Hello Blondie and all the others,
thanks for sharing the latest update on Vicky's case.
I do sincerely hope for the true justice.
Vicky...Europe is with you!!!
Wishing all the best to you and your family,
James Charles MacHislopp
MacHislopp
JoinedPosts by MacHislopp
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Vicki Boer Update from Silentlambs
by blondie ini spoke with vicky this morning and the decision by the judge has been postponed.
for thirty more days.
this is difficult for the boer family as this now means.
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Resurrection of the men of Sodom and Gomorrah...the complete story
by MacHislopp insometime ago a friend of mine was very surprised when i did tell him about the many changes concerning the resurrection of the men from sodom and gomlorrah.
he didn't want to accept just the statements i.e.
yes/no + publication + date, so to make him a much happier person i did send him this:
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MacHislopp
Hello everyone,
sometime ago a friend of mine was very surprised when I did tell him about the many changes concerning the resurrection of the men from Sodom and Gomlorrah. He didn't want to accept just the statements i.e. YES/NO + publication + date, so to make him a much happier person I did send him this:
Having as the base of the reasoning, the 3 following 'dogmatic' statements from the WTBS Inc.
“The truth will not allow for all the different kinds of religious doctrine in the world…There can not be two sets of truth when one does not agree with the other. One or the other is true, but not both. Sincerely believing something and practicing that belief, will not make it right if it really wrong.”
--" You can live forever in Paradise on Earth", published 1982, page 32.
“If our worship is to be acceptable to God, it must be firmly rooted in God’s Word of truth. Jesus reproved those persons who claimed to serve God but who relied heavily on the tradit- ions of men in preference to God’s Word”
-" The Truth that leads to Eternal Life" published 1968 , page13
*** w60 7/15 439 Staying Awake with the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" ***
Again the awake world-watchman, the “slave” class, must undertake another world educational campaign following their restoration as witnesses after 1919. Such a global work has now been under way for more than forty years and is reaching its fruitful culmination. The facts show that during this time and up to the present hour the “slave” class has served as God’s sole collective channel for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth. Just as the early Christian congregation collectively served as the channel of communication from heaven to earth, so in our time. (Eph. 3:10) Abundant spiritual food and amazing details as to the doing of God’s will have been flowing through this unique channel actually as a miraculous evidence of the operation of holy spirit.
Let's start with the WTBS Inc.'s own quotes, on the subject:
*Resurrection of the men of Sodom and Gomorrah
***1879
" The Zion's Watchtower" Reprints, July 1879, p. 7
"Christ's own words shall tell us that they are not as guilty in His sight as the Jews, who had more knowledge: 'Woe unto thee, Capernaum, for if the mighty works which have been done in thee had been done in Sodom it would have remained unto this day.' Thus Christ's own words teach us that they had not had their full opportunity. 'Remember,' Christ says of the Sodomites, that 'God rained down fire and destroyed them all.' So, if their restoration is spoken of, it implies their resurrection."
***1916
"The Divine Plan of the Ages" (SS-1) 1916 ed., p. 110
"And why should not the Sodomites have an opportunity to reach perfection and everlasting life as well as Israel, or as any of us?...Our Lord's own words tell us that although God rained down fire from heaven and destroyed them all because of their wickedness, yet the Sodomites were not so great sinners in his sight as were the Jews, who had more knowledge. (Gen. 19:24; Luke 17:29.)...Thusour Lord teaches that the Sodomites did not have a full opportunity; and he guarantees them such opportunity when he adds (verse 24), 'But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom, in the day of judgment, than forthee'...And if Capernaum and all Israel are to beremembered and blessed under the 'New Covenant,' sealed by the blood of Jesus, why should not the Sodomites also be blessed among 'all the families of the earth?' They assuredly will be."
***1952
"The Watchtower", June 1, 1952, p. 336
"Corroborating this is Jude 7, which states that these cities are 'placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.' (NW) 'Everlasting fire' symbolizes the same thing as Gehenna, namely, second death. The destruction upon Sodom and Gomorrah must be final, or Jude would not have used it to illustrate the fate of those defilers for whom 'the blackness of darkness stands reserved forever'. (Jude 13, NW)
Jude 7 shows that those ancient cities had their judgment day back there at the time of their destruction, since they are spoken of as having already undergone an execution of judgment, 'the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.' By no wresting of scripture can this be made to mean a future resurrection for slain of the Lord. No remnant was saved from those cities,...If those slain by the Lord at Sodom have no resurrection, then those slain by him at Armageddon will have none, for the former pictures the latter."
***1.06.1952
"The Watchtower" , June 1, 1952, p. 338
"Another judgment period is brought into view when those championing resurrection for exterminated Sodomites quote Jesus' words on a certain occasion...From this some argue that there is a future judgment, in the millennial reign, for both Sodom and these Jewish cities. If we take this expression to mean that, then it would contradict Jude's statement that Sodom had already undergone the 'judicial punishment of everlasting fire.'"
***1.02.1954
"The Watchtower" , February 1, 1954, p. 85).
"He was pin-pointing the utter impossibility of ransom for unbelievers or those willfully wicked, because Sodom and Gomorrah were irrevocably condemned and destroyed, beyond any possible recovery"
***1.1.1965
*** w65 1/1 25 Worship the God of Resurrection ***
15 Today you can become his followers too, true Christians, and share in the preaching of God’s kingdom. Read the account in Matthew 11:20-24, and you will see what Jesus said about consequences. There he said that in the resurrection it will be much better for the people of Tyre, Sidon and Sodom, to whom Jesus never preached, than for those persons to whom Jesus did preach in Chorazin, Bethsaida and Capernaum. It was in these cities that Jesus did many of his powerful works, but they did not repent and follow him. Now, when the resurrection takes place for all these people, as it will for the thief who heard Jesus say, “You will be with me in Paradise,” what is going to happen? Jesus gave the answer to those of Chorazin and Bethsaida: “It will be more endurable for Tyre and Sidon on Judgment Day than for you.” And to those in Capernaum: “It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom on Judgment Day than for you.’—Matt. 11:22, 24.
16 It appears from Jesus’ statement that those of Tyre, Sidon and Sodom will repent and accept the provisions to gain life more quickly than will the Jews who had seen the powerful works that took place in their cities when Jesus was there with them.
***1.1.1965
*** w65 1/1 26 Worship the God of Resurrection ***
They do not want to be like the people of Chorazin, Bethsaida and Capernaum, whose reforming after their resurrection will be more difficult than that of those coming back from Sodom and Gomorrah. Maybe, because of their stubborn disposition then when Jesus was on the earth nineteen hundred years ago, they will show an even worse disposition when raised from the dead and they will be more resentful of what is taking place.
***1.03.1965
*** w65 3/1 140 Who Will Be Resurrected from the Dead? ***
14 Lot was delivered from Sodom’s destruction, but he is not yet completely saved to everlasting life under God’s kingdom. He needs a resurrection to that end. Now notice, please, that 2 Peter 2:6 says that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was only a “pattern,” one that was full of instruction for godly Christians as to what would happen to them if they stayed faithful to Jehovah God and what was sure to happen to them if they followed a course like that of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.
15 Were those Sodomites worse than the rest of the Canaanites? No; not according to Leviticus 18:21-28. And Peter does not say that the Sodomites and Gomorreans were destroyed everlastingly.
***1.08.1965
"The Watchtower", August 1, 1965, p. 479
"Since Jude 7 shows that Sodom and Gomorrah became a 'warning example by undergoing judicial punishment of everlasting fire,' does that not bar the inhabitants of those cities from a resurrection? -A. C.,
USA. Reading only that verse, without our taking into consideration what the rest of the Bible has to say on the matter, one might draw such a conclusion. But other scriptures present additional facts that cannot be ignored if we are going to arrive at a sound conclusions. For it to be 'more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah' than for others, it would be necessary for former inhabitants of that land to be present on Judgment Day...So apparently individuals who used to live in that land will be resurrected.--Rev. 20:12,13."
***1.07.1967
*** w67 7/1 409 Can Any War Be Wholly Just? ***
How will these, having been caught, be disposed of? Will they be preserved alive? Will they be killed and buried in Hades or Sheol, which is the common grave of dead mankind, from which resurrection is possible? No, these political organizations are slated to be “hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur.” This the Bible describes as the “second death.” (Rev. 20:14) It means the death from which there is no resurrection. They will be burned up root and branch, as completely gone forever as the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, which Jehovah God burned up by a rain of fire and sulphur from heaven, never to be rebuilt. It is destruction in Gehenna in which God destroys both body and soul (any right or possibility of living).—Matt. 10:28; Gen. 19:23-29; 2 Pet. 2:6-9; Jude 7.
***08.10.1974
*** g74 10/8 20 How God Has Actively Shown His Care ***
God’s dealing with Sodom and Gomorrah shows that he takes no pleasure in the death of anyone, but wants all to live, if they will just live respectfully toward their fellowman and in obedience to righteous principles. (Ezek. 33:11; Mic. 6:8) Moreover, God’s undeserved kindness and care are so great that he will bring back the people of Sodom by a resurrection, with opportunity to learn and turn around to the way of life, even as his Son stated.—Luke 10:11, 12; Matt. 11:24.
***08/1982
***"You can Live Forever ..." (pe)book (1982 edition)
[ page 179 , pars.9-11] ***
9 By saying this, Jesus showed that at least some of the unrighteous people of ancient Sodom and Gomorrah will be present on earth during Judgment Day. Although they had been very immoral, we can expect that some of them will be resurrected. (Genesis 19:1-26)”
***1.06.1988
*** w88 6/1 30-1 Questions From Readers ***
Do Jesus’ words at Matthew 11:24 mean that those whom Jehovah destroyed by fire in Sodom and Gomorrah will be resurrected?
In conscientiously responding to this question over the years, we have discussed Jesus’ words at Matthew 10:14, 15; 11:20-24; and Luke 10:13-15. A recent review of this suggests that these verses need not be taken as statements about the future for the people of Sodom/Gomorrah. Before we examine other Bible comments about the people destroyed in those cities, let us consider what Jesus said.
While in Galilee, Jesus “reproach[ed] the cities in which most of his powerful works had taken place, because they did not repent.” He named three: “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! because if the powerful works had taken place in Tyre and Sidon that took place in you, they would long ago have repented . . . It will be more endurable for Tyre and Sidon on Judgment Day than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you perhaps be exalted to heaven? Down to Hades you will come; because if the powerful works that took place in you had taken place in Sodom, it would have remained until this very day. . . . It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom on Judgment Day than for you.” (Matthew 11:20-24) Jesus made similar statements when sending the 12 disciples out to preach, and later the 70.—Matthew 10:14, 15; Luke 10:13-15.
Prior to 1964, we took these verses to mean that the people of Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum merited eternal destruction. However, Watchtower articles in 1964 and 1965 made it clear that all in Hades, or Sheol, (mankind’s common grave) will come forth in the resurrection and thereafter will be ‘judged according to their deeds.’—Revelation 20:13.
Those articles also reasoned: Matthew 11:23 and Luke 10:15 say that Capernaum would not be exalted to heaven but be brought “down to Hades,” which, at least, suggests debasement for the people of that city. In the same passage, Jesus mentioned ancient Tyre and Sidon. According to Ezekiel 32:21, 30, people of Sidon, who were condemned by God, went to Sheol. (Isaiah 23:1-9, 14-18; Ezekiel 27:2-8) Since Jesus paralleled Tyre/Sidon with Sodom, that indicated that the people of Sodom were in Sheol too.
A reexamination of Matthew 11:20-24, though, has brought into question whether Jesus was there discussing eternal judgment and resurrection. His point was how unresponsive the people in Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum were and how unlikely it was that they would reform even in the Judgment Day. Saying that it would be “more endurable” for Tyre/Sidon and Sodom/Gomorrah “on Judgment Day” was a form of hyperbole (exaggeration to emphasize a point) that Jesus need not have intended to be taken literally, any more than other graphic hyperboles that he used. For example:
“It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one particle of a letter of the Law to go unfulfilled.” “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.” (Luke 16:17; 21:33; Matthew 5:18; compare Hebrews 1:10-12.) We know that the literal heavens and earth will never pass away. (Psalm 78:69; 104:5; Ecclesiastes 1:4) Jesus also said: “It is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:25) Certainly, Jesus did not mean that no rich man could ever become a disciple; some in the first century became anointed Christians. (1 Timothy 6:17-19) Jesus’ use of exaggeration was to stress how hard it is for a rich man to put God before material wealth and comforts.—Luke 12:15-21.
Hence, Jesus’ saying that it ‘would be more endurable on Judgment Day for Tyre or Sodom’ did not necessarily mean that those people will be present on Judgment Day. He could simply have been stressing how unresponsive and culpable were most in Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum. We say most because some in Capernaum did accept Christ. (Mark 1:29-31; Luke 4:38, 39) Yet, basically those cities rejected him. Some of their inhabitants, as with the scribes and the Pharisees, may even have sinned against the holy spirit, for which forgiveness is impossible even in the ‘system of things to come.’ Such individuals go to Gehenna.—Matthew 12:31, 32; 23:33.
Aside from Jesus’ words on the point, Ezekiel 32:21, 30 does tell us that pagan people of ancient Tyre/Sidon are in Sheol; so they are in line for a resurrection. What, then, about the inhabitants of “the land of Sodom on Judgment Day”? The mere fact that Jesus paralleled Sidon with Sodom does not establish the future prospects of those wicked ones whom God destroyed with sulfur and fire. But let us see what else the Bible says on the question.
One of the most pointed comments is in Jude 7. Jude had just spoken of (1) Israelites destroyed for lack of faith, and (2) angels who sinned and are ‘reserved with eternal bonds for the judgment of the great day.’ Then Jude wrote: “So too Sodom and Gomorrah . . . are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.” This text has been applied to the actual cities’ being destroyed everlastingly, not the people. However, in view of Jude 5 and 6, likely most people would take Jude verse 7 to mean a judicial punishment of individuals. (Similarly, Matthew 11:20-24 would be understood as criticizing people, not stones or buildings.) In this light, Jude 7 would mean that the wicked people of Sodom/Gomorrah were judged and destroyed everlastingly.
Looking elsewhere, we find it noteworthy that more than once the Bible links the Flood and Sodom/Gomorrah. In what context?
When asked about “the conclusion of the system of things,” Jesus foretold the coming “end” and a “great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning.” (Matthew 24:3, 14, 21) He went on to speak of “the days of Noah” and what “occurred in the days of Lot” as being examples of people who took no note of warning about coming destruction. Jesus added: “The same way it will be on that day when the Son of man is to be revealed.” (Luke 17:26-30; compare Matthew 24:36-39.) Was Jesus illustrating just an attitude, or does the context in which he used these examples suggest that eternal judgments were involved?
Later, Peter wrote about God’s judgments and His punishing those deserving it. Then Peter used three examples: The angels that sinned, the ancient world of Noah’s time, and those destroyed in Sodom/Gomorrah. The latter, Peter said, ‘set a pattern for ungodly persons of things to come.’ (2 Peter 2:4-9) Thereafter, he compared the destruction that people suffered in the Deluge with the coming “day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.” That precedes the promised new heavens and new earth.—2 Peter 3:5-13.
Likewise, at the end of the present wicked system, will those whom God executes have had a final judgment? That is the indication of 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9: “It is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you, but, to you who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength.”
There is an interesting similarity in phraseology between this description and what Jude said occurred in the case of Sodom. Furthermore, Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 19:11-21 indicate that “the goats” cut off in the coming war of God will experience “everlasting cutting-off” in “the lake of fire,” which symbolizes permanent annihilation.—Revelation 20:10, 14.
Consequently, in addition to what Jude 7 says, the Bible uses Sodom/Gomorrah and the Flood as patterns for the destructive end of the present wicked system. It is apparent, then, that those whom God executed in those past judgments experienced irreversible destruction . Of course, each of us can confirm that by his proving faithful to Jehovah now. In that way we will qualify to be alive in the new world to see whom he resurrects and whom he does not. We know that his judgments are perfect. Elihu assured us: “For a fact, God himself does not act wickedly, and the Almighty himself does not pervert judgment.”—Job 34:10, 12.
***08/1988
*** "Revelation - Its Grand Climax at Hand! pub. 1988
*** re 273 38 Praise Jah for His Judgments! *
*[Box on page 273]
“Epistle to Sodom and Gomorrah”
"Jesus Christ also knew what he thought and stated it in explicit terms.
He said that it would be “more endurable for the land of Sodom on Judgment Day” than for the religionists who spurned his message. (Matthew 11:23, 24)
Jesus was here using hyperbole to show that those religious leaders who rejected the Son of God and his teaching were even more reprehensible than the Sodomites.
Jude 7 states that those Sodomites underwent “the judicial punishment of everlasting fire,” meaning eternal destruction. (Matthew 25:41, 46)
***08/1988
*** "Insight on the Scriptures " Vol. I (published in 1988)
*** it-1 616 Destruction ***
Since Sheol in the Bible denotes the common grave of mankind from which there will be a resurrection, it is evident that not all destruction—not even all destruction at the hand of God—is necessarily eternal.
This is also illustrated by what happened to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and their inhabitants. Jude indicated that these cities were everlastingly destroyed. (Jude 7; compare 2Pe 2:6.)
However, Jesus’ words recorded in Matthew 10:15 show that at least some of the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah will receive a resurrection. —See JUDGMENT DAY.
***08/1988
*** "Insight on the Scriptures " Vol. II (published in 1988)
*** it-2 985 Sodom ***
Jude mentions that “Sodom and Gomorrah . . . are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.” This would not conflict with Jesus’ statement about a Jewish city that would reject the good news: “It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day than for that city.” Sodom and Gomorrah were everlastingly destroyed as cities, but this would not preclude a resurrection for people of those cities.—Jude 7; Mt 10:15; compare Lu 11:32; 2Pe 2:6.
***08/1988
*** "Insight in the Scriptures " Vol.1 (published in 1988)
*** it-1 985 Gomorrah ***
Though the cities underwent “the judicial punishment of everlasting fire” (Jude 7), Jesus indicated that people of Sodom and Gomorrah would experience a resurrection to stand for judgment. He contrasted them with a city that rejected his disciples in their preaching of the Kingdom good news, saying: “It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day than for that city.”—Mt 10:7, 14, 15; see SODOM.
***08/1988
*** "Insight in the Scriptures " Vol.II (published in 1988)
*** it-2 137 Judgment Day ***
Resurrection is involved. When using the expression “Judgment Day,” Jesus brought into the picture a resurrection of the dead. He mentioned that a city might reject the apostles and their message, and said: “It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day than for that city.” (Mt 10:15) This projected the matter into the future and naturally suggested that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah would then be alive by means of resurrection. (Compare Mt 11:21-24; Lu 10:13-15.)
***08/1989
"You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth "
( revised edition published in 1989)
*** pe 179 21 Judgment Day and Afterward ***
.
9 Will such terribly wicked persons be resurrected during Judgment Day? The Scriptures indicate that apparently they will not. For example, one of Jesus’ inspired disciples, Jude, wrote first about the angels that forsook their place in heaven to have relations with the daughters of men. Then he added: “So too Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, after they in the same manner as the foregoing ones had committed fornication excessively and gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.” (Jude 6, 7; Genesis 6:1, 2) Yes, for their excessive immorality the people of Sodom and of the surrounding cities suffered a destruction from which they will apparently never be resurrected.—2 Peter 2:4-6, 9, 10a.
10 Jesus too indicated that the Sodomites may not be resurrected . When he spoke of Capernaum, one of the cities where he performed miracles, he said: “If the powerful works that took place in you [Capernaum] had taken place in Sodom, it would have remained until this very day. Consequently I say to you people, It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom on Judgment Day than for you.” (Matthew 11:22-24) Jesus here was emphasizing the reprehensibility of the people of Capernaum by saying that it would be more endurable for the ancient Sodomites who, in the minds of his Israelite audience, were totally unworthy of a resurrection on Judgment Day.
I'm sorry to tell you that my friend , wasn't so pleased, after all , as I would have imagined, and even less when I told him this:
*** w95 8/1 17 Taught by Jehovah Down Till This Day ***
13 Jehovah particularly teaches his people by means of a weekly study of the Bible, using The Watchtower as a teaching aid. Do you view this meeting as a place where you can be taught by Jehovah? "
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
"Vulgare amici nomen, sed rara est fides " (Fedro, III, 8)
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A prophet...voice of God or ??
by MacHislopp into begin let's start with some ... reminders: .
the truth will not allow for all the different kinds of religious doctrine in the worldthere can not be two sets of truth when one does not agree with the other.
one or the other is true, but not both.
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MacHislopp
Hello everyone,
Thanks to all for the comments and the appreciative
remarks. It's nice to know that some efforts can help
other to see ...better and distinguish the light from the
total darkness.
Figureheaduk :" I tend to think of them as false prophets ..."
I do believe we are not walking ...alone!
DJ : ... good post.
I do always try not to waste other people ...precious time!
ClassAvenger : " are most witnesses aware of this stuff...?"
Unfortunately many are not aware of it, for a number of reason.
I do believe that this board can, with everyone's help and contribution ,
make that number as small as possible.
COMF : " The Witnesses practice Doublethink "
Please, allow me , a small correction:
" The Witnesses are taught to practice Doublethink "
Artful: " … I will save this in my files!
I'm glad that you have found it useful. I'm sure that many of us
have files , ready to be used.
Latte: " This is the kind of stuff which can help dubs see the truth....great!"
I do agree with you 100%...that's way I carefully prepared it.
Anglise : " The WTBTS gets away with this because it is very hard
to dig all this information out and collate it."
I do agree on your comment. Really it is this very knowledge
i.e. the difficulty to dig informations and the time needed
that ..drives me - like many of you on this board - to
prepare the material in my spare time.
By trying to prepare useful and informative posts, I do
also wish to avoid , waisting the visitors...precious time.
You also wrote:
"This sort of posting and research can potentially help many more thousands
avoid the heartache and problems experienced due to the WTBTS and their
lies and cover-ups."
I do also believe that the vast majority on this board has this same goal.
Hamas: " Evidence they claim to be God's prophet one minute,
yet say they are uninspired the next."
This is truly the point. Thanks for the link.
Blondie: "... only 30% of the JWs ever read their own publications.
It is not surprising that these gems slipped by them."
Well I would say, by personal experience, .only 5-8% ever read the
WTBS Inc's publications.
A Paduan: "... animals describe that as a forked tongue"
Yes indeed. Alias snakes, alias ...liars.
Refiners fire: I'm sorry for the setting, the type and the presentation.
I'll try to make it smaller and less coloured, but I'm pleased that you have
found it interesting. Btw eager to read some of your findings concerning
the early adventists.
Thanks again, greetings,
James Charles MacHislopp
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Sex in the New Book "Learn from the Great Teacher"
by AlanF ini just obtained a copy of one of the new releases from the summer jw district conventions, learn from the great teacher.
this book is oriented towards children, and frankly, is a stereotypical piece of propaganda from the "faithful and discreet slave".
in some ways the book is incredibly revealing, since it has to break down a number of ridiculous jw teachings into a form that even jw children can swallow, and when those teachings are put into simplest form their ridiculousness is evident to everyone but small children and stereotypically braindead jws.
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MacHislopp
Hello Alan,
first of all many thanks for the "surprise"...at least for most
part of Europe. So we know what'’ s coming!
Thanks also for the added comments. I'll ...try to get one
as soon as possible .
Strange stuff...about the demons!
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
P.S. I'm quite sure that in certain European
countries the ‘unusual ‘ WTBS ‘ explicit language ...
will cause some problems.
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13
A prophet...voice of God or ??
by MacHislopp into begin let's start with some ... reminders: .
the truth will not allow for all the different kinds of religious doctrine in the worldthere can not be two sets of truth when one does not agree with the other.
one or the other is true, but not both.
-
-
MacHislopp
Hello everyone,
To begin let's start with some ... reminders:
“The truth will not allow for all the different kinds of religious doctrine in the world…There can not be two sets of truth when one does not agree with the other. One or the other is true, but not both. Sincerely believing something and practicing that belief, will not make it right if it really wrong.”
--" You can live forever in Paradise on Earth", pub. 1982, page 32.
“If our worship is to be acceptable to God, it must be firmly rooted in God’s Word of truth. Jesus reproved those persons who claimed to serve God but who relied heavily on the tradit- ions of men in preference to God’s Word”
-" The Truth that leads to Eternal Life" pub. 1968 , page13
*** w60 7/15 439 Staying Awake with the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" ***
Again the awake world-watchman, the “slave” class, must undertake another world educational campaign following their restoration as witnesses after 1919. Such a global work has now been under way for more than forty years and is reaching its fruitful culmination. The facts show that during this time and up to the present hour the “slave” class has served as God’s sole collective channel for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth. Just as the early Christian congregation collectively served as the channel of communication from heaven to earth, so in our time. (Eph. 3:10) Abundant spiritual food and amazing details as to the doing of God’s will have been flowing through this unique channel actually as a miraculous evidence of the operation of holy spirit.
Let's start with the year 1957, and take this article:
*** w57 6/15 370 Overseers of Jehovah's People ***
JEHOVAH’S CHANNEL OF COMMUNICATION
6 Jehovah has established a very definite channel of communication through which he deals with his people. In the time before the flood he used Noah, and it was vital for all to recognize that fact in order to be saved from the world cataclysm of that time. (Heb. 11:7)
At the time of Israel’s exodus from Egypt it was Moses through whom God dealt with his people. When they recognized the theocratic arrangement Jehovah’s blessing rested upon them. However, when they took a merely human view of this provision of God they brought trouble upon themselves. Such was the experience of Miriam, who was smitten with leprosy for her failure to recognize Jehovah’s arrangement with respect. Others, such as Korah, Dathan, Abiram and the men with them, were cut off in death for their self-willed independence. And even those who sympathized with them brought upon themselves divine disapproval, 14,700 of them being cut off on one occasion.—Num. 12:1-10; 16:1-35, 41-50.
7 Let us now unmistakably identify Jehovah’s channel of communication for our day, that we may continue in his favor. Listen to the inspired answer to the situation, in Matthew 24:45-47 (NW): “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.” And has he?
Yes, particularly since 1919 has it been true that he has appointed the collective body of the anointed remnant over all the visible interests of the Kingdom. The “slave” then became responsible not only for ministering to the needs of the anointed body members but also for taking on the responsibility of preaching the good news of the established Kingdom to people of all nations. (Matt. 24:14) Such is true not by their determination of it, but because God himself has so directed. “God has set the members in the body, each one of them, just as he pleased,” is the way it is pictured in 1 Corinthians 12:18 (NW).
It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the “slave” as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision."
Just in case things were not so clear, two years later, in 1959, it was stated, published and publicly taught about "God's prophet" identity :
"The Watchtower " 1959 January 15th pages, 39-41
Down with the Old-Up with the New!
Whom has God actually used as his prophet?By the historical facts of the case Christendom is beaten back in defeat. Jehovah's witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them. ... It has been because Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths... "
Only, 13 years later, in 1972 , it was published and taught publicly , that "... Jehovah has a prophet..." and that, "...Jehovah's Christian witnesses.." as a "... group acts as a "prophet" of God..." : "The Watchtower" 1972 April 1st page 197 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them' People today can view the creative works. They have at hand the Bible, but it is little read or understood. So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? ... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses. ... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. " And to make things even more clear, it was published, in 1973 the following: *** w73 7/1 402-7 Praise Jehovah with His People *** 4 Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God’s holy spirit or active force. (Zech. 4:6) Only this organization functions for Jehovah’s purpose and to his praise. To it alone God’s Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book. Many persons of the world are very intelligent, capable of understanding complex matters. "... How very much true Christians appreciate associating with the only organization on earth that understands the “deep things of God”! 5 Direction by God’s spirit enables Jehovah’s servants to have divine light in a world of spiritual darkness. (2 Cor. 4:4) 7 Furthermore, this organization alone is supplied with “gifts in men,” such as evangelizers, shepherds and teachers, who serve God’s purpose in connection with the spiritual development and welfare of his people. (Eph. 4:7-16) DISPLAYING YOUR APPRECIATION FOR GOD’S ORGANIZATION 13 ... Jehovah’s Word and true Christian publications inculcate God’s righteous laws and principles. So read and study them regularly. Cherish the spiritual guidance they furnish. Be like the psalmist who said: “Blessed you are, O Jehovah. Teach me your regulations. . . . For your statutes I shall show a fondness. I shall not forget your word.”—Ps. 119:12-16. 16 If we truly appreciate Jehovah’s earthly organization, we will remain loyal to it, knowing that the organization is his. If we were to leave it, where else could we go? There is no other organization that is doing the divine will or that is educating people for life everlasting. When many abandoned Jesus Christ, he asked his apostles: “You do not want to go also, do you?” Peter replied: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life; and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God.” (John 6:66-69) 18 Faithful, appreciative ones wish to offer a fine “sacrifice of praise” to God. (Heb. 13:15) But how can this be done? Seek Jehovah’s help in prayer. Guidance by his holy spirit is needed to aid sheeplike persons and to do one’s best in the ministry. So pray for God’s spirit to rest upon you. Jehovah graciously grants it to his dedicated servants who make this plea. Jesus Christ stated: “Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him!”—Luke 11:13. DIRECT OTHERS TO JEHOVAH’S ORGANIZATION 22 When conducting informative Bible studies with interested persons, endeavor to cultivate in their hearts an appreciation for God’s Word and his organization, the Christian congregation. For instance, when a problem arises and the Scriptural solution is found in a Christian publication, the Bible student might be asked: ‘If Jehovah’s organization did not give us Biblical understanding in matters like these, we would not know what course to take in order to please God, would we?’ Such thought-provoking questions can be used with telling effect. They will make the student think and realize the value and importance of the Bible and of Jehovah’s organization. 23 ....Show them how those associated with Jehovah’s earthly organization walk in spiritual light, have God’s backing and direction by his holy spirit and enjoy his rich blessing...." Again and again "God's holy spirit " is " directing " ... " guiding "...and "...enables Jehovah’s servants to have divine light.."!! Then in the year 1985, it was stated, published and publicly taught - and still valid up to this year 2003 - that "...Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. ..." The quote from book " Reasoning from the scriptures" published in 1985, page 136, declares: "Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.... It is true that the Witnesses have made mistakes in their understanding of what would occur at the end of certain time periods, but they have not made the mistake of losing faith or ceasing to be watchful as to fulfilment of Jehovah's purposes.... Matters on which corrections of viewpoint have been needed have been relatively minor when compared with the vital Bible truths that they have discerned and publicized. " Please note that now, in 1985 , the things published and taught worldwide as "TRUTH " concerning "the cronology" of events were only ...." mistakes in their understanding" and some matters needed : "corrections of viewpoint .."! Yet, another 3 years later, in 1988, it is published that , "...Jehovah God speaks also through his earthly organization..." : *** w88 4/1 31 Is Obedience Always Proper? *** When our heavenly Father, Jehovah God, speaks, whether through his Word, the Bible, or through his earthly organization, it is all the more important for us to listen and obey, thus proving that we are obedient worshipers who do not ignore the loving reminder: “Did you hear me?” Few more year passed, and we arrive in the year 1993, and now, more astonishing than ever , these " teachings/informations" that were published are called: "...suggested dates..." and can also " turn out to be incorrect..." but the JW's :" "... never did they say, 'These are the words of Jehovah ..."!!! "Awake!" 1993, March 22nd pages 3-4 Why So Many False Alarms? Jehovah's Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus' second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions 'in the name of Jehovah.' Never did they say, 'These are the words of Jehovah " All this raises an important and fundamental question: How is it possible, in the year 1993, just 34 years after 1959 , to publish and teach publicly, worldwide , something totally in contraddiction with : "The Watchtower " 1959 January 15th pages, 39-41 Down with the Old-Up with the New! Whom has God actually used as his prophet?By the historical facts of the case Christendom is beaten back in defeat. Jehovah's witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them. ... It has been because Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths... " Unless mistaken, those written words, in "The Watchtower" of 1959, stated that: " ...Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths... " ( - their - i.e. ' Jehovah's witnesses ') Then, in 1995, after many and many years "..the creator's promise of a new world order within the generation.." - the "1914' s generation" - is no longer published, in the masterhead of the "Awake!" (from the issue of November, 8th 1995). Nevertheless ,only 3 years later, in 1998 it was published and 'given' for worldwide teaching in all the congregations the following: *** w98 7/15 p. 14 Beware of a Lack of Faith *** 20 If we do not respond positively to Jehovah’s “voice,” clearly expressed in the Scriptures and Bible-based publications, we will soon find ourselves “drawing away from the living God…” and: *** w98 7/15 p. 14 Beware of a Lack of Faith *** 21 How happy we are that Jehovah is still speaking to us today, through his Word and his organization! We are grateful that “the faithful and discreet slave” continues to help us to “make fast our hold on the confidence we had at the beginning firm to the end.” (Hebrews 3:14)” Then , if we have still any doubts, we are given this reminder : *** w 03 3/15 p. 25, *Applying the lesson today, (paragraph 19) – Watchtower' study for Sunday 4 th May 2003 - “ Do I patiently wait on Jehovah when answers to lingering questions seems slow in coming? It is vital that we make good use of the spiritual food that is avalaible today, so that “ we may never drift away.”(Hebrews 2:1) When Jehovah provides direction by means of his Word, his spirit and his earthly organization, let us listen carefully.or this: And her prophets have plastered for them with whitewash, visioning an unreality and divining for them a lie, saying: "This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said," when Jehovah himself has not spoken."
I do hope ...you 'll like it.
Greetings, J.C. MacHislopp
"Veritas odium parit " (Terenzio, Andri, a. I)
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The WTS will tell you what Jehovah left out! (Worship book, chapter 5)
by ozziepost inare there things that god doesnt know?
do we constantly have to be proving ourselves to god?
that seems to be the thinking in chapter 5 of the recently released book worship the only true god.
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MacHislopp
Hello Ozziepost,
thanks for the post. Just brilliant...and so logic!
Greetings,...to Mrs. Ozzie too.
J.C.MacHislopp
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Comments You Will Not Hear at the 5-25-03 WT Study
by blondie incomments you wont hear at the 5-25-03 wt study
april 15, 2003 page 12. wt quotes are in red or quotes "".
reviewer comments are in black or parentheses.
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MacHislopp
Hello Blondie,
Just finished reading your analysis...!!
I'm sorry to say...it is brilliant, factual, very well
exposed and with a nice choice of words and analogies.
I'm sure that many more will appreciated your excellent
work, in exposing ...the falsehood in the ' watchtower' article.
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
Btw, I did also like very much the ...comments on the
pictures. Great!
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Solomon and Apostacy
by RubaDub inissue .... i've never gotton a good answer about king solomon's later life in which the bible says he married "foreign" wifes and worshipped their gods.. from my dub perspective, this always sounded like plain, clear, unadulterated apostacy.
i mean, if i begin attending the catholic church i would be da'd in a minute and branded as being an apostate.
but we never hear solomon referred to as an apostate.
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MacHislopp
Hello RubDub
Thanks for the very, very interesting question.
Blondie thanks for the WTBS quotes.
I would ike to add these:
*** it-1 pp. 126-127 Apostasy ***
Apostasy in Israel. The first two commandments of the Law condemned all apostasy. (Ex 20:3-6) And before Israel’s entry into the Promised Land, they were warned against the grave danger of apostasy resulting from marriages with the people of the land. (De 7:3, 4) Even though a person who was inciting others to apostasy was a close relative or a marriage mate, he was to be put to death for having “spoken of revolt against Jehovah your God.” (De 13:1-15) The tribes of Reuben, Gad, and Manasseh were quick to exonerate themselves of a charge of apostasy that arose because of their construction of an altar.—Jos 22:21-29.
Many of the kings of Israel and of Judah followed an apostate course —for example, Saul (1Sa 15:11; 28:6, 7), Jeroboam (1Ki 12:28-32), Ahab (1Ki 16:30-33), Ahaziah (1Ki 22:51-53), Jehoram (2Ch 21:6-15), Ahaz (2Ch 28:1-4), and Amon (2Ch 33:22, 23). In due time a nation of apostates developed because the people listened to apostate priests and prophets (Jer 23:11, 15) and other unprincipled men who, by smooth words and false sayings, led them into loose conduct, immorality, and desertion of Jehovah, “the source of living water.” (Isa 10:6; 32:6, 7; Jer 3:1; 17:13) According to Isaiah 24:5, the very land became “polluted [cha·nephah´] under its inhabitants, for they have bypassed the laws, changed the regulation, broken the indefinitely lasting covenant.” No mercy was to be granted them in the predicted destruction.—Isa 9:17; 33:11-14; Zep 1:4-6.
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*** it-1 p. 1164 Hypocrite ***
Although words from the Hebrew root cha·neph´ are rendered “hypocrite” or “hypocrisy” in some translations, such as the King James Version, Douay, and Leeser, other translators have variously rendered these words “profane” (Yg), “impious” (Ro), “godless” (RS), and “apostate” (NW). According to A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs (1980, pp. 337, 338), cha·neph´, when used as an adjective, may be defined as “profane, irreligious . . . , godless”; or, as a verb, “be polluted, profane . . . , inclining away from right.” In the Scriptures cha·neph´ appears in parallel with those forgetting God (Job 8:13), the wicked (Job 20:5), evildoers (Isa 9:17), and it is used in contrast with the upright and innocent ones.—Job 17:8; see APOSTASY.
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*** it-1 p. 621 Deuteronomy ***
Warnings and Laws. Deuteronomy is filled with warnings against false worship and unfaithfulness as well as instructions on how to deal with it so that pure worship might be preserved. The exhortation to holiness was an outstanding thing in Deuteronomy. The Israelites were admonished not to intermarry with the nations round about, because this would present a threat to pure worship and loyalty to Jehovah. (De 7:3, 4) They were warned against materialism and self-righteousness. (8:11-18; 9:4-6) Strong laws were made regarding apostasy. They were to watch themselves so that they would not turn to other gods. (11:16, 17) They were warned against false prophets. Instructions were given in two places as to how to identify a false prophet and how he should be dealt with. (13:1-5; 18:20-22) Even if a member of one’s own family should become apostate, the family was not to have pity but was to share in stoning such a one to death.—13:6-11.
Cities of Israel that turned apostate were to be devoted to destruction, and nothing was to be preserved for personal benefit by anyone. The city was never to be rebuilt. (De 13:12-17) Delinquents whose parents could not control them were to be stoned to death.—21:18-21.
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*** ip-1 chap. 25 pp. 336-337 The King and His Princes ***
13 Many such senseless ones come to hate those who champion God’s truth. “His very heart will work at what is hurtful, to work at apostasy and to speak against Jehovah what is wayward.” (Isaiah 32:6b) How true this is of modern-day apostates! In a number of countries in Europe and Asia, apostates have joined forces with other opponents of truth, speaking outright lies to the authorities, with a view to having Jehovah’s Witnesses banned or restricted. They manifest the spirit of the “evil slave,” of whom Jesus prophesied: “If ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.”—Matthew 24:48-51.
14 In the meantime, the apostate causes “the soul of the hungry one to go empty, and he causes even the thirsty one to go without drink itself.” (Isaiah 32:6c) Enemies of truth try to deprive truth-hungry people of spiritual food, and they try to keep thirsty ones from drinking the refreshing waters of the Kingdom message. But the final outcome will be what Jehovah declares to his people through another of his prophets: “They will be certain to fight against you, but they will not prevail against you, for ‘I am with you,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘to deliver you.’”—Jeremiah 1:19; Isaiah 54:17.
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*** w87 11/1 pp. 19-20 Are You Remaining Clean in Every Respect? ***
15 Apostates often appeal to the ego, claiming that we have been deprived of our freedoms, including the freedom to interpret the Bible for ourselves. (Compare Genesis 3:1-5.) In reality, these would-be defilers offer nothing more than a return to the nauseating teachings of “Babylon the Great.” (Revelation 17:5; 2 Peter 2:19-22) Others appeal to the flesh, urging former associates to “take it easy” because the humble work of witnessing from house to house is “unnecessary” or “unscriptural.” (Compare Matthew 16:22, 23.) True, such smooth talkers may look outwardly clean in a physical and moral way. But inside they are spiritually unclean, having given in to prideful, independent thinking. They have forgotten all that they learned about Jehovah, his holy name and attributes. They no longer acknowledge that all they learned about Bible truth—the glorious hope of the Kingdom and a paradise earth and the overturning of false doctrines, such as the Trinity, the immortal human soul, eternal torment, and purgatory—yes, all of this came to them through “the faithful and discreet slave.”—Matthew 24:45-47.
16 Interestingly, a circuit overseer in France observes: “Some brothers are deceived because they lack accurate knowledge.” That is why Proverbs 11:9 states: “By knowledge are the righteous rescued.” This does not mean giving apostates a hearing ear or delving into their writings. Rather, it means coming to “an accurate knowledge of the sacred secret of God” through diligent personal study of the Bible and the Society’s Bible-based publications. Having this accurate knowledge, who would become so curious as to pay any attention to apostate mouthings? May no man “delude you with persuasive arguments”! (Colossians 2:2-4) False religious propaganda from any source should be avoided like poison! Really, since our Lord has used “the faithful and discreet slave” to convey to us “sayings of everlasting life,” why should we ever want to look anywhere else?—John 6:68
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*** w00 5/1 pp. 9-10 Firmly Uphold Godly Teaching ***
Enemies of the Truth
8 Apostates can present yet another threat to our spirituality. The apostle Paul foretold that apostasy would arise among professed Christians. (Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Thessalonians 2:3) In fulfillment of his words, after the death of the apostles, a great apostasy led to the development of Christendom. Today, there is no great apostasy taking place among God’s people. Still, a few individuals have left our ranks, and some among them are bent on defaming Jehovah’s Witnesses by spreading lies and misinformation. A few work with other groups in organized resistance to pure worship. In doing so, they side with the very first apostate, Satan.
9 Some apostates are increasingly using various forms of mass communication, including the Internet, to spread false information about Jehovah’s Witnesses. As a result, when sincere individuals do research on our beliefs, they may stumble across apostate propaganda. Even some Witnesses have unwittingly exposed themselves to this harmful material. In addition, apostates occasionally take part in television or radio programs. What is the wise course to follow in view of this?
10 The apostle John directed Christians not to accept apostates into their homes. He wrote: “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.” (2 John 10, 11) Avoiding all contact with these opponents will protect us from their corrupt thinking. Exposing ourselves to apostate teachings through the various means of modern communication is just as harmful as receiving the apostate himself into our homes. Never should we allow curiosity to lure us into such a calamitous course!—Proverbs 22:3.
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*** w98 5/1 pp. 21-22 Judgment Executed in the Low Plain of Decision ***
7 Our Bible-based faith will strengthen us to stand firm against hate campaigns stirred up by those who manifest the spirit of the “evil slave” of Matthew 24:48-51. Fulfilling this prophecy in a remarkable way, apostates are actively sowing lies and propaganda in many lands today, even conniving with some in positions of authority among the nations. Where appropriate, Jehovah’s Witnesses have responded, as described at Philippians 1:7, by ‘defending and legally establishing the good news.’ For example, on September 26, 1996, in a case from Greece, the nine judges of the European Court of Human Rights, at Strasbourg, unanimously reaffirmed that “Jehovah’s Witnesses come within the definition of ‘known religion,’” entitled to enjoy freedom of thought, conscience, and belief, and the right to make known their faith. As for apostates, God’s judgment states: “The saying of the true proverb has happened to them: ‘The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.’”—2 Peter 2:22.
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*** w86 10/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From Readers
· What is the fitting response of the congregation if someone leaves the true Christian faith and joins another religion?
Such a thing sometimes occurred in the first century. Thus it is understandable that it happens on occasion today. When it does, the congregation appropriately responds to protect the spiritual cleanness of the loyal Christians in it.
One dictionary defines apostasy as “renunciation of one’s religion, principles, political party, etc.” Another says: “Apostasy . . . 1 : renunciation of a religious faith 2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty.” Accordingly, Judas Iscariot was guilty of a form of apostasy when he abandoned the worship of Jehovah God by betraying Jesus. Later, others became apostates by deserting the true faith even while the apostle John and other early disciples were alive. John wrote: “They went out from among us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us.”—1 John 2:19.
What is to be done when a similar thing happens today? The elders, or shepherds, of the congregation might learn of a baptized Christian who has ceased associating with Jehovah’s people and who has apparently become associated with another religion. In harmony with Jesus’ words about being concerned about any stray sheep, the spiritual shepherds should be interested in helping such a person. (Matthew 18:12-14; compare 1 John 5:16.) But what if the shepherds designated to look into the matter determine that the person no longer wants to have anything to do with Jehovah’s people and is determined to remain in a false religion?
They would then simply announce to the congregation that such one has disassociated himself and thus is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Such a person would have ‘abandoned his previous loyalty,’ but it is not necessary for any formal disfellowshipping action to be taken. Why? Because he has already disassociated himself from the congregation. Likely he is not trying to maintain contact with his former brothers so as to persuade them to follow him. For their part, the loyal brothers are not seeking fellowship with him, since ‘he went out from them, for he was not of their sort.’ (1 John 2:19) Such a disassociated person who ‘has gone out from us’ might begin to send letters or literature promoting false religion or apostasy. That would underscore that the individual definitely ‘is not of our sort.’
The Scriptures warn, though, that some would try to remain among God’s people and there attempt to mislead others. The apostle Paul advised: “From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” (Acts 20:30) He pointedly warned Christians ‘to keep their eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that they had learned, and avoid them.’—Romans 16:17, 18.
So if someone became a false teacher among true Christians, as did Hymenaeus and Philetus in Paul’s day, the shepherds of the flock would have to take protective steps. If the person rejected their loving admonition and continued to promote a sect, a committee of elders could disfellowship, or expel, such one for apostasy. (2 Timothy 2:17; Titus 3:10, 11) The individual brothers and sisters in the congregation would follow Paul’s direction to “avoid” the one who tried to “cause divisions.” John counseled similarly: “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.”—2 John 10.
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*** w93 11/1 p. 16 A King Profanes Jehovah’s Sanctuary ***
The King and the Covenant
15 The angel now says: “Those who are acting wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words.” (Daniel 11:32a) Who are these ones acting wickedly against the covenant? Again, they can only be the leaders of Christendom, who claim to be Christian but by their actions profane the very name of Christianity. During the second world war, “the Soviet Government made an effort to enlist the material and moral assistance of the Churches for the defence of the motherland.” (Religion in the Soviet Union, by Walter Kolarz) After the war, church leaders tried to maintain that friendship despite the atheistic policy of the power that was now king of the north. Thus, Christendom became more than ever a part of this world—a disgusting apostasy in Jehovah’s eyes.—John 17:14; James 4:4.
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*** w93 11/1 pp. 17-18 A King Profanes Jehovah’s Sanctuary ***
A Cleansing for God’s People
19 Not all who manifested an interest in serving God during this time had good motives. The angel warned: “Many will certainly join themselves to them by means of smoothness. And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and to do a whitening, until the time of the end; because it is yet for the time appointed.” (Daniel 11:34b, 35) Some showed an interest in the truth but were not willing to make a genuine dedication to serve God. Others who seemed to accept the good news were really spies for the authorities. A report from one land reads: “Some of these unscrupulous characters were avowed Communists who had crept into the Lord’s organization, made a great display of zeal, and had even been appointed to high positions of service.”
20 The infiltrators caused some faithful ones to fall into the hands of the authorities. Why did Jehovah allow such things to happen? For a refining, a cleansing. Just as Jesus “learned obedience from the things he suffered,” so these faithful souls learned endurance from the testing of their faith. (Hebrews 5:8; James 1:2, 3; compare Malachi 3:3.) They are thus ‘refined, cleansed, and whitened.’ Great rejoicing awaits such faithful ones when the appointed time arrives for their endurance to be rewarded. This will be seen when we discuss more of Daniel’s prophecy.
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*** w96 2/1 p. 24 Trust in Jehovah and His Word ***
It is of interest that many who have become victims of apostasy got started in the wrong direction by first complaining about how they felt they were being treated in Jehovah’s organization. (Jude 16) Finding fault with beliefs came later. Just as a surgeon acts quickly to cut out gangrene, act quickly to rout out of the mind any tendency to complain, to be dissatisfied with the way things are done in the Christian congregation. (Colossians 3:13, 14) Cut off anything that feeds such doubts.—Mark 9:43.
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*** w93 10/1 p. 19 “Search Through Me, O God” ***
15 Regarding them, the psalmist said: “Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies.” (Psalm 139:21, 22) It was because they intensely hated Jehovah that David looked on them with abhorrence. Apostates are included among those who show their hatred of Jehovah by revolting against him. Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah.
Some apostates profess to know and serve God, but they reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word.
Others claim to believe the Bible, but they reject Jehovah’s organization and actively try to hinder its work.
When they deliberately choose such badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of their makeup, then a Christian must hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have inseparably attached themselves to the badness.
True Christians share Jehovah’s feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they “feel a loathing” toward those who have made themselves God’s enemies, but they leave it to Jehovah to execute vengeance.—Job 13:16; Romans 12:19; 2 John 9, 10.
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In final analysis, why so much difference concerning King Solomon’s apostasy
and other apostates in Israel and during the 1 st century C.E. ??
Why was is not stoned to death? Why all his concubines, mistresses, wifes were
allowed to pursue their own – personal – form of worship, without any problem??
As for today, concerning most of the “ apostates” , by the WTBS ‘ own definition,
their “real sin” is to be in disagreement with one or more of the “ particular teachings”
that the WTBS has taught, modified, reinvented, nullified and changed again and again during her history of the last 120 years or if you prefere since the early 1870’s from the beginning of the activity of the late Charles Taze Russell.
Many who today are committing the atrocious and horrible crime of – pedophilia – are even
covered, protected…hidden by the mighty WTBS Inc. but all those that are ‘unmasking’ the
pack of lies taught in the past and taught still today , in the name of Jehovah and Jesus Christ
are labelled ‘ apostates’ and worthy of – eternal destruction -!!!
I think it’s all for now.
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
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26
Top Ten Signs Your Congregation May Be Dying
by metatron innot necessarily in order of importance:.
number one: your theocratic ministry school had a "a", "b", and "c" school.
other clues: many of the elder's wives aren't even in it.
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MacHislopp
Hello metatron,
thanks for you excellent topic.
Well you have my word...it's 100% spot on!
Btw the congos are not dying...but gently
fading away.
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
(back from a long trip..)
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18
Christendom s destruction ... by the United Nations
by MacHislopp injust few more comments about the june 1st article.
above all else , please focus on paragraph 11:
these will hate the harlot [false religion] and will make her devastated and naked,
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MacHislopp
Hello everyone,
Just a few more comments.
Twinkletoe: Thanks for the appreciation. I'm glad that you have
found the material useful.
Wannaexit: I do hope that …it will shed some "light "!
Let's us know of any outcome.
Greven and Francois:
A good point/reasoning indeed for many …visitors.
Furthermore it could develop into a 'biblical dilemma'
for the "story" writers at the WTBS' Inc. Headquarters,
for the simple reason that writing things such as:
"The Watchtower” June 1st, 2003 , page 20 § 11
STAND STILL AND SEE THE SALVATION OF JEHOVAH!
"Take your position, stand still and see the salvation of Jehovah in your behalf."
--2 Chronicles 20:17.
…..
Who Will Lead Gog's Attack?
11: Gog of Magog is identified as Satan the Devil in his debased condition since 1914.
As a spirit creature, he cannot
carry out his attack directly,
but will use human agencies to do his deeds. "
goes against the testimony of the Bible, as we can all read in
*** Rbi8 Job 1:7-12
7 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where do you come from?” At that Satan answered
Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.”
8 And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: “Have you set your heart upon my servant
Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright,
fearing God and turning aside from bad?” 9 At that Satan answered Jehovah and
said: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? 10 Have not you yourself put up
a hedge about him and about his house and about everything that he has all
around? The work of his hands you have blessed, and his livestock itself has
spread abroad in the earth. 11 But, for a change, thrust out your hand, please,
and touch everything he has [and see] whether he will not curse you to your
very face.” 12 Accordingly Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he
has is in your hand. Only against him himself do not thrust out your
hand!” So Satan went out away from the person of Jehovah."
It is clear that Satan went and attacked Job …but sparing his life.
This point is largely commented by the WTBS in:
*** it-2 81 Job
*** Job’s Integrity. Job’s integrity to Jehovah was challenged by Satan.
Then Jehovah, with confidence in that integrity and knowing His own
ability to recover and reward Job, permitted Satan to test Job’s
integrity to the limit, but he did not allow Satan to kill Job. Although
Satan, through various means, took away first Job’s livestock and
servants and then his children (Job 1:13-19), Job never charged
God with folly or wrongdoing. "
The WTBS Inc. also commented :
*** w76 12/15 756 Gain the Promised Eternal Life-Exercise Faith! ***
5 The Dragon, Satan the Devil, and his demon army have been
restrained from materializing visibly in the flesh in order to wage
war on Jehovah’s Christian witnesses of today. Hence, they are
obliged to use earthly agents under their unseen control,
worldly persons, organizations and political governments. "
and this:
*** rs 388 Spiritism ***
Are wicked spirits able to take on human form?
In the days of Noah, disobedient angels did take on human form.
They actually married, and they fathered children. (Gen. 6:1-4)
However, when the Flood came, those angels were forced back
into the spirit realm. Regarding them, Jude 6 says: “The angels
that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper
dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense
darkness for the judgment of the great day.” Not only did God
abase them from their former heavenly privileges and consign
them to dense darkness regarding Jehovah’s purposes, but the
reference to bonds indicates that he has restrained them. From
what? Evidently, from taking on physical bodies so they could
have relations with women, as they had done before the Flood.
The Bible reports that faithful angels, as messengers of God,
did materialize in the performance of their duties down until the
first century C.E. But following the Flood, those angels that had
misused their gifts were deprived of the ability to take on human form."
The WTBS Inc., also related « experiences « such as :
*** g82 10/22 22-3 "Why Did the Clock Stop When Grandpa Died?" ***
It is evident that these “wicked spirit forces” sometimes use the time
of a person’s death to upset and frighten relatives with unpleasant
experiences. A lady in Stockholm, Sweden, says: “After my husband’s
death I was repeatedly awakened at night by sharp bangs on the
floor of my bedroom. It was as if somebody were throwing steel balls.
You can see the round splintered dents there on the parquet flooring.
The TV-set was also bombarded in the same way. One night I was
awakened by some loud cracks in the air above my bed. I was extremely
frightened.”
Others have had pleasant experiences, however. For example, a
woman described how her recently deceased husband appeared to
her at night and talked to her. She said he looked very nice and wore
beautiful clothes.
A similar experience was told by another woman: “Soon after my husband’s
death he appeared in front of me in a room. One half of the room was dark
and the other half was bright. Seeing him there in the bright half of the room
playing the guitar convinced me that he was now living in a bright and pleasant place.”
A man told this experience: “I lived alone with my mother for many years.
She used to take care of the home and the cooking. One day after her
death when I was resting on a sofa, I heard her call from the kitchen: “Come
and eat! The meal is ready!” First I thought I had dreamed, but there was
a warm, well-prepared meal right on the table.”
The question arises: Can wicked agents of Satan engage in such pleasant
activities? God inspired the apostle Paul to give a very simple answer,
saying: “There is nothing surprising about that; Satan himself masquerades
as an angel of light. It is therefore a simple thing for his agents to masquerade
as agents of good.” (2 Corinthians 11:14, 15, New English Bible) To deceive
and mislead people, the demons often appear to be nice and helpful.—1 Timothy 4:1.
Freedom From ‘Wicked Forces’
Anyone with similar experiences who wants to be free from the influence of
‘wicked forces’ should turn to Jehovah God for help. Jesus Christ taught
his followers to pray to God: “Deliver us from the wicked one.” (Matthew 6:13)
God hears prayers that come from a pure heart. “The eyes of Jehovah are
upon the righteous ones, and his ears are toward their supplication.”
—1 Peter 3:12; Proverbs 15:29."
And :
*** g75 2/8 11 The Ouija Board-How Can It Affect You? ***
A Pennsylvania woman tells of an experience in her family as a result of
using a Ouija board:
“It told us many lies but it also told us many things which were true. . . .
Then one night when we were all in bed, my mother was having her usual
bedtime snack before turning in. All of a sudden we heard a crash, a yell
and a cat hissing and spitting and running like mad around the kitchen.
When we got up to see what was wrong, we found my mother on the floor,
tea spilled all over her and the cat half out of its mind.
“Immediately we got out the Ouija board . . . We asked, ‘What
happened?’ Answer: ‘I broke your mother’s chair and I scared the cat.’
‘Why?’ ‘For fun.’ ‘Who are you?’ Then this thing slowly spelled out ‘D-e-v-i-l.’ . . .
“It also (previously) made many indecent proposals to my sister, spelled
out filthy words, and scared her half to death!”
and finally this one…:
(from the book : "Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life"
published in 1995 )
*** kl 113-4 12 Resist Wicked Spirit Forces ***
FROM ATTRACTING TO ATTACKING
12 When you comply with the counsel of God’s Word regarding
spiritism, you spurn the bait of the demons. (Compare Psalm 141:9,
10; Romans 12:9.) Does this mean that wicked spirits will stop trying
to capture you? By no means! After tempting Jesus three times, Satan
“retired from him until another convenient time.” (Luke 4:13) Similarly,
obstinate spirits not only attract people but also attack them.
13 Recall our earlier consideration of Satan’s attack on God’s servant Job.
The Devil caused the loss of his livestock and the death of most of his servants.
Satan even killed Job’s children. Next, he struck Job himself with a painful
disease. But Job kept his integrity to God and was greatly blessed.
(Job 1:7-19; 2:7, 8; 42:12) Since then, the demons have made some
people speechless or blind and have continued to revel in the suffering
of humans. (Matthew 9:32, 33; 12:22; Mark 5:2-5) Today, reports show
that demons sexually harass some and drive others to insanity. They
incite still others to murder and suicide, which are sins against God.
(Deuteronomy 5:17; 1 John 3:15)"
I'm sure that the selected quotes…will provoke some
reasoning even from some …'permafrosted 'brains!
Greetings, J.C. MacHislopp