my first post, when i thought it was in my heart to do 'Jehovah's will' and i was preparing to meet with the elders, I prayed, and all this 'apostate' stuff that makes all the sense in the world comes to me. My teacher clapped her hands with glee as if the devil was doing his job. OH SPARE ME. And when i wasn't progressing fast enough, she says i must own something satanic or be watching something, reading something, involved in SOMETHING that the devil is using to hold me back. And this genuinely freaked me out for a few nights...

And ASTOUNDING, that even though you can be in their hall, progressing, and being treated like gum on the back of an elders shoe, the second you abandon them, they're concerned and loving. Which, when i was in a worse state, totally would have fallen for. WOW... thats really bizarre. I shudder to think what i almost got myself into.

as far as association goes, i think i'm being kept away at this stage from spiritually strong people, AND on the flipside the spiritually weak ones. It's like I'm bad association to the former group, and too good for the latter and they might stumble me with their behavior. I can tell because in the hall, someone will join me and the person i'm talking to depending on who it is. I can get stuck talking to 80 yr old women for an hour with no escape person in sight, but as soon as i'm with a guy, suddenly people are flocking around.

Also, I've been around my teacher and her friends (other elders kids) when they're discussing someone in a bad way and then stopped when they noticed me. I know they know i'm not going to tell on them because i'm the outsider (and god does it feel that way!) so i think it's more about them not wanting to expose me to their nasty side yet. Im pretty sure they've had txt message conversations instead right in front of me. I'm an observer, albeit a overanalytic slightly paranoid one, but i'm right at least some of the time! she gave me her phone once to call someone for her and it took everything in me not to look at her messages.

Oh and my favourite moment was when i came to a meeting, sat down with an elders daughter i genuinely get along with (i think) and a MS dashed from the book counter up to the elder at the front and they were talking and looking at me. Took everything in me that time not to give them the finger. For curiosity's sake: how far up an elder's ass is an MS?

I have heard so loud speculating which included pounding of fists on table to make a point. Old timers loved to do this.
That would have made it less cult-ish and a lot more interesting. What kept me going to the meetings was "at least they discuss the bible and have other insightful discussions." No they don't. They read whats written... then read it again. And they take bible verses out of context that only decreases my bible knowledge, not expand it. That's when i realized that staying in it wouldn't benefit me in the slightest. I'm better off in the catholic church they condemn so often because at least whole chapters get read. Speaking of that, JW logic had such an impact on me, i was thinking my grandmother who is the most christian woman, better than 98% of the JWs I've met, was damned without question because not only did she go to the catholic church every week without fail, she gave them money - which you actually saw them use to help in the community. I love how JW's get pissed off when people judge them and they'll say "If they only came to a meeting, they'd see they are wrong about us." when they judge every other religion and wouldn't step foot in their churches to see that THEY'RE wrong.

Anyway, here's an update: Last visit to the hall i told a woman i don't need a religion to serve Jesus Christ. Her loving response was "But you wouldn't get very far."

And I asked an elder what would happen if someone took a blood transfusion as a baptized witness.

Me: "That's instant disfellowshipping, right? Hardest time of their life being sick and all, and then shunned on top of it."
Him: "Well.... uhh, no... no... well, let's say they'd definitely get a talking to."

LIAR.

17

Reasons "love bombing" ceases

by roxanesophia in

i study with a highly esteemed pioneer & elder's kid and i've learned on here that pioneers are right up there when it comes to gossip, as are elders kids, so i've got a double whammy.

unfortunately i didn't learn that until after i'd trusted her.

call me a moron but i'm totally drawn in by the kindness.

roxanesophia

Thanks guys for the insight into JW logic, it all makes sense (now if only their doctrines could). I suspected what was going on, but just need confirmation and i appreciate what everyone has to say.

Stick to your guns and ask questions, especially the hard ones.

This is exactly my strategy for getting the hell out. I was prepared at one point to stay in this sham for the association and because i am attracted to the morals, can't deny that. But i can't teach lies and i can't be a slave to a false prophet. And I'm sure the "you'll never be good enough" will kill me slowly and then i'm terrified of the fact there's no honorable way to leave in future. It just makes me so sad to know people who have put their entire life on hold, believing nothing else in life is important enough to pursue, believing they are doing the will of God. But i have faith in the prophecy that false prophets and sheep in wolf clothing will be dealt with.

they are under cult mind control I honestly think this is already started working on me. I've been in and out of this religion for years and always kept it at arms length. Sporadic meeting attendance and studying. It was never really in my heart to commit to it and the second it was, i learned THE TRUTH. HA! But I'm already using their terms and every time i saw a nice person i assumed they were a JW or should be (sick, i know) and while i once found meetings boring, since i started going regularly, I think i actually like them. I was explaining this to a worldly friend... I said "I can be so convinced i'm not going, then the time rolls around, something snaps in my indoctrinated brain, and i have to be there. I go. I JUST GO!" Scary, eh?

The JW's use terms such as "sheeplike" and "teachable"
Don't I know it. I've also heard "You have to have faith that whatever you don't understand, you don't have to." Damn, good way to brush off my doubts, but i'm not that stupid. Also, brothers were calling on my actual brother until they found out he is intellectually disabled, therefore no easy convert. Dropped him like a hot plate.

Most JW's talk at length about interested ones and studies behind their back. UGH! I try to remember "a celebrity is known to persons he's glad he doesn't know" or something like that to deal with this one. But i figured thats how it worked. Why do they do that? I just found it laughable, when i wasn't pissed off, that elders and MS and other pioneers already knew what i told them in some cases. And god knows what they know that i never told them. Oh well... it's that judgment that is going to make me walk from this religion, so good on them. Well, that, and because it's the whore of babylon.

"But you're doing so well" = what made you become a Satan-influenced trouble-maker all of a sudden?
Hahaha. Yeah they're pretty terrible at being subtle. My other favorite phrase he used when i was discussing doubts was "But you've been here, you've seen it for yourself, you know it's the truth, the people on the internet are there to make your life hard." It's so condescending. It's like trying to reason with a starving lion. No, actually, I believed it when i wasn't there.

Studying with the JWs comes with too high a price, that is if you value your freedom as an individual.

That's why i can't keep it up. I feel guilt over letting my study teacher go, but then i think.. NO, it's not as if her time has been wasted. She could use me to count her time and look like a better witness. If anything my time has been wasted.

I actually met another study at the KH the other night who thinks it's all crap, too. What a blessing that was. I had been praying to JESUS, that i was doing this for the association and i knew that was bad. Bam. I go to the hall, and i think i've met my new best friend. We plan to exit together. I'd rather have one friend who knows I'm a good person than 20 friends who only know i'm a good person if i'm living up to the orgs standards.

And then i realize i don't even want friends who blindly follow teachings with no research on their own part. I do feel bad for the born ins though. I thought i had it hard but when i thought about it If i leave the cult, i've got the world to go back to, and my family will make me a cake. Born in leaves the cult, they're in a world that never knew them, and they're cut off from entire congregations of 'family.'

17

Reasons "love bombing" ceases

by roxanesophia in

i study with a highly esteemed pioneer & elder's kid and i've learned on here that pioneers are right up there when it comes to gossip, as are elders kids, so i've got a double whammy.

unfortunately i didn't learn that until after i'd trusted her.

call me a moron but i'm totally drawn in by the kindness.

roxanesophia

I study with a highly esteemed pioneer & elder's kid and I've learned on here that pioneers are right up there when it comes to gossip, as are elders kids, so I've got a double whammy. Unfortunately i didn't learn that until after I'd trusted her. But i really like her. Call me a moron but i'm totally drawn in by the kindness. Until i came here i wasn't aware it's never genuine. Can a pioneer ever be trusted to keep things confidential? Is it their duty to report things to elders or MS on the progress, conduct, past, etc on "interested ones"? Am i an idiot to believe they know nothing about my business?

Truth be told, when speaking to MS' (under the impression they were just guys my age who would understand where I'm coming from. WRONG) I've said, without thinking, the things i doubt or don't like. They stood there with fake smiles while explaining it to me, topping it off with "But you're doing so well!" One elder said "I've heard a lot about you" not elaborating on if it was negative or positive. This was our first meeting, i don't know the first thing about him. And maybe I'm imagining it, but the 'love' has cooled off. Dunno if they're annoyed that i had stumbled across the list of topics they can't speak about, or if I'm not progressing fast enough. How long does it take them to mark someone as spiritually weak?

I'm considered worthy association to go to watchtower pre-studies in people's houses but that same person, in the same house won't invite me to any other gatherings there. I feel like they're using my need for friends (now that i've said i have cut ties with worldly association) against me because i'm not out witnessing yet. But it makes me feel awful. You think you're getting along with someone,they take your number and you never hear from them. Also, i have made an effort to introduce myself to people at the hall, having 45 minute conversations with them even only to get to the next meeting and it's like we never even met. I'm quite a shy person so it takes a lot out of me to meet people so i can stop feeling anxious going to the hall knowing there's people in there i can talk to, and it sucks when the ice just cannot be broken. Is this typical JW bullshit?

I also brought up "love bombing" with her, without using that term, but she said "We like new people otherwise it's just people we've known for years and years and grew up with." I dunno if she's lying but she didn't make it sound as bad as I've read it is.

So, for a study initially "love bombed", and hearing "you're doing so well!" left, right and center, what are the typical JW reasons to stop? I thought that was supposed to happen after I'm dunked...

44

Damn you Kingdom Melodies! Damn you to hell...

by unshackled in

jw
friends

i haven't been anywhere near a jw meeting or convention in at least 8 or 9 years.

but this afternoon, i'm doing some weed trimming and suddenly realized i had this lyric playing in my head...over and over.... .

"ours is the god of true prophecy,.

roxanesophia

Unshackled - Welcome to the forum roxanesophia. What song was that with those "This is the way to life, this is the way..." lyrics? Doesn't ring a bell....

Thank you I just had to look up the song in the "Sing to Jehovah" book. It's song 65. I won't write out the whole chorus incase it gets stuck in anyone's head. I don't wanna be responsible for that.

30

What would you hear if you played a Kingdom Melody backwards?

by watson in

jw
friends

just wondering....

roxanesophia

Satan appears and asks why you have so much time on your hands, you could be out in field service.

44

Damn you Kingdom Melodies! Damn you to hell...

by unshackled in

jw
friends

i haven't been anywhere near a jw meeting or convention in at least 8 or 9 years.

but this afternoon, i'm doing some weed trimming and suddenly realized i had this lyric playing in my head...over and over.... .

"ours is the god of true prophecy,.

roxanesophia

I woke up with the most ironic kingdom melody in my head:

"This is the way to life, this is the way..."

No, it really isn't.

That "Forward you witnesses!" song really kills me. Once that gets stuck, it doesn't budge.

26

Parroting in the meetings

by dgp in

in the one meeting i attended, i noticed that some witnesses were creative in the answers they gave to the questions, while others were simply repeating what the magazine said.

i remember that, at the time, i thought the creative ones were also the smart ones, while the others were lazy, and that no doubt the creative ones would rank higher in the watchtower.. well, i think i have changed my mind.

it seems to me that those parroting the questions are, in a way, the smart ones.

roxanesophia

Yes, the parroting drove me insane. It made me actually like hearing when people would stupidly analyze all the illustrations in the WT, because at least it was something from their own brain. I flat out asked someone once "Didn't we just read the freakin' answer in the paragraph?" At least parroting gave the kids a chance to answer up and their responses were only one line, ("Jehovah", "pray.") as opposed to Sister No Life who had a 15 minute answer starting with "I met someone in field service who..."

This makes me laugh... i have had several different study teachers, but one of them was an older pioneer sister. At first I never pre-studied the material and repeated what was in the book when it was time to answer. I felt stupid doing so, and even said to my teacher "It's already written in MY words." I did try my best to turn the wording around a bit though, pfft. So she told me to start pre-studying, and have the answers ready. So I did. I looked up EVERY scripture in the paragraph, and incorporated it all into the answer. NOW, as we know, the scripture rarely makes sense out of context, so i was getting confused and presenting questions my teacher couldn't answer because the rest of the scripture had nothing to do with what we were discussing. My answers became very complex (hey, i was proud of them! And i learned a hell of a lot more) and i knew my teacher found it bizarre.

A week later, an elder comes on our study. Big surprise. I pull out the one page answer for each question. Hahaha.

He looked blown away. I thought i was impressing him, until he tells me not to pre-study and just answer up off the top of my head because "yes, the answer is there, but it's good to repeat it so you can understand it." Well, thanks for assuming i can't understand shit simply by reading it.

Now I know why!

7

For people who are out but still believe in Jesus Christ...

by roxanesophia in

since the bible speaks of being blood guilty if one knowing the truth doesn't tell others, i'm a bit tortured by the fact i've learned the jw doctrine is false and i've found the truth in the bible, but there's no way in hell i can talk to other jw's about it.

i would so love to just plant the seed of doubt, and turn them to the real truth, but i know how futile that can be.

i was never baptized - with good reason.

roxanesophia

Thanks, Loubelle, I'm seeing it differently now. Guess I was still thinking like a J dub.

You then have to consider the tribe in the jungle - who has never heard of Christ and who never will.
That is actually something i used to argue JW's with. All they'd say is "Jehovah will read their heart." though they don't apply that to everyone whose door they knock on.