scotoma

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Posts by scotoma

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  39

  Where Do You NOW Think Wickedness Comes From? The Devil or... ?

  by LoisLane looking for Superman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think wickedness comes from evil people.. there are many people in between the two extremes of, overly good people and overly evil persons.. i do not believe in a devil.. i think he is a concept dreampt up by evil ones to blame bad behavior, as a red herring, on anyone but themselves.. the watchtower makes up attrocious lies, brow beats good people not to better themselves,.

  all the while, they are building their own empire.. they say, do not isiolate yourself.

  it is not good for you.. but if you don't agree with them and their current teachings, you will be shunned, disfellowshipped.. that can and does, have earth shattering results.. so many things, i was taught as a born in, are now considered apostate teachings.

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  scotoma

  Snare and Racket,

  I am not advocating belief in God or the Bible. I quote the Bible because western civilization relies on it as a moral guide. I don't believe in a God who sets the moral tone. Groups of people come up with morality which is supposed to emphasize practices that makes the whole of society function better. I think the scripture that I quoted about where evil comes from shows that a personal Devil is not needed to understand evil.

  It's kind of like "company policy" or a statement of purpose in an advocacy group or charity organization.

  I believe in evolution. Not just biological evolution but socio/cultural evolution. People over hundreds of thousands of years have figured out what seems to work. Religions try to explain those rules as God given.

  I don't believe that.

  I like what Dawkins said in the last paragraph of THE SELFISH GENE "We have the power to defy the selfish genes of our birth. We can even discuss ways of deliberately cultivating and nuturing pure, disinterested altruism-something that has no place in nature, something that has never existed before in the whole history of the world. We, alone on earth can rebel against the tyranny of the selfish replicators."

  Sorry but if you re-read what I wrote you will find that you agree with me.
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  304

  Musings about different types of atheist!

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

  or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

  after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

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  scotoma

  The world is NOT just forces and particles. The world contains information about relations between forces and particles. Information is weightless. Life is a special structure of relationships and introduces a new level to the universe. It introduces structures that perpetuate themselves. So basically the meaning of life is "life". Life is not a top down formation. It is a bottom up emergence.

  Eventually, life produced sentient forms which make up a whole new layer that can plan and decide into the future. The laws that dominate in this sphere produce morality.
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  39

  Where Do You NOW Think Wickedness Comes From? The Devil or... ?

  by LoisLane looking for Superman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think wickedness comes from evil people.. there are many people in between the two extremes of, overly good people and overly evil persons.. i do not believe in a devil.. i think he is a concept dreampt up by evil ones to blame bad behavior, as a red herring, on anyone but themselves.. the watchtower makes up attrocious lies, brow beats good people not to better themselves,.

  all the while, they are building their own empire.. they say, do not isiolate yourself.

  it is not good for you.. but if you don't agree with them and their current teachings, you will be shunned, disfellowshipped.. that can and does, have earth shattering results.. so many things, i was taught as a born in, are now considered apostate teachings.

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  scotoma

  The Bible says everyone is drawn out and enticed by their own desires.

  The desires become fertile and give birth to sin.

  If we didn't have a reproductive systems we wouldn't have a desire for sex.

  If we didn't have a digestive system we wouldn't have a desire for food.

  If we didn't have muscles we wouldn't have a desire for exercise and movement.

  If we didn't have a brain and nervous system we wouldn't have a "self" or "selfishness".

  Sin is moral badness where in the process of satisfying your own desires you cause unnecessary harm. The Bible calls it "that superfluous thing" ie beyond what is necessary.

  There seems to be a factor of greed or excess to sin.

  People are perfectly equipped to do-evil without any help from a personal d--evil.
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  39

  Where Do You NOW Think Wickedness Comes From? The Devil or... ?

  by LoisLane looking for Superman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think wickedness comes from evil people.. there are many people in between the two extremes of, overly good people and overly evil persons.. i do not believe in a devil.. i think he is a concept dreampt up by evil ones to blame bad behavior, as a red herring, on anyone but themselves.. the watchtower makes up attrocious lies, brow beats good people not to better themselves,.

  all the while, they are building their own empire.. they say, do not isiolate yourself.

  it is not good for you.. but if you don't agree with them and their current teachings, you will be shunned, disfellowshipped.. that can and does, have earth shattering results.. so many things, i was taught as a born in, are now considered apostate teachings.

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  scotoma

  Evil is just another term for selfishness. All organisms are selfish or they couldn't survive. When the big fish eats the little fish it does so for its survival.

  The big fish benefits from all the still smaller fish the little fish ate. Life sustaining molecules are in short supply. Every living thing is chasing those molecules.

  Plants can't move around but they compete with their roots and vines.

  If you are the big fish life is good. Might good!

  If you are the little fish. Damn! You must surrender your lifetime collection of precious molecules.

  Life is a pair of dice.
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  67

  Do you detect an underlying sadness ?

  by Phizzy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  whenever i talk to jw's, and even in some of the jw official videos, i detect a definite vibe of sadness coming off these people.. i am very sensitive to "atmospheres" and to peoples emotional state, you wouldn't think so, because more often than not i do not react to what i detect, i just let people get on with it.. but i do get this feeling that they are sad, probably because very, very, very deep down they realise that it is all false, maybe ?.

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  scotoma

  The real sadness emerges when the baby boomers bury their witness parents who never thought THEY were going to die.

  Most baby boomers are in their late 50's and if you are a witness you missed out on the greatest life any group of humans has ever had.

  They also know that their own end is close.
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  10

  What do witnesses say to you that it is a sign of great tribulation coming?

  by Iamallcool in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i was little, some older brother told me there will be a very important annoucement from bethel.

  he said it might be start of the great tribulation.

  i got so worried.

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  scotoma

  They have painted themselves in a corner.

  They have said two extraordinary things have to take place.

  1. An extraordinary peace agreement.

  2. Followed quickly by the United Nations destroying religion.

  When those two things happen God's people are supposed to flee to escape danger. I would imagine the JW's would coordinate such an exodous.

  You have nothing to worry about until those two things happen. And if those two things really happened I might cast my lot with JW's. It would be the first time they ever got anything right.
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  67

  Do you detect an underlying sadness ?

  by Phizzy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  whenever i talk to jw's, and even in some of the jw official videos, i detect a definite vibe of sadness coming off these people.. i am very sensitive to "atmospheres" and to peoples emotional state, you wouldn't think so, because more often than not i do not react to what i detect, i just let people get on with it.. but i do get this feeling that they are sad, probably because very, very, very deep down they realise that it is all false, maybe ?.

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  scotoma

  Below is somethng I wrote back in the early 1990's. It reminds me of the crisis I was going through at the time. I have to believe that at least 1 out of 10 JW's is going through something similar at any given time.

  But most don't come clean with their own responsibility. Their disappointments are betrayed by the bumps under their cloak of sadness.

  "Nothing happened in 1975. Who would ever think that "nothing" could make such a big difference. But as a third generation JW who just spent his years from the age of 21 to the age of 30 in expectation of the promised "end" it was a difficult reality to face. Proverbs 13:12 sums it up

  "Expectation postponed is making the heart sick, but the thing desired is a tree of life when it does come."

  I wondered whether this was a miscalculation or perhaps a test. For the next 5 years I lived my life feeling that the end was still near and that Jehovah was sifting us to see who was serving just for a date. To all appearances this seemed exactly what was going on. For the first time in the history of the organization the number of preachers actually decreased.

  But when 1980 came and the organization started back increasing it was clear that indeed the end was not yet and there was no significance to 1975 at all. Even worse, a kind of denial set in where the Watchtower was trying to make the rank and file guilty for having expectations for 1975. Again there is a scripture that sums this up. Ezekiel 14:9,10

  "And as for the prophet, in case he gets fooled and actually speaks a word, I myself, Jehovah, have fooled that prophet; and I will stretch out my hand against him and annihilate him.... And they will have to bear their error. The error of the INQUIRER will prove to be just the same as the error of the prophet."

  This scripture got me out of the "victim" mode. I realized that it does no good to point fingers. That's MY sin. The false prophet has THEIR sin. But the inquirer has THEIR sin.

  The fact remains - I BELIEVED A FALSE PROPHECY.

  I decided to take responsibility for myself. I have learned that true repentance is not just the feeling of regret. True repentance is accompanied by the attitude "How can I prevent this from happening AGAIN?" The solution to this problem is at Romans 2:21

  "do you, however, the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself?

  To avoid being misled by others I must teach myself. At least then, if I err it will be my own confusion. I will never buy into someone else's explanation. I will examine everything to the best of my ability.
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  8

  Extraterrestrial Life Claim

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-truth-is-out-there-british-scientists-claim-to-have-found-proof-of-alien-life-8826690.html.

  not absolute proof but the details are suggestive.

  i think it's interesting to observe some astrobiologists are willing to consider panspermia ideas.. .

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  scotoma

  Why would they fly V formation? Saving fuel? Resisting turbulence? Are you sure it wasn't a single craft that looked v-shaped?
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  67

  3 more branches closed?

  by Viva la Vida in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it seems the finland branch has taken over the work from estonia, latvia and lithuania (see http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/offices/finland/).

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  scotoma

  Gingerbread

  % increase in average publisher

  1935-1955 = 1000%

  1955-1975 = 360%

  1975-1995 = 240%

  1995-2012 = 152%

  Funny thing is the Proclaimers (see quote below) book suggests that the Elder Arrangement was instituted by divine foresight

  to take care of the large increase. The increases slowed down considerably after the Elder arrangement was set up.

  "During the following year, preparation was made for adjustments in the oversight of the congregations.No longer would there be just one congregation servant assisted by a specified number of other servants. Men who were Scripturally qualified would be appointed to serve as elders. Others, who met the Bible’s requirements, would be appointed to be ministerial servants. This opened the way for a greater number to share in congregation responsibilities and thus to gain valuable experience. None of Jehovah’s Witnesses had any idea then that the number of congregations would increase by 156 percent during the next 21 years, reaching a total of 69,558 in 1992. But the Head of the congregation, the Lord Jesus Christ, evidently was making preparation for what was to come."
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  67

  3 more branches closed?

  by Viva la Vida in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it seems the finland branch has taken over the work from estonia, latvia and lithuania (see http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/offices/finland/).

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  scotoma

  Gingerbread,

  The most rapid increase of JW's was in the 1950's.

  The Watchtower seems to confuse large numbers added as "acceleration". Acceleration is an increase in the percentage of increase not the numbers added.

  Like all pyramid schemes the largest acceleration was at the beginning when they went from 10 to 20 in just a matter of months.

  After becoming an established organization their last period of acceleration was from 1950 to about 1961.

  Since then the percentage of increase has been decreasing steadily and quite predictably.