Hello Prisca and Ozzie,
thanks for your comments!
I'm preparing something else...!
Agape, J.C.MacHislopp
MacHislopp
JoinedPosts by MacHislopp
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4
WTS ' Attorney
by MacHislopp inlooking into an article concerning the wts use of u.s.a. postal services:.
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:e6gwqzsorhi:www.naa.org/ppolicy/postal/r2000-1-v2.pdf+phillip+brumley+counsel+for+watchtower&hl=en.
" united states of america postal rate commission.
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DON ADAMS BIOGRAPHY
by bj inwhat do you know about the new president of the wts, don adams?
(all anecdotes needed)
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MacHislopp
Hello everyone,
on this topic I've found something
quite strange: in the watchtower June 15 2001 pages
24,25 - Be Joyful with the Kingdom hope! - is mentioned"...Carey Barber, a member of the Governing Body of
Jehovah's Witnesses, welcomed all and opened..."then
"...following brother Barber's opening remarks, Don Adams
addresses the udience..."then later
"...still, Daniel Sydlik , a member of the
Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, encouraged them.."My question is: why no mention of brother Don Adam's
position among the Jehovah's Witnesses?Agape, J.C. MacHislopp
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JUSTICE #3 - Sin worse than Apostasy!
by Amazing ina sin worse than apostasy .
there was a very nice young couple in our congregation with one child.
no one could see why she should not be reinstated.
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MacHislopp
Hello Amazing,
a very, very sad story indeed.
After reading many of the answers, the nearest to the
I would have commented is from Ester:
"The poor sister must have so much love and patience in her heart to wait to get reinstated. How she must have suffered, and just because of the spite of intolerant, unbending elders. How dare they put "Not to be reinstated." on her card. What happened to the only unforgiveable sin being sin against the holy spirit? How does anyone dare to judge whether someone has committed the unforgiveable sin. I am so angry about this injustice."
Very true! How on earth those elders did believe to follow
" Christ loving exemple" ???
Agape, J.C.MacHislopp
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"THE GLORIOUS ONES" WT TWISTING THE ...
by ARoarer ini have been reading from other bibles and comparing them to the wt.
translation in the nwt and found it interesting that the information that they use in the reasoning book regarding apostates is taken from jude and the experience of korah with moses.
it seems they use this scripture to identify elders as the "glorious ones", and anyone speaking against the society is compared to korah speaking against moses.
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MacHislopp
Hello Scholar,
Many thanks for your quote:
"The possibility that doxas refers to human authorities, ecclesiastical or civil, can be ruled out at once, for it can make no good sense of vs.11. We must take doxas as in Jude 8, to refer to angelic powers". Word Biblical Commentary, JUDE, 2 PETER, Richard J Bauckham, 1983, Vol. 50, pp. 260 - 262; 57 - 58."
To be kept for further references.
To Maximus:
Thanks for the picture. By the style it reminds me of old Catholic
Bibles, with illustrations or praying books with special illustrations!Agape to you all, J.C. MacHislopp
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"Patterson" Pictures
by ZazuWitts insince registering with this forum, i have heard many mention the patterson complex.
having been 'out' since pre-1975, this facility was news to me.
came across this link, and thought i would share it with other.
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MacHislopp
Hello ZazuWitts,
thanks for the post. They give a better
idea of the entire complex.Agape, J.C.MacHislopp
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DON ADAMS BIOGRAPHY
by bj inwhat do you know about the new president of the wts, don adams?
(all anecdotes needed)
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MacHislopp
Hello everyone,
interesting topic. I'll prepare something
and come back. Agape, J.C.MacHislopp
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Elders appointed by Holy Spirit?
by LadyBug inamazings justice points brings me to this point.
elders truly believe that they are appointed by gods spirit.
so when they appoint someone who is:.
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MacHislopp
Hello Thirdson,
the funny thing is that very similar things...
almost identical ...did happen in other parts of Europe!
Where was ...the Holy Spirit??
Agape, J.C.MacHislopp
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WTS ' Attorney
by MacHislopp inlooking into an article concerning the wts use of u.s.a. postal services:.
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:e6gwqzsorhi:www.naa.org/ppolicy/postal/r2000-1-v2.pdf+phillip+brumley+counsel+for+watchtower&hl=en.
" united states of america postal rate commission.
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MacHislopp
Hello everyone,
Looking into an article concerning the WTS use of U.S.A. postal services:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:e6GwqZSOrhI:www.naa.org/ppolicy/postal/R2000-1-V2.pdf+phillip+brumley+counsel+for+watchtower&hl=en" UNITED STATES OF AMERICA POSTAL RATE COMMISSION
Washington, DC 20268-0001 November 13, 2000
andWATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK, INC. (Watchtower)* Phillip Brumley
WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK, INC. (Watchtower)
Watchtower is a nonprofit publisher of Periodicals publications.
It annually distributes 275 million copies of The Watchtower and Awake!
These are sent out in 50 million mail pieces per year via the United States Postal Service."
---------------------------------one cannot fail to notice a name: Philip Brumley Counsel fo the WTB&TS !
This rings a bell, …further reasearch and …yes it is him, the same person who many
years ago ( early 1990s ), in his function as WTS attorney wrote concerning the
Society's legal right to disfellowship a person.He wrote this:
*** I represent the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., the parent
organisation of the congragations of Jehovah's Witnesses throughout the United
States.C. Relation between the Congregations and its members. It is axiomatic that the essence
of the relationship of a religious society with its members is held by the courts to be the
agreements of the parties, and generally, a profession of faith, adherence to the doctrine
of the religious society and submission to its government. 76 C.J.S. Religious Societies
11 (1952). A party having voluntarily assented to become a member of a congregation
thereby nsubjects himself or herself to the existing rules and procedures of said congre-
gation and cannot deny their existence. All who unite themselves to such a voluntary
religious organisation do so with the implied consent to this government and are bound
submit to it…"Quite strong, legalistic words which call for some observations:
° Many years ago the term " religious, religion" etc. was referred exclusively to the
false " worship "….but today the recognition of " beeing an organized religion "
brings, in many countries…numerous a d v a n t a g e s !° In all these words, where is Jehovah, Jesus Christ etc.,
° I do not remember having see any of this , in any of the WTS publications avalaible
in every KH, including the Ks manual for eleders! The latest mention of the grounds,
motives for the disfellowshipping action are mentioned in:w98 3/15 22 Living Up to Christian Dedication in Freedom
16 But if decisions as to conduct are a personal matter, why are some of Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped? Nobody arbitrarily determines that the practice of a particular sin requires disfellowshipping. Rather, this action is Scripturally required only when a member of the congregation unrepentantly engages in gross sins, such as those enumerated in the 5th chapter of First Corinthians. Thus, while a Christian may be disfellowshipped for practicing fornication, this occurs only if the individual refuses to accept the spiritual assistance of loving shepherds. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not alone in following this Christian practice. The Encyclopedia of Religion notes: “Any community claims the right to protect itself against nonconforming members who may threaten the common welfare. In a religious setting this right has often been reinforced by the belief that the sanction [of excommunication] affects one’s standing before God.”
As one can see this article does not mention any of the things stated by the WTS
attorney Philip Brumley.Nor these articles , which mention "… elders do hold discussions with those desiring to be baptized. " and " review …the questions …"
*** w96 1/15 17 Jehovah's Sheep Need Tender Care
9 As an unbaptized publisher progresses spiritually, he may make a dedication to God in prayer and want to be baptized. (Compare Mark 1:9-11.) He should make his desire for baptism known to the congregation’s presiding overseer, who will arrange for elders to review with the publisher the questions on pages 175 to 218 of Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry.The four parts into which the questions are divided may be covered in three sessions by three different elders if possible. If they agree that the unbaptized publisher has a reasonable understanding of Bible teachings and qualifies in other ways, they will tell him that he may be baptized. As a result of his dedication and baptism, he becomes ‘marked’ for salvation.—Ezekiel 9:4-6.
*** w89 1/15 17 How Baptism Can Save Us
9 Jehovah’s Witnesses do not follow unscriptural writings, such as that just quoted, but elders do hold discussions with those desiring to be baptized. Why? To make sure that these persons are believers who meet divine requirements and who have made a dedication to Jehovah. (Acts 4:4; 18:8; 2 Thessalonians 3:2)
Discussing questions in the book Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry helps to determine whether a person qualifies for baptism. If some points are not clear to him, or he has not brought his life into harmony with divine standards, the elders are pleased to render spiritual assistance."
*** w88 6/15 28 Becoming an Ordained Minister-God's WayT
To help the new believer further, Christian elders arrange to meet with him and spend time reviewing the basic teachings of the Bible. This, for one thing, assures the elders that the prospective Christian has acquired an accurate knowledge of God’s purposes. And, of course, the review proves most helpful to the student. As needed, certain matters that were not correctly understood are clarified."
° At which moment the " candidate for baptism " is told of the possible implications
derived from - becoming a baptized member " i.e. the full impact of what happens
in " s h u n n in g " or even in " di s f e l l o w s h I p p I n g " ???Not in a couple of words , but clearly let him/her understand fully the
consequences of becoming" a person to be shunned " or a
"disfellowshipped person"???After all " the student …" if he/she qualifies, " may turn in a field service report and a Congregation’s Publisher Record card will be made out in his name."
And most important , the w. article mentions:"This will demonstrate his affiliation with the theocratic organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses and his submission to it. "
*** w88 11/15 17 Helping Others to Worship God
9 The two elders will inform the student that when he qualifies for and shares in the field service, he may turn in a field service report and a Congregation’s Publisher Record card will be made out in his name. This will demonstrate his affiliation with the theocratic organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses and his submission to it. (This would also be true of all others turning in field service reports.) The discussion should also cover Bible counsel, such as is outlined on pages 98 and 99 of Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry. Hence, this would be an appropriate time for the student to obtain a personal copy of that book."
°A big question comes :
Does the " s t u d e n t " understand, grasps the implication
of the THREE key words : - a f f I l I a t I o n " and " s u b m I s s I o n " and
" o r g a n I s a t I o n "??I do believe that the vast numbers of "prospective brothers and sisters " WERE
and still ARE left with the idea that " members are free to leave any time they
want; the door is open " and we all know that , in reality , it is not so !Your comments are welcome, agape to you all , J.C. MacHislopp
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ALEXANDER H. MACMILLAN
by bj inin the book faith on the march by alexander h. macmillan, page 43 it states:.
"in october, 1902, i attended a convention in washington, d.c., where i was married.
my wife and i then spent a year in california, returning in 1904 to allegheny.".
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MacHislopp
Hello Bj,
I've also the book, and yo're right… no further mention of his wife!
Maybe some of the friends - Kent, Ozzie, Farkel, AlanF, Simon, Maximus etc. will provide
us with …the latest!
Agape, J.C.MacHislopp
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What Caused Your First Doubt ?
by Big Jim infor me it was when i was about twelve years old and my best friends dad was disfellowshipped from the congregation.. i could not understand how a god of love would treat someone so coldly.. i used to think what if that was the way my parents would treat me if i had done something wrong, that would be so hard and cruel.. as i got older another thing that bothered me was the beard issue.
it may sound pretty trivial however the society has always refused to make a good arguement as to why they would give you the old cold shoulder if you were to grow one.. two more items; first i could not understand why all the congregations and all the assemblys would give income reports.
and the society never did.
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MacHislopp
Hello everyone,
As I've promised I'm back with comments :
To Mulan:
"…having little nagging thoughts, that I would "put on the shelf" -
Funny, it is the same expression that I've always used …
To Joelbear:Double standards .
They start to become obvious
after …somebody else is guilty!To Gianluca:
"The day they changed the "1914 generation" doctrine…"
That was another -punch in the eye -…
To Copernicus:
" When they took the mention of creator’s promise of a new
system before the generation of 1914
"No warning, no explanation, nothing. "Terrible, but worst many brothers and sisters …don't
know about it aven today!To Francoise:
Strange as it may seem, it was the beard issue
that was the proverbial straw.In my personal experience I never accepted this issue. Lacked any
Scriptural support, …a men made rule. But the shock after the
heavy debate , written positions, letters etc. was to find out that in
some congregations - elders with a beard like " Father Christmas"
could give public talks even outside their own congregations.
So that showed me, what really this was : A MEN MADE RULE !(Btw. "near got DFed on the spot for my reaction to that comment."
Great comment . I know what you mean !
To Aguest:
"a talk during which the outline had the separation of
the sheep and the goats BEFORE the 'great tribulation'. -This point was also the theme of a long discussion…
Some told me: " …more light that comes from Jehovah"!!!To Orange Blossom:
Revelation book, I could never accept that different
prophetic events, trumpet blowings, etc. were related
to the different conventions throughout rhe years.
I just couldn't buy it."You're not alone…
To Liberated:
" In 1914 , no one knew of Jesus' return in that year.
Russell was teaching "present truth " to be that Jesus
returned in 1874"A very good point indeed, because what I could not digest,
having a personal copy of the book " The JW's in the Divine
purpose ", was the numerous attempt or rather teachings that
WTS always pointed out " to 1914" as the YEAR!!! And to
be kind …this is a lie!To AlanF:
"organ transplants are cannibalism" in 1967.
When, in my researches I did eventually read from the magazine,
at first …I thought I was making a mistake…unfortunately
it was t r u e !So , many of us have similar experiences, and it is nice to share them!
Agape, J.C. MacHislopp