Hello Randy,
from all over Europe: Get well soon,
greetings,
J.C. MacHislopp
MacHislopp
JoinedPosts by MacHislopp
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86
A Note from Randy/Dogpatch (Freeminds)
by Lady Lee inthis past week randy was hospitalized.
he is now home recovering and has asked me to let you know that he will need a couple of days to recuperate.
in the mean time: if you have sent him emails or want to send him an email, it might take a couple of days for him to respond.. feel free to leave messages here for him.
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72
Why No Disfellowshipping Before 1952?
by blondie inwhy was there no official arrangement before 1952 to disfellowship people?
was there a different procedure with a different name?
was no one committing disfellowshipping offenses?
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MacHislopp
Hello Blondie,
above all thanks for your excellent comments and researches. I do really appreciate ypur efforts.
Btw I'm ...cruising along not too bad at the moment, and I do regularly read the Board .
I think that this collection of quotes might be useful.(with aknowlegment to the author(s)
Here we go:
Disfellowship
There was some disfellowshipping prior to 1952, but it was since that year that it was instituted in its present form.
Brother Charles Taze Russell promoted leniency in all but the gravest matters. In such situations an unrepentant person was judged not by a judicial committee by the entire congregation, in line with Matthew 18:17;
“If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.”
Studies In the Scriptures Series VI - The New Creation p.289
“The administration of discipline is not the function of the elders only, but of the entire Church. … Thus it is evident that the Elders were in no sense to be judges of the members—hearing and judgment were left to the local body, or Church.”
If the congregation came to a near unanimous decision to disfellowship, the unrepentant sinner was not shunned but treated as a heathen.
Studies In the Scriptures Series VI - The New Creation p.290
“Indeed, even if the transgressor refuse to hear (obey) the decision of the entire Church, no punishment is to be inflicted or even attempted. What then? Merely the Church is to withdraw from him its fellowship and any and all signs or manifestations of brotherhood. Thenceforth the offender is to be treated “as a heathen man and a publican.” Matt. 18:17”
Then, many decades later, Brother Nathan Knorr (then President of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society of New York. Inc. ) set up the disfellowshipping arrangement followed to this day, moving responsibility to judge an individual from
the congregation
to judicial committees
in the year 1944.-
In 1952 a Watchtower study was devoted to delivering clear guidelines and clarifying what was to become an ever increasing list of offenses .
(The Watchtower, May 15 th , 1944, page 151)
For every 100 active Jehovah's Witnesses more than 1 is disfellowshipped each year, between 30 to 40,000 each year.
Two out of every three are never reinstated.
Being disfellowshipped regularly results in serious emotional side affects. Those that continue to believe Society’s doctrine are told that whilst disfellowshipped they are condemned to everlasting destruction. Those who become unbelievers, with no intention of returning to the Society, i.e. returning their association with any Jehovah’s Witnesses congregation, realise they are unlikely to ever freely associate with Witness family and friends for the remainder of their lives.
The Watchtower 1981 September 15 p.22 explains that “ “disfellowshiping” is what Jehovah’s Witnesses appropriately call the expelling and subsequent shunning of such an unrepentant wrongdoer”.
The article goes as far as to say that “a simple “Hello” to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?”
Though there is scriptural precedence to avoid brothers practicing wrongdoing the Watchtower application of disfellowshipping seriously deviates from Bible guidelines. The Watchtower Society greatly extends Biblical guidelines in a number of ways;
- 2 John 10 says not to ‘greet’ the Antichrist. The Society uses this single scripture to support not saying “hello” to a disfellowshipped person.
- The Society forbids practices never even discussed in the Bible (such as smoking, gambling and having a blood transfusion) and then demands shunning of members that engage in such practices
- Disfellowshipping is extended to prevent immediate family members associating with their disfellowshipped relatives
- The punishment applies forever, or until the Society , by means of any Jehovah’s Witnesses congregation formally reinstates the person. It is considered irrelevant whether the person no longer practices the wrongdoing they were disfellowshipped for.
The Society’s application of disfellowshipping is one of the more extreme in Christianity and emulates behavioural characteristics common amongst high control groups such as Mormons and Scientologists; with only the Amish imposing this principle with more destructive effects.
It was not until 1952 that the Society introduced disfellowshipping as now practiced and the following review of the scriptural principles involved shows that there is no Biblical justification for this unchristian form of manipulation.
Bible guidelines on disfellowshipping
The Society divides punishment of wrongdoers into two categories, those deserving of “marking” and those deserving of “disfellowshipping”. Marking is applied to mild wrongdoing. (“not yet gross sin for which they might be disfellowshipped” w92 2/1 p.31)
When a person is ‘marked’ they are not named and are allowed to continue contact with others. Only those who specifically know of the persons wrongdoing are advised to “stop associating” with the person socially, but may still speak to them at the meetings. On the other hand, a disfellowshipped person is publicly named and must be avoided by all Witnesses in almost all circumstances.
The Bible never uses the term “disfellowshipping” and makes no such distinction from “marking”.
Examining the scriptures that the Watchtower uses to justify disfellowshipping makes it apparent that the Society application of marking is more closely aligned with what the Christian writers prescribed for wrongdoers.
Jesus himself introduced the standard on how wrongdoers should be treated, saying at Matthew 18:15-17 “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.”
Jesus did not say to never utter a word to an unrepentant wrong doer but to treat them “as a tax collector”. He himself spoke to and ate with tax collectors. (Matthew 9:11).
The majority of information on how to treat wrongdoers within the congregation comes from the apostle Paul. Paul showed a balanced approach advising not to socialise with a wrongdoer but to still ‘admonish as a brother’. 2 Thessalonians is key to understanding that wrongdoers should be marked, not disfellowshipped.
2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14-15 “Now we are giving YOU orders, brothers, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition YOU received from us…. 14 But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. 15 And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.”
The “word through this letter” at 2 Thessalonians included those not glorifying “the name of our Lord Jesus”, those refusing to work for a living, and any who had been seduced by apostasy.
The apostle Paul did not say to disfellowship such people, but rather instructed the congregation to ‘mark’ or ‘take note of’ such a person, yet “continue admonishing him as a brother”. Hence Paul did not indicate that marking was only for non-serious sin.
At 1 Corinthians Paul specifically outlined practices for which to cease ‘mixing’ with a brother. Yet this too is similar to the advice given when marking a brother.
1 Corinthians 5:11 “But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.””
1 Corinthians does not say to totally shun a brother who is a wrong doer, rather it says to ‘quit mixing in company’ with such a person and ‘not eat with’ such a man and hence refers to socialising as friends.
This statement does not state that this type of person must never be spoken to, and is specific as to who these words apply to. This advice is in regards to a person ‘called a brother’ who ‘is’ a wrongdoer. No indication is given that they should be avoided many years later when they are no longer recognised as a Jehovah’s Witness.
Nor does it say to shun a person who has stopped their wrongdoing. It is regularly the case that a teenage Witness is disfellowshipped for smoking or fornication. Years later they no longer practice the sin they were disfellowshipped for and are no longer known in the community as a brother, and so their continued shunning is unjustified.
The Society’s policy on the treatment of every disfellowshipped Jehovah’s Witness is not based on any of the above scriptures, but rather on a single statement at 2 John 7-11;
“For many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. Look out for yourselves, that YOU do not lose the things we have worked to produce, but that YOU may obtain a full reward. 9 Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.”
2 John is referring to The Antichrist and should not be applied across the board to all form a sin as done by the Society Importantly, John’s advice here was not limited to former Christians. It included ‘anyone’ denying Christ. This included Jews that rejected Jesus and people of the nations worshipping other Gods. Yet the Society stance is to apply this only to Jehovah's Witnesses.
The meaning of the phrase “never receive him into YOUR homes” should be understood in the context of the hospitality of first century Jerusalem. Since Christians held congregation meetings in their homes John possibly felt that inviting a denier of Christ into a home could be viewed as sharing worship with non-Christians.
Likewise the term to never “say a greeting” to him needs to be understood in light of first century practice. It is wrong for the Society to claims that John used the term ‘a greeting’ to indicate a simple hello.
The Watchtower 1988 May 15 p.27 “John here used khai´ro, which was a greeting like “good day” or “hello.” (Acts 15:23; Matthew 28:9) He did not use a·spa´zo·mai (as in verse 13), which means “to enfold in the arms, thus to greet, to welcome” and may have implied a very warm greeting, even with an embrace. (Luke 10:4; 11:43; Acts 20:1, 37; 1 Thessalonians 5:26) So the direction at 2 John 11 could well mean not to say even “hello” to such ones.”
This article claims the word khairo is used to forbid a simple greeting, instead of aspazomai which means a more affectionate embrace, enfolding in the arms, kiss, greeting or welcome. The writer seems to be confused as the very opposite is true. Strong’s states;
- 5463 chairo {khah'-ee-ro}
- 1) to rejoice, be glad
- 2) to rejoice exceedingly
- 3) to be well, thrive
- 4) in salutations, hail!
- 5) at the beginning of letters: to give one greeting, salute
- 783 aspasmos {as-pas-mos’} 1) a salutation, either oral or written
2 John does not indicate a polite greeting is wrong.
The apostle John here shows that a person is a sharer in the Antichrist’s wicked works if he shows acceptance and agreement with the evildoers cause or teachings, or wishes them favour and success.
The Society uses this single scripture in 2 John to dictate that every disfellowshipped or disassociated person should not even be politely greeted. This is applied regardless of what the person was disfellowshipped for, including a long list of Society originated rules such as gambling, smoking, or authorising a blood transfusion.
Every single one of a disfellowshipped person’s Witness friends is told to never greet them again, unless they repent and are formally reinstated by t the Society .
There exist many former JW’s whose own mothers or their own children have not spoken to them for upwards of 20 years.
Yet such shunning is only ever discussed once, was only to apply to the Antichrist, and is being misused to its extremity.
Historical Watchtower Development
Disfellowshipping was not practiced, as already mention, in its current form by the Society until 1952.
Brothers C.T. Russell and J.F. Rutherford ((both former presidents of the Society), were lenient towards doctrinal disagreements, recognizing that making all followers think alike on doctrine is what originally caused the great apostasy and a method of control. See this quote :
The Watchtower , October 1 st ,1930 page 301
“Satans organization sails under the high-sounding name of "Christendom".
It boasts of a membership of over 500,000,000 persons. Its members are in bondage to creeds, customs, rites and ceremonies; they dare not disown these or criticize or expose them. To do so would bring down on their heads taunts, reproaches, disfellowship and persecution. Many thousands of the Lords people are held in these denominations as prisoners, afraid to express their disapproval of the creeds, methods and customs of the organization.”
The Watchtower 1952 March 1 pp.131,134
“We might wonder, then, since this congregation which God is developing or bringing into existence is based on love, why anyone should ever want to talk about disfellowshipping or putting people out of this congregation. There certainly must be some reason. Well, the reason for disfellowshipping is that some persons get into this congregation of God that do not love Christ. … Those who are acquainted with the situation in the congregation should never say ‘Hello’ or ‘Goodbye’ to him. He is not welcome in our midst, we avoid him. … Such an individual has no place in the clean organization or congregation of God. He should go back to the wicked group that he once came from and die with that wicked group with Satan’s organization.”
In The Watchtower, 1955 October 1 page 607, even to associate with a disfellowshipped person became a reason to be disfellowshipped;
“If a publisher refuses to do this and ignores the prohibition on associating with the disfellowshipped one, that publisher is rebelling against the congregation of Jehovah, and “rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as idolatry and teraphim. … If after sufficient warning the publisher persists in associating with the disfellowshipped person instead of aligning himself with Jehovah’s organization he also should be disfellowshipped.”
Members of the congregation are instructed to watch each other and alert the elders to any noticed indiscretions. With a degree of persuasiveness members are told that the Highest Level of authority demands they even break their countries law to report on their brothers.
The Watchtower 1987 September 1 p.13
“This command from the Highest Level of authority in the universe put the responsibility upon each Israelite to report to the judges any serious wrongdoing that he observed so that the matter might be handled. While Christians are not strictly under the Mosaic Law, its principles still apply in the Christian congregation. Hence, there may be times when a Christian is obligated to bring a matter to the attention of the elders. True, it is illegal in many countries to disclose to unauthorized ones what is found in private records. But if a Christian feels, after prayerful consideration, that he is facing a situation where the law of God required him to report what he knew despite the demands of lesser authorities, then that is a responsibility he accepts before Jehovah. There are times when a Christian “must obey God as ruler rather than men.”—Acts 5:29”
Since the introduction of disfellowshipping there have been a number of changes in the Society’s doctrine and hence the reasons for being disfellowshipped have also changed back and forth. How can this occur if an organization’s rules are directed by our God Jehovah? When a situation arises in a congregation that is not clearly specified in the Bible or a Society’s publication and the elders and branch feel unable to deal with it this is referred to the Governing Body.
How does the Governing Body arrive at a new principle for being disfellowshipped?
Does the Holy Spirit guide them to examine scripture and arrive at a uniform consensus on what God’s standard is?
No. When a new principle is discussed a vote is taken and the majority vote is held. The vote does not have to be unanimous. For this reason both the regulation on organ transplants and oral sex was able to be changed back and forth within the space of little over a decade, with huge affect on member’s lives.
For instance, the practice of smoking did not become a disfellowshipping offence until 1973. Having an organ transplant was an offence worthy of being disfellowshipped for over a decade, but is no longer viewed as wrong.
Oral or anal sex between married couples was classified as;
- a disfellowshipping offence – The Watchtower 1974 November 15 p.704
- no longer an offence - The Watchtower 1978 February 15 pp.30-32
- once again an offence – The Watchtower 1983 March 15 p.31
Total avoidance of the member is extended beyond members of the congregation and to ones immediate family.
The Watchtower 1988 April 15 p.27 What About Relatives? “
13 Cutting off from the Christian congregation does not involve immediate death, so family ties continue. Thus, a man who is disfellowshipped or who disassociates himself may still live at home with his Christian wife and faithful children…14 The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home. It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum, in line with the divine principle: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person [or guilty of another gross sin], . . . not even eating with such a man.”—1 Corinthians 5:11. 15 Understandably, this may be difficult because of emotions and family ties, such as grandparents’ love for their grandchildren. Yet, this is a test of loyalty to God, as stated by the sister quoted on page 26.” Watchtower 1963 July 15 p.444 “The wrongdoer has to realize that his status is completely changed, that his faithful Christian relatives thoroughly disapprove of his wicked course and show this disapproval by limiting contacts to only those which are unavoidable…”
It is quite shocking that under certain circumstances even a parent can be disfellowshipped for associating with their own disfellowshipped children.
”Pay Attention to Yourselves and all the Flock” page 103
“Normally, a close relative would not be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person unless there is spiritual association or an effort made to justify or excuse the wrongful course.”
The Society’s Reasons for Disfellowshipping
Bible discussion of shunning is limited to just the following areas; Fornication, Greed, idolatry, Revilers, Practicing Drunkenness, Extortion, Blasphemy and One who does not remain in the teaching of the Christ.
This list should be the full extent of reasons for which to be disfellowshipped. In fact, Diotrephes was reprimanded for attempting to disfellowship people unnecessarily.
3 John 9,10 “I wrote something to the congregation, but Di·ot´re·phes, who likes to have the first place among them, does not receive anything from us with respect. 10 That is why, if I come, I will call to remembrance his works which he goes on doing, chattering about us with wicked words. Also, not being content with these things, neither does he himself receive the brothers with respect, and those who are wanting to receive them he tries to hinder and to throw out of the congregation.”
The Society has created a vast list of offences for which a Jehovah’s Witness can be disfellowshipped or disassociated. The following abbreviations have been used for the publications referenced.
Kingdom Ministry (km) Watchtower (w) Jehovah’s Witnesses - Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom (1993) (jv) Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock (ks91-E) Organised to Accomplish Our Ministry (om) Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1 or 2 (it-1 or 2)
- Adultery (sexual intercourse with a person other than your marriage mate), includes;
- abandoning wife and eloping with another woman - w79 11/15 31-2, w76 p.728
- planned adultery to break Scriptural marriage ties - w83 3/15 p.29
- remarriage without Scriptural permission - w56 10/1 p.597
- polygamy - jv 176
- dating a person not legally divorced - ks91-E p.135
- Apostasy - w83 4/1 pp.22-4, km 8/80 pp.1, 4. includes;
- rebellion against Jehovah’s organization - w63 7/1
- promoting sects - it-2 886
- Associating with disfellowshipped people including;
- friends - ks91-E p.103, w81 9/15 pp.25-6, w55 10/1 p.607
- family - ks91-E p.103
- Blood and blood transfusions - w61 1/15 ks91-E p.95, jv p.183-4
- Drug use - ks91-E p.96
- Drunkenness - ks91-E p.95, it-1 656
- Dishonest business practices - w63 7/1, w86 11/15 14
- Employment violating Christian principles - km 9/76 p.6, km 2/74
- working for any religious organization - ks91-E p.95
- working in a gambling institution - ks91-E p.136
- selling tobacco - ks91-E p.96
- contract work at a military establishment
- False worship. Includes;
- attending another church ks91-E p.94
- following mourning customs that involve false worship - w85 4/15 p.25
- Fornication it-1 863
- bestiality - w83 6/1 p.25
- incestuous marriage - w78 3/15 p.26
- artificial insemination – g74 8/8 p.28
- sexual abuse of children - g93 10/8 p.10Reviling - ks91-E p.94, w96 7/15 pp.17-18; it-1 p.991; it-2 p.802
- Fraud - ks91-E p.94, om pp.142-3
- Gambling or related employment - w80 9/1, ks91-E p.136
- Gluttony - w86 5/1
- Greediness, this in used to include;
- gambling ks91-E p.95
- extortion ks91-E p.95, w89 1/15 22, it-1 p.789
- greed in relation to bride-price: w98 9/15 p.25
- Homosexuality - w83 6/1 pp.24-6
- Idolatry - w52 3/1 p.138
- Loose conduct - ks91-E pp.93, 96, w83 3/15 p.31, w73 9/15 p.574, it-2 p.264, ks91-E p.93, w83 3/15 p.31, w73 9/15 pp.574-6, w97 9/1 p.14, it-2 p.246. The principle of loose conduct is used to disfellowship for;
- disregard for Jehovah's moral standards
- disrespect, disregard or even contempt for standards, laws and authority, and as such is used to cover all manner of sins, such as refusal to cease fellowship with disfellowshipped people and showing disrespect to elders
- Lying - ks91-E p.94, g00 2/8 p.21
- Non neutral activities (involvement in politics and the military) - ks91-E p.96
- Military service and non military service including working casual work (certain civilian work has recently been made a conscience matter w96 5/1 p.20) - ks91-E p.96
- Obscene speech - ks91-E p.95
- Parents condoning immorality - w56 p.566
- Political involvement, including voting or holding a political card in Malawi - ks91-E p.96 John 6:15 Therefore Jesus, knowing they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone. (w99 11/1p.28 made this a conscience matter)
- Porneia. “It includes oral and anal sex or mutual masturbation between persons not married to each other, homosexuality, lesbianism, fornication, adultery, incest, and bestiality.” - ks91-E p.93
- Slander - ks91-E p.94, w63 7/1, w89 10/15 p.14, om p.142
- Smoking or selling tobacco - km 2/74, ks91-E p.96
- Spiritism (includes yoga w02 8/1 p.22) - w55 10/1 p.607
- Stealing, thievery - om pp.142-5, ks91-E p.94
- Subversive activity - w95 10/1 p.31
- Uncleanness
- sexually ‘perverse’ practices within marriage, such as oral and anal sex - w83 3/15 p.31
- heavy petting and breast fondling - ks91-E p.92
- touching of sexual parts - ks91-E p.91
- Violation of secular law if flagrant attitude - w86 10/1 p.31
- Violence, extreme physical abuse, fits of anger - ks91-E p.96, w75 p.287, g01 11/8 p.12
- Includes Boxing w81 7/1 pp.30-1, ks91-E p.142
- Wilful non support of family, endangerment of mate’s spirituality - w88 11/1 pp.22-3, km 9/73 p.8, ks91-E p.95
- Worldly celebrations such as Christmas - ks91-E p.95 (It appears celebrating birthdays is not a reason to be disfellowshipped)
Should the Society be creating decrees on what should be a disfellowshipping offence beyond what the Bible says? Of course not! The way Jesus felt about the Pharisees adding thousands of by laws to the commands of Moses is recorded at Matthew 12:1-10. “7However, if YOU had understood what this means, ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice,’ YOU would not have condemned the guiltless ones.”
Jesus continually condemned the Pharisees for creating laws for every situation, rather than understanding the meaning of mercy and Godly principles. When a Pharisee expressed surprise that Jesus did not do ritual washing before dinner Jesus’ rebuke was particularly harsh.
Luke 11:42 “‘But woe to YOU Pharisees, because YOU give the tenth of the mint and the rue and of every [other] vegetable, but YOU pass by the justice and the love of God!”
If God was directly speaking to the Governing Body as he did with the Apostles and if the Governing Body was infallible, then it would have authority to add to the scriptures. But by their admission this is not the case. The Governing Body is not infallible and not inspired by God to write additional rules that do not appear in the Bible. For this reason the list should be based strictly on scriptures discussing disfellowshipping.
Unscriptural Process
The process Jehovah's Witnesses follow for disfellowshipping strays from biblical principles in a number of areas.
Behind closed doors
In determining if a person should be disfellowshipped the elders form a judicial committee to meet with the ‘wrongdoer’. This is done in private, and the wrongdoer is not allowed an onlooker, lawyer or recording device.
Both the Israelites and early Christian congregations kept matters open to ordinary persons. Rather than being done in private in front of elders only, matters were done at the city gates so a fair discussion with onlookers could be made. This prevented the injustice that can take place before small closed bodies of elders.
‘The Watchtower ‘ 1976 December 1 page 732
“The Bible regulations and accounts indicate that cases of wrongdoing came before the city elders at the gates primarily when controversies were involved, as in cases where an offender would not acknowledge having wronged another, and also when the community as a whole was seriously affected or endangered by the wrongdoing.”
Reasons hidden
When the person was disfellowshipped or publicly reproved the congregation was to know why. Paul openly told the congregation of the wrong conduct of Peter, Hymenaeus, Alexander and Diotrephes.
To avoid legal problems, the Society does not follow this scriptural advice.
The extent of both the disfellowshipping and disassociating announcement is now stated in Organised to do Jehovah’s Will (2005) p.154 to be restricted to:
“[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
Speed of process
In the scriptures it makes no mention of a time limit over which the process must take place. It does indicate that quite some period of time may be involved;
Galatians 6:1 “Brothers, even though a man takes some false step before he is aware of it, YOU who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness, as you each keep an eye on yourself, for fear you also may be tempted.”
To readjust a brother could take considerable time. If a person is addicted to certain practices or if they are having doubts about doctrine it could take months of effort to overcome these. Yet in many cases when a Jehovah’s Witness confesses or another person reports their activities to the elders they are disfellowshipped within a few weeks.
Punishment
Shunning was to be used for readjustment or to protect the congregation. However it is regularly used as punishment. When a person confesses to a wrong practice committed and ceased many years ago they have often been disfellowshipped for a wrong attitude, which is clearly done for punishment.
Overly Harsh
A review of Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1 p.788 ‘Expelling’ shows that many scriptures that relate to disfellowshipping discuss assisting or reproving the person.
2 Corinthians 2:5-11 “5 Now if anyone has caused sadness, he has saddened, not me, but all of YOU to an extent—not to be too harsh in what I say. 6 This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man, 7 so that, on the contrary now, YOU should kindly forgive and comfort [him], that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad. 8 Therefore I exhort YOU to confirm YOUR love for him.”
Persons can be so traumatised by being disfellowshipped that many contemplate and carry out suicide. It is common to suffer Post Traumatic Shock Disorder. The harsh stance of the Society has a counter productive affect. Being Disfellowshipped has been the catalyst to cause many to doubt whether the Society, as a body , really represents the true religion. The trauma and effort involved in being reinstated that caused them to begin researching outside the Society’s publications and to come to the conclusion that the Society it is not God’s chosen way.
With many religions when a person no longer believes or is practicing sin they will tend to drift away from Church and associate with like minded individuals outside the congregation. This is how it is with unbaptised Witness youths; they leave over time, generally in their teens. Most that do not follow Watchtower guidelines or that do not believe it is the “truth” stop going to meetings. However disfellowshipping is a form of entrapment that forces baptised Witnesses, including myself to spend years going to meetings whilst not believing or adhering to some, or many of the Society’s imposed regulations.
This is done to avoid being disfellowshipped, in order to prevent being shunned by family. By encouraging people to stay and lead double lives disfellowshipping possibly results in more people being influenced than if the wrongdoers are encouraged to drift away.
Hatred
The direction given by the Society’s own publications , goes strongly against Christian examples when demanding members hate an apostate.
The Watchtower 1992 July 15 pp.12-13 Christ Hated Lawlessness—Do You?
“The obligation to hate lawlessness also applies to all activity by apostates. Our attitude toward apostates should be that of David, who declared: “Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you…”
TheWatchtower 1993 October 1 p.19 “Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah. Some apostates profess to know and serve God, but they reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible, but they reject Jehovah’s organization and actively try to hinder its work. When they deliberately choose such badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of their makeup, then a Christian must hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have inseparably attached themselves to the badness. True Christians share Jehovah's feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they "feel a loathing" toward those who have made themselves God's enemies, but they leave it to Jehovah to execute vengeance."
The Watchtower 1952 October 1 p.599
“11Haters of God and his people are to be hated, but this does not mean that we will take any opportunity of bringing physical hurt to them in a spirit of malice or spite, for both malice and spite belong to the Devil, whereas pure hatred does not. We must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme and active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest. Surely any haters of God are not fit to live on his beautiful earth. The earth will be rid of the wicked and we shall not need to lift a finger to cause physical harm to come to them, for God will attend to that, but we must have a proper perspective of these enemies. His name signifies recompense to the enemies.
Jesus and Paul both said we should not hate but rather love our enemies. This was to apply even when someone is attacking our faith and practice.
Matthew 5:44-45 "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust,"
Romans 12:17-21 “17 Return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends upon YOU, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says Jehovah.” 20 But, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals upon his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.”
When discussing a person seduced by apostasy Paul said at 2 Thessalonians 3:15 “And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.”
When discussing that for everlasting life it is necessary to love ‘your neighbor as yourself’, Jesus used the illustration of the Good Samaritan to explain who ones neighbour is. (Luke 10:25-37) The Jews regarded the Samaritans as apostates of the Jewish religion, yet Jesus says our love is to encompass these people as well.
Family
A former Jehovah’s Witness recalls:
“I was told that I could not speak with my own daughter due to sins for which she had been disfellowshipped, leveling an idiotic assumption that I was not mature enough to resist the potential gravity of her sinful life, and needed protection. For God's sake - she had sex without being married - nothing more or less. She was no danger to me or my integrity. And I was her father, the one she was supposed to turn to at times of need. At the time she needed the most support to get over 'normal human adolescent confusion and hormonal overkill' I was supposed to treat her as if she was 'dead'. was told that I could not speak with my own daughter due to sins for which she had been disfellowshipped, leveling an idiotic assumption that I was not mature enough to resist the potential gravity of her sinful life, and needed protection. For God's sake - she had sex without being married - nothing more or less. She was no danger to me or my integrity. And I was her father, the one she was supposed to turn to at times of need. At the time she needed the most support to get over 'normal human adolescent confusion and hormonal overkill' I was supposed to treat her as if she was 'dead'.
The New Testament never specifically extends shunning to immediate family members. Rather Paul stated at 1 Timothy 5:8 ”Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.”
Reinstatement Procedures
In the parable of the prodigal son Jesus outlined the type of love the Father has for us and that we should show each other. (Luke 15:11-32) The youngest child of a rich family spent years squandering his inheritance living a life involved in numerous contemptible sins. Jesus showed that despite this, on seeing his son return home the aged father ran to his child with open arms. He did not wait to question the son’s current actions, did not attempt to determine his son’s motives and repentance, nor give him a period of lower status as punishment.
Nowhere in the Bible does it discuss a detailed process for reinstatement, nor give a timeframe in regards to how long before reinstatement can take place. Paul simply stated that a person who ‘is’ a wrongdoer should be avoided. When they are no longer practicing the wrongdoing there is no reason to keep shunning them. The Watchtower specifies a period of time to pass, even though acknowledging the Christian example allows for shorter periods.
The Watchtower 1963 August 1 p.473 “If these necessary evidences of sorrow and change are present, then his reinstatement could be considered by the congregation committee after sufficient time had elapsed, which in most cases is at least a year.”
The Watchtower 1998 October 1 p.18 “Although it seems that the wrongdoer in Corinth was reinstated within a relatively short period of time, this is not to be used as a standard for all disfellowshippings.”
Though the scriptures give no legalistic approach to determine when a wrongdoer is to be associated with the Society has developed a formalistic procedure for determining if a person is worthy of having their disfellowshipped status removed. They must attend meetings regularly for several months whilst being shunned before an application for reinstatement will be considered. After this they must be examined by the elders to determine if they have ceased the wrongdoing and have a repentant attitude. Once this is determined a public announcement is made. Only after this procedure and announcement are family members and others within the congregation free to talk to that person.
Take the fairly common example of an engaged couple that commit fornication in the weeks prior to their wedding. If discovered they may be disfellowshipped. Once married they are not immediately reinstated as time is made to pass before their request for reinstatement will be considered. They then are forced to go through the formal process of being deemed repentant. Yet on the day of their marriage they are no longer ‘fornicator’s’ as they are scripturally married. There is no scriptural reason they should no longer be associated with. That they are not automatically and immediately reinstated indicates that the Witness practice is based on punishment. This punishment extends for some months after their reinstatement until the elders determine they are worthy to once more participate at meetings.
Likewise, many are disfellowshipped as teenagers for drunkenness, smoking or immorality. Over the years they stop this behaviour, possibly marrying and having children. Scriptural principles show that since they are no longer practicing wrongdoing and are not known in the community as ‘a brother’ it is acceptable for them to be spoken to. On the other hand, Watchtower legislation dictates they must not be spoken to until they resume meeting attendance, apply for reinstatement, are approved and then had a public announcement made. For a high percentage of those raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses there is no desire to return to the Society organization and so this process is never initiated, meaning their family relationship is damaged for the remainder of their lives.
Once reinstated more rules have been created to outline what activities they may participate in. Over time they will be allowed to resume field service, then answering at meetings, then giving talks. It will be several years before they finally are in line for privileges such as pioneering or being considered a Ministerial Servant. The Bible writers gave no such rules.
Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock p.131 “Restrictions should be imposed to help the person see the need of continuing to make 'straight paths for his feet' and also out of consideration for the congregation's conscience.”
Sharing in the field service is restored when the individual is reinstated. Other privileges, such as commenting at meetings, handling parts on the program, and offering prayer at meetings, can be restored progressively when it is determined that the individual has progressed spiritually to the point that he is qualified and when it is judged by the elders that the extending of such privileges will not be offensive to the congregation.”
Kingdom Ministry 1986 August p.6 “A full year must have passed from the time a judicial reproof was given or since reinstatement following disfellowshipping before one could be considered for auxiliary or regular pioneer service.”
Kingdom Ministry 1970 December p.4 “If at one time a person had been disfellowshiped or disassociated, may he ever give a public talk? This might occur, but only after at least ten years from reinstatement. (For details see “The Watchtower,” 8/15/65, p. 497; “Lamp,” p. 121.)”
Baptized without understanding
Since 1985 the second Jehovah’s Witness baptism vow became;
The Watchtower 1985 June 1 p.30 “(2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?”
At baptism a person commits themselves to the Society’s organization, despite the word organization never appearing in the Bible. Few realise that they have committed their bedroom lives, work choices and life long relationship with family and friends to the organization. Terms such as “ecclesiastical government of Jehovah's Witnesses” are never used in the Society’s publications that are issued to the public, but are terms used within confidential letters to branches and the elders. Would as many people be baptised if they realised it was not only to Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Spirit that they were being baptised but to an ecclesiastical government that had the right to introduce any rule at any time?
When a person is baptised very few have even an inkling of the true history of the religion. No person that gets baptised has any idea of the full list of things that they could be disfellowshipped for as this list is unattainable, and many of the reasons are not clearly specified in the Bible. Most of the reasons are scattered through various Watchtower publications, but a newly interested one is rarely shown all of these. Neither do the Society ’s publications contain a full list of reasons for being disfellowshipped. Even people involved in the organization for years are generally unaware of all the reasons. In regards to disfellowshipping Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock states on p.100 that elders
“should also be sure to proceed in harmony with current information published in The Watchtower and in letters from the Society.”
Only elders have access to Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock and to these letters from the Society . Even elders do not get to know the guidelines for all situations as more difficult situations are discussed in letters specifically to the Bethel Branches. Most people are baptised with no knowledge that these books and letters even exist, let alone know what is contained in them.
Minors
It is particularly disturbing that the Society encourages children raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses to be baptised as minors. Even a pre-teenage child can get baptised and for the remainder of their life be subject to the principle of being disfellowshipped.
The Watchtower 1992 March 1 p.27
“In the summer of 1946, I was baptized at the international convention in Cleveland, Ohio. Although I was only six years of age, I was determined to fulfill my dedication to Jehovah. That summer I served as a pioneer for the first time.”
Baptism as a Jehovah’s Witness is a binding verbal contract with the Society and as such baptising minors is wrong both legally and scripturally. Never is the baptism of a minor mentioned in the Bible. Jesus was not baptised until he was 30 and Jews felt a person became an adult at 30. When Cornelius and his family were baptised it does not state that any non adults were baptised and there is no scriptural evidence of any children or teenagers ever being baptised. A child’s knowledge and ideas change dramatically between the teens and twenties, and for this reason the law protects the rights of minors. A minor is usually not permitted by law to enter contracts, drink, vote, join the army or marry.
When a person baptised as a minor chooses they no longer wish to be known as a Jehovah’s Witness they are regularly disfellowshipped. Once this happens that teenager may not associate freely with family or friends for the remainder of their life! Even a person that is still a child they can be disfellowshipped.
Pay Attention to Yourself and to All the Flock p.98 “When a baptized minor becomes involved in wrongdoing that threatens the cleanness of the congregation, the assigned committee should meet with such individual just as they would with any other member of the congregation.”
Hundreds of thousands or Witnesses are currently disfellowshipped and estranged from their families and friends. This has a dramatic effect on a person, often at a time when they most need help from others.
The Society claims love is one of its distinguishing factors. Jehovah’s Witnesses are a loving brotherhood. Total alienation from this brotherhood and being cast into the world builds fear of removal. At first glance this may seem justifiable. A comparison between how the Bible says to treat wrongdoers with how the Society enforces disfellowshipping shows the Organization has gone beyond the scriptures, using this for control over its members. One of Jesus’ greatest commands was to show love to one’s brother and to one’s neighbour (Luke 10:27). The doctrine on disfellowshipping puts serious question marks over any claim of love that Jehovah’s Witnesses attempt to make. "°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
Greetings to all,
JC MacHislopp
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6
Jehovah God , the Governing Body and the holy spirit
by MacHislopp infrom time to time i do try to post what i do consider interesting, thought provoking and also.
way to lift ...the veil the the society would like to remain in front of the eyes of the rank and file.. .
please do consider the following informations:.
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MacHislopp
Hello everyone,
from time to time I do try to post what I do consider interesting, thought provoking and also
way to lift …the veil the the Society would like to remain in front of the eyes of the “ rank and file”.
Please do consider the following informations:
1*Year of the event early 40’s (Information quoted in the year 1972)
*** w728/15p.502GodReadjuststheThinkingofHisPeople***
ADJUSTMENTS INUNDERSTANDINGTODAY
Like the governing body of the early Christian congregation, which was led progressively by Jehovah, handling matters as Jehovah allowed developments to take place, searching the Scriptures in order to direct the congregation according to Jehovah’s leading, so the governing body of the congregation does today. For example, the issue over blood began to arise particularly after 1937, when the first blood bank was established in Chicago, Illinois. Christian witnesses of Jehovah who became ill were faced with the question, Should I accept this form of therapy? Is it in harmony with God’s Word? A prayerful examination of the Scriptures was made, revealing God’s will in the matter.
2*Year of the event 1942 and 1948 (Information quoted in the year 1960)
*** w607/15p.444par.19StayingAwakewiththe“FaithfulandDiscreetSlave”***
19 Yes, the “faithful and discreet slave” was awake to the coming of 1914. In 1942 the “faithful and discreet slave” guided by Jehovah’s unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up. Such wakefulness was concerning events that unerringly took place three years later. At the 1958 Divine Will International Assembly amazing advance information in connection with Daniel’s prophecy was given about events to occur in the immediate future. Such evidence of spiritual foresight is recorded for us in the book “YourWillBeDoneonEarth.” Once again the “faithful and discreet slave” has been tipped off ahead of time for the guidance of all lovers of God. Surely one’s present security depends on his staying awake with the “faithful and discreet slave.”
3*Year of the event 2009 published by
“The Warwick Advertiser” November 25 th 2009, by Birgit Bogler
see (http://www.rickross.com/reference/jw/jw409.html)
(Information given officially by the Society to the r&f in the year 2012)
The Watchtower AUGUST 15, 2012 page 17
CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS
Guy Pierce of the Governing Body spoke next and acknowledged that all present were curious about our construction projects in New York State. He introduced a video showing developments at Wallkill, Patterson, and recently acquired sites in Warwick and Tuxedo, New York.
At Wallkill, a new residence due to be completed in 2014 will provide over 300 additional rooms.
There are plans to develop a 248-acre (100 ha)property at Warwick . “Although we are not yet certain of Jehovah’s will regarding Warwick ,” said Brother Pierce, “we are proceeding to develop the site with the intention of relocating the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses there.” Plans are also being made to use a 50-acre (20 ha) parcel of land situated six miles (10 km) north of Warwick to facilitate the staging of machinery and building material. “Once construction is permitted,we hope to complete the entire project within four years,” said Brother Pierce. “Then our property in Brooklyn can be sold.”
“Has the Governing Body changed its mind about the closeness of the great tribulation?”
asked Brother Pierce. “Not at all,” he answered. “ If the great tribulation interrupts our plans, that will be wonderful, absolutely wonderful!”
Just some questions:
*no more prayers to Jehovah…no more “ examination of the Scriptures … revealing God’s will in the matter”?
*the “faithful and discreet slave” no longer guided by Jehovah’s unerring spirit “ ?
*No longer the “faithful and discreet slave” has been tipped off ahead of time “?
*No longer “ evidence of spiritual foresight “ from the “faithful and discreet slave” ?
As some among you would say: inquisitive minds would like to know.
I do take this occasion to greet all of you with special greeting to those who sent me e-mails enquiring about my health, and I could not answer. Special greetings also to Blondie and Ozzie,.
J.C. MacHislopp
P.S. Please excuse my layout and the format.
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Regular pioneering ... not going to college or university is a wise decision that will make you happy. Watchtower June 15, 2012
by wannabefree infrom - the watchtower (simplified) june 15, 2012 pg.
25 par.
15. what goal should a young christian have while he is in school?.
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MacHislopp
Hello everyone,
I could not resist and inspite of poor health I would like to post a remeinder ...published by the mighty WTBS Inc
only...43 years ago!
1***
The Watchtower March 15 th1969 page 171
"Many schools now have student counselors who encourage one to pursue higher education after high school, to pursue a career with a future in this system of things. Do not be influenced by them. Do not let them "brainwash" you with the Devil's propaganda to get ahead, to make something of yourself in this world. This world has very little time left! Any "future" this world offers is no future! Wisely, then, let God's Word influence you in selecting a course that will result in your protection and blessing. Make pioneer service, the full-time ministry, with the possibility of Bethel or missionary service your goal. This is a life that offers an everlasting future!"
and 2 ***
Awake! 1969 May 22 nd page 15
"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years.
Of the generation that observed the beginning of the "last days" in 1914, Jesus foretold: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur."-Matt. 24:34.
Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!"
I'm sorry for the format, will you please excuse me.
All the best,
J.C.MacHislopp
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Will the Governing Body Ever Make a Big Enough Mistake?
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i am not scared of armageddon anymore.
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MacHislopp
Helo whatnow and all the others,
yours is an interesting , and truthful obeservation of facts. Unortunately I thought that something
would happen after the WTBS and UNO ...great deception. Now, more than 10 years later hope that :
***the pedophiles saga - thanks to W. Bowen and Barbara Anderson ;
*** the latest sales - in Brooklyn - and acquisition upstate in Warwick , for tens of millions and millions of dollars;
***the latest major changes/flip flop in doctrines, teaching, viewpoint, clarification including
the most idiotic and intelligence insulting 'teaching ' of the "overlapping generations"
will on the end contribute to th gradual collapse of the WTBS corporation.
Receive my greeting,
J.C. MacHislopp
P.S. Special greeting to my old friends....while I'm taking it easy due to my
poor and frail health.
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96
1874, 1914 and 1943
by TD ina persistent meme that floats around on jw related internet forums holds that christ's second coming was moved forward 40 years (i.e.
from 1874 to 1914) in the year 1943.
(this appears to be based primarily on a statment in the book god's kingdom of a thousand years has approached on page 209 and to a lesser degree, a footnote at the bottom of page 133 of the publication jehovah's witnesses - proclaimers of god's kingdom.).
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MacHislopp
Hello everyone,
A great post by TD .
After been away for a long time I would like to take this occasion to remind of one of my topics (posted on October 16 th 2003 ) …yes quite a long time ago, pertinent to TD material, with the title:
“1874 v. 1914 date change a masterpiece of forgery and deception!”
Part ONE : The WTBS Inc. worlwide teaching about the
1874's date since C.T. Russell;
Part TWO : The WTBS Inc. worldwide teaching about
the change of date, from 1874 to 1914;
Part THREE : The WTBS Inc. wordwide 'masquerade' and pathetic
revised / rewritten history concerning the two dates ;
Anyone is free to check the material. Greetings to everyone.
J.C. MacHislopp
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85
University student's JW based honors thesis research. PLEASE HELP!
by honorsthesis inhttps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/defectedmembers_honorsthesis.
hello community,.
my name is brett w., and i am senior undergraduate student at the university of florida.
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MacHislopp
Hello,
I would like to take part, but the link provided, is requasting a password.
Any solution?
Greetings,
J.C. MacHislopp
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17
WTBS Inc and George Orwell again!
by MacHislopp inyears, and a member of the congregational church and.
were held, to see if the handful who met there had anything.
page 209. july 1st.
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MacHislopp
Hello everyone,
Just more material on the same topic.
InterestedOne : concerning the - singing - please note, what the Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence published in the issue of May 1890:
[R1214 : page 3]
HARVEST GATHERING AND SIFTINGS.
A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE DEVELOPMENTOF PRESENT TRUTH.
...
... But confining ourselves to the consideration of the harvest truths set forth in MillennialDawn and Zion's Watch Tower,we begin the narrative at the year 1868, when the editor, having been a consecrated child of God for some years, and a member of the Congregational Church and of the Y.M.C.A .,began to be shaken in faith regarding many long-accepted doctrines. Brought up a Presbyterian and indoctrinated from the Catechism, and being naturally of an inquiring mind, I fell a ready prey to the logic of Infidelity as soon as I began to think for myself.
But that which at first threatened to be the utter shipwreck of faith in God and the Bible, was, under God's providence, overruled for good, and merely wrecked my confidence in human creeds and systems of misinterpretation of the Bible.
Gradually I was led to see that though each of the creeds contained some elements of truth, they were, on the whole, misleading and contradictory of God's Word.
Among other theories, I stumbled upon Adventism. Seemingly by accident, one evening I dropped into a dusty, dingy hall, where I had heard religious services were held, to see if the handful who met there had anything more sensible to offer than the creeds of the great churches. There, for the first time, I heard something of the views of Second Adventists from the preacher, Mr. Jonas Wendell, long since deceased.
Then compare the above ,with what MacMillan wrote , 67 years later - with N. Knorr's approval :
"Faith on the March " A.H. Macmillan 1957 Edition
(Page 16 16th - 22nd line)
SEEKING GOD'S WILL
...
Some have said that just such a chain of reactions was set in motion when, about 1870, a young man (whose life, later, had considerable influence on my own), upon hearing religious singing in a little dingy hall on one of the dark streets of Allegheny, Pennsylvania, turned aside and walked in.
(page 17 17th - 24th line)
Finally he left the Presbyterian Church because its teaching on doctrine was too
narrow; he joined the Congregational Church, which he found more liberal. He had become particularly interested in the Y.M.C.A. "There's the place I can work with other young men," he reasoned. He had never wanted to sit around the church looking pious or just listening to singing and someone preaching on matters that were unreasonable, horrifying and unlike a God of love. He wanted to be active-- trying to save men from going to eternal damnation. So he had worked and studied, continuing to search for the truth.
(page 19 9th-17th line)
THE BIBLE STRENGTHENS WAVERING FAITH
On this evening about 1870 he had been walking along one of the dark streets in Allegheny when he heard singing. He paused for a moment. Being young, he had an insatiable thirst for knowledge. As a reverential lad, he still had a desire for faith in the Supreme Being.
Kindly compare with what the Society wrote 54 years later :
**w10 12/15 pp.22-23 par.14 Sing to Jehovah!
14 One evening in 1869, C. T. Russell was returning home from work when he heard singing coming from a basement hall.
At that time in his life, he had despaired of ever finding the truth about God. So he had decided to devote himself to his business
interests, reasoning that if he made some money, he would at least be able to address the physical needs of people even if he
could not help them spiritually. Brother Russell entered the dusty, dingy hall and found that religious services were being held there.
He sat down and listened. He later wrote that what he heard that night “was sufficient, under God, to re-establish [his] wavering
faith in the divine inspiration of the Bible.” Notice that it was the singing that initially attracted Brother
Russell to the meeting.
For the other point i.e. C.T. Russell ' s reasoning , please note, what MacMillan wrote - with N. Knorr's approval :
"Faith on the March " A.H. Macmillan 1957 Edition
(page 18 15th-23rd line)
TRADITIONALISM ENCOURAGES INFIDELITY
Like many serious thinkers before and since, finding the traditional teachings of religious Christendom untenable, he was falling an easy prey to the logic of infidelity.
At the age of seventeen, then, this had become his conclusion:
"Now my father is in business here in Pittsburgh and is doing quite well. There is no use in my trying to find out anything reasonable about the future from any of the creeds or even from the Bible, so I'm just going to forget the whole thing and give all my attention to business. If I make some money I can use that to help suffering humanity, even though I cannot do them any good spiritually."
Kindly compare with what the Society wrote 54 years later :
***w10 12/15 pp.22-23 par.14 Sing to Jehovah
14 One evening in 1869, C. T. Russell was returning home from work when he heard singing coming from a basement hall. At that
time in his life, he had despaired of ever finding the truth about God. So he had decided to devote himself to his
business interests, reasoning that if he made some money, he would at least be able to address the
physical needs of people even if he could not help them spiritually. Brother Russell entered the dusty, dingy hall
and found that religious services were being held there. He sat down and listened. He later wrote that what he heard that night
“was sufficient, under God, to re-establish [his] wavering faith in the divine inspiration of the Bible.” Notice that it was the singing t hat initially attracted Brother Russell to the meeting.
The above examples prove that on certain things even H. MacMillan is unreliable and again, if need there was, that in the WTBS Inc. case, Georges Orwell was right .
“Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.”
Greetings to all of you,
J.C. MacHislopp
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17
WTBS Inc and George Orwell again!
by MacHislopp inyears, and a member of the congregational church and.
were held, to see if the handful who met there had anything.
page 209. july 1st.
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MacHislopp
Hello again ,
I wish to add another piece to the research. As far as I know, this issue of the Zion’s Watch Tower, May 1890 - therefore published 121 years ago - is the first to mention C.T. Russel own words : " I had heard that religious services were held " and " There, for the first time, I heard something of the views of Second Adventism, by Jonas Wendell " but again no mention of singing .
[R1211 : page 1]
VOL. XI. ALLEGHENY, PA., MAY, 1890. NO. 6.
Zion's Watch Tower
AND
HERALD OF CHRIST'S PRESENCE.
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PUBLISHED MONTHLY.
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TOWER PUBLISHING COMPANY.
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"BIBLE HOUSE:"
Arch Street, Allegheny, Pa., U.S.A.
C. T. RUSSELL, EDITOR.r1211 POEMS AND HYMNS OF DAWN.
r1212 VIEW FROM THE TOWER.
r1212 SENATOR BLAIR'S VIEW.
r1213 EXTRACTS FROM INTERESTING LETTERS.
r1214 MR. MOODY ON THE BIBLE.
r1214 THE SEVENTH TRUMPET.
r1214 PERILS AMONG FALSE BRETHREN. r1214 HARVEST GATHERING AND SIFTINGS. r1214 SIFTING THE WHEAT.
r1214 PUTTING OFF AND PUTTING ON.
r1215 A POINTED APPLICATION.
r1215 THE SUBSIDENCE OF MOUNTAINS.
r1213 AN EPISCOPAL BISHOP ON BAPTISM.
r1215 "ACCEPTED."[R1214 : page 3]
HARVEST GATHERING AND SIFTINGS.
A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE DEVELOPMENTOF PRESENT TRUTH.
Many are the inquiries relative to the truths presented in the TOWER and MILLENNIAL DAWN, as to whence they came and how they developed to their present symmetrical and beautiful proportions.-- Were they the results of visions? Did God in any supernatural way grant the solution of these, hitherto, mysteries of his plan? Are the writers more than ordinary beings? Do they claim any supernatural wisdom or power? or how comes this revelation of God's truth, any how?
…..
We give the following history not only because we have been urged to give a review of God's leadings in the path of light, but specially because we believe it to be needful that the truth be modestly told, that misapprehensions and prejudicial mis-statements may be disarmed, and that our readers may see how hitherto the Lord hath helped and guided us. In so far as the names and views of others, who have parted company with us, may be associated with this history, we shall endeavor to bring forward only such points as are necessary to an understanding of our position and of the Lord's leadings.
Nor can we name all the little points of divine favor in which faith was tested, prayers were answered, etc., remembering that our Master and the early church left no such example of boasting of faith, but rather admonished otherwise, saying, "Hast thou faith, have it to thyself." Some of the most precious experiences of faith and prayer are those which are too sacred for public display.
* * *
We will not go back to tell how the light began to break through the clouds of prejudice and superstition which enveloped the world under Papacy's rule in the dark ages. The reformation movement, or rather movements, from then until now, has each done its share in bringing light out of darkness.
But confining ourselves to the consideration of the harvest truths set forth in Millennial Dawn and Zion's Watch Tower, we begin the narrative at the year 1868, when the editor, having been a consecrated child of God for some years, and a member of the Congregational Church and of the Y.M.C.A., began to be shaken in faith regarding many long-accepted doctrines. Brought up a Presbyterian and indoctrinated from the Catechism, and being naturally of an inquiring mind, I fell a ready prey to the logic of Infidelity as soon as I began to think for myself.
But that which at first threatened to be the utter shipwreck of faith in God and the Bible, was, under God's providence, overruled for good, and merely wrecked my confidence in human creeds and systems of misinterpretation of the Bible.
Gradually I was led to see that though each of the creeds contained some elements of truth, they were, on the whole, misleading and contradictory of God's Word.
Among other theories, I stumbled upon Adventism. Seemingly by accident, one evening I dropped into a dusty, dingy hall, where I had heard religious services were held, to see if the handful who met there had anything more sensible to offer than the creeds of the great churches.
There, for the first time, I heard something of the views of Second Adventists from the preacher, Mr. Jonas Wendell, long since deceased.
[R1214 : page 4] Though his Scripture exposition was not entirely clear, and though it was very far from what we now rejoice in, it was sufficient, under God, to re-establish my wavering faith in the divine inspiration of the Bible, and to show that the records of the apostles and prophets are indissolubly linked. What I heard sent me to my Bible to study with more zeal and care than ever before, and I shall ever thank the Lord for that leading; for though Adventism helped me to no single truth, it did help me greatly in the unlearning of errors, and thus prepared me for the truth.
I soon began to see that we were living somewhere near the close of the Gospel age, and near the time when the Lord had declared that the wise, watching ones of his children should come to a clear knowledge of his plan.
At this time, myself and a few other truth-seekers in Pittsburgh and Allegheny formed a class for Bible study, and from 1870 to 1875 was a time of constant growth in grace and knowledge and love of God and his plan.
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
Greetings to all,
J.C. MacHislopp
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17
WTBS Inc and George Orwell again!
by MacHislopp inyears, and a member of the congregational church and.
were held, to see if the handful who met there had anything.
page 209. july 1st.
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-
MacHislopp
Hello again,
First of all many thanks for taking the time to ...read the material and add your personal touch. To reassure those who have commented on it, I do feel that slowly but gradually my health is improving. I do know that millions are suffering and I'm sure in worst condition than mine. So here I am again.
Now back to the post:
To DanaBug, OUTLAW , yourmomma, I do appreciate your comment.
Scully and Scott77 thank you for kind remarks.
Yesidid many thanks for your touching expression.
.
Baltar447 " Was this perhaps something he said in conversation and not wrote down" I thought of that reason in the first place. Please see my answer to Honesty below.
Honesty thanks for your comment and your research:
jv chap.5 p.43 Proclaiming the Lord’s Return (1870-1914)
***
The twig, though, had been trained by God-fearing parents; it was inclined "in the direction of the Lord." While he was still searching for truth, one evening in 1869, something happened that reestablished Charles’ wavering faith. Walking along near the Russells’ store on Federal Street, he heard religious singing coming from a basement hall. In his own words, this is what took place:
"Seemingly by accident, one evening I dropped into a dusty, dingy hall, where I had heard religious services were held, to see if the handful who met there had anything more sensible to offer than the creeds of the great churches. There, for the first time, I heard something of the views of Second Adventists [Advent Christian Church], the preacher being Mr. Jonas Wendell . . .
Here are my observations In all the quotes, when the Society refers to Charles Taze Russell's own words, they insert the brackets at the beginning and at the end. i.e.
jv chap.5 p.43 Proclaiming the Lord’s Return (1870-1914)
The twig, though, had been trained by God-fearing parents; it was inclined "in the direction of the Lord." While he was still....
and
"Seemingly by accident, one evening I dropped into a dusty, dingy hall, where I had heard religious services were held, ...".
Now when you examine the redaction of § 14 :
***w 10 12/15 pp. 22-23 par. 14 Sing to Jehovah!***
14 One evening in 1869, C. T. Russell was returning home from work when he heard singing coming from a basement hall. At that time in his life, he had despaired of ever finding the truth about God. So he had decided to devote himself to his business interests, reasoning that if he made some money, he would at least be able to address the physical needs of people even if he could not help them spiritually. Brother Russell entered the dusty, dingy hall and found that religious services were being held there. He sat down and listened. He later wrote that what he heard that night “was sufficient, under God, to re-establish [his] wavering faith in the divine inspiration of the Bible.” Notice that it was the singing that initially attracted Brother Russell to the meeting.
you will notice that the part - when he heard singing coming from ...- originates from the editor 's words. The Editor is telling the story in his own words. When the account become more personal like :
- He later wrote that what he heard that night ..-
than the Editor inserts the brackets because the words he is quoting i.e.
"... reestablish my wavering faith in the Divine inspiration of the Bible."
are taken from material already published in the Zion's Watch Tower of June 1st 1916, page 170 (R5909).
As a matter of fact when at the end of the paragraph the Editor writes :
Notice that it was the singing that initially attracted Brother Russell to the meeting.
he is unable to put any brackets because nowhere , even in the earliest biography and other publications, Charles Taze Russell says or mentions or even hints at the fact that - it was the singing that initially attracted - him.
Imho, if ever it existed a publication, with that proof , the Society's Editor of the December 15th 2010, article would have not failed to refer to it.
Furthermore, an even clearer example of what I'm saying can be seen on the material which I've added already into the research i.e.
yb 75 p.34 Part1—United States of America***
‘A DAY OF SMALL THINGS’
It is about 1870; the place, Allegheny City, Pennsylvania. Allegheny, which later became a part of Pittsburgh, is a city of many churches. One evening a young man of eighteen is walking along one of Allegheny’s streets. By his own later admission, he had been “shaken in faith regarding many long-accepted doctrines” and had fallen “a ready prey to the logic of infidelity.” But tonight he is attracted by some singing. He enters a dusty, dingy hall. His object? In his own words, “to see if the handful who met there had anything more sensible to offer than the creeds of the great churches.”
There you can see how the article's Editor every time is quoting C.T. Russell's words , inserts the brackets but NOT when he writes :
- he is attracted by some singing -
In conclusion and also to answer to Baltar447, until proved the contrary the - singing - stuff is a deceptive and baseless material which proves again, if need there was, that in the WTBS Inc. case, Georges Orwell was right .
“Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.”
Greetings to all of you,
J.C. MacHislopp
P.S. To InterestedOne : Thanks for your comment. I'll look into the matter including the 1957 book you're referring to and I'll reply as asoon as possible.