Posts by NCC-1701

127

Introducing Mrs Cedars...

by cedars in

jw
friends

i just thought you should know that mrs cedars has finally taken the plunge and joined the forum.

she was able to log on for the first time yesterday.. though we both "awakened" at different stages, mrs cedars was very supportive and non-judgmental when i first began exploring my beliefs from a critical standpoint.

she is currently in the process of reading crisis of conscience and aquainting herself with some of the facts of witness history that were hitherto unknown.

NCC-1701

I think Mrs "Cedars" will be very "Poplar" on this forum.

9

Bible Edition/Version = question/help please

by mind blown in

from reading many posts i feel confident in asking this question, as i feel many of you are very well read regarding certain topics.

i would like to get a decent version of the bible, however, i don't know which one to get.

it's obsious the wts version is out of the question for me.

NCC-1701

I like the English Standard Version.

If you purchase the Study Edition, they give you free access to the online edition which has all the text, notes, articles and search capabilities.

31

The Governing Body was at the meeting tonight

by wannabefree in

i gave in and went to the meeting tonight.

first thursday meeting in a couple of months ...

the whole congregation bible/book study was praise and worship of the governing body!.

NCC-1701

I went to my first service meeting this week on the invitation of a Witness friend. (I have never been a Witness, myself)

I agree that the "Governing Body" received a lot of mention in those few paragraphs in discussion of Acts 15. The thing that struck me most was the discussion of Cornelius in Acts 10. He was held up as a righteous person. Imagine, a centurion from an occupying army being considered a devout man. There's no mention of Peter telling him that he really should give up the army life in order to be acceptable to God. Cornelius may well have, scripture doesn't say. I wondered if that fact may have been collectively and conveniently by-passed.

Forgive me if I am going off topic but I've often wondered about Christ's words in John 18:36

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. • But my kingdom is not from the world.”

I've seen this as a prohibition from Jesus about using force to fight for the advancement or preservation of the kingdom of God. But can this be used as an all out prohibition against fighting for any other "kingdom"? Jesus seems to say that his servants would fight under certain circumstances. He didn't say his servants would never fight. Fighting can take many forms, you can fight on a battlefield, you can fight within a legislature for laws or someone's rights. Is there a Witness prohibition against being a Police Officer? I believe they have to "fight" every now and then.

It was an interesting experience. I'm glad I got the opportunity to go.

134

Christians Please Explain

by AK - Jeff in

since leaving all organized religion, all superstition, all acceptance of deity, i have a terrible time truly understanding 'religious' thought.. i really do.. how is it possible for thinking people to just accept, without proof, all they accept?

this morning i overheard a conversation between two christians in a coffee shop.

they say to me 'dad, what's wrong with just being a nice, good person?

NCC-1701

At the risk of sounding like an a**hole or extreme.

I am a Christian who believes that Hell exists. However, believing in Hell and desiring that "some" people should go there are not the same.

I personally do not hold to a Universalist postion with regards to the afterlife. I am a believer in missions and I believe Jesus was and is also. I find it difficult to see the necessity of missions to step out into the unkown to share a message deemed so vital, at the risk of much personal harm, if everyone in the world will enjoy the same heavenly destination because it doesn't matter how someone lived this life. I personally don't know any missionaries who hold to a universalist belief.

I also see in scripture some descriptions of hell that sound horrendous. And many of these descriptions come from Jesus. In my experience, the validity of the message has a lot do with the validity of the messenger.

I wish there were no Hell. But I don't have the "big picture" that God has. I'm not above correction on these matters, I just hope if needed I'll be willing.

39

Hey Christians

by free2beme in

jw
friends

does it bother you thinking that you are saved and others are damned?.

NCC-1701

Hey freetobeme

Does it bother you thinking you are saved and others are damned?

May I relate a story before I answer your question?

When I was quite young, a friend of mine who my mother did daycare for, asked me if I wanted to have a sleep over at his place. He had never asked before. I asked my mom if I could go but, without giving any reason, she said no. My friend went home with his mom that afternoon and that was the last time I saw him. The next day, he, his father, his brother, and his uncle dissapeared while day fishing. They have never been found. Had I spent the night at my friend's house I'm pretty sure I would have been invited to go fishing with them before they dropped me off back home. At that time and for many years after, I considered how a simple, seemingly arbritrary decision may have kept me from disaster. My mom always said she didn't really have a good reason as to why she didn't let me go. I felt I was kind of like a lone survivor of a plane crash and it would make me feel guilty at times.

Fast forward 15 years later, and I became a Christian. Do I believe I'm saved? Yes I do. Do I believe I'm any more deserving than anyone else? No. When I think about my salvation now, I can't help but think about my "salvation" then. My friend was no more deserving of his fate than I was. I "was in the same boat with him" right up until the day I wasn't in the same boat with him.

Does it bother me to think I am saved while others aren't? Sometimes, because I don't deserve it any more than anyone else. I also wonder why I've had the privelege of growing up in Canada without ever going hungry a day in my life while there are so many others who struggle to survive every day.

In both instances, I'm grateful and perplexed.

18

Got some Street Encounter Questions for JWs?

by Vanderhoven7 in

jw
friends

NCC-1701

I like asking;

How long have you been a Jehovah's Witness?

What is it about the teachings that you received that made you choose to be a Witness instead of a Catholic or a Baptist, etc?

Then, hopefully, I can ask some of the tougher questions later.

117

Is Rev 5:11-14 Worship or Obeisance?

by JCISGOD98 in

i asked a jw last week the following question, "is revelation 5:11-14 a worship act to the lamb or an act of obeisance?.

revelation 5:11-14 nwt states and i saw, and i heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice: the lamb that was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.

because it's an act of worship and it is not allow in your kingdom hall.

NCC-1701

Hey JCISGOD98

I think if you want him to seriously consider your argument for Jesus' worship, calling him to task in the Kingdom Hall would not be the thing to do as it would play more into their hands than yours. Putting someone on the defensive in such a public manner would generally have the effect of shutting off anything you would have to say, no matter how well meaning you are.

Just my thoughts on it.

71

What's your favorite Canadian band?

by lepermessiah in

since we have a lot of canadian friends on this board, i have to ask - who are your favorite canadian bands?.

mine is rush.

they have been one of my favorite bands ever since i can remember.. they totally rule........the music and lyrics are all top notch.. the other one is the tea party - jeff martin is a genius.

NCC-1701

I always thought that Aldo Nova never got the recognition he deserved. I've also got a soft spot for Gerry Doucette. "Mama Let him Play" became an anthem in high school.

But I'd have to go with Rush as the all time best Canadian band

94

Church is in session: NHL Playoffs

by unshackled in

jw
friends

nhl playoffs start tonight.

get your beer chilled and the wings in the oven.

the next two months or so is my church - the grueling battle for the stanley cup.

NCC-1701

Charlie Brown Jr. , you got to see Bobby Orr play? Sweet!

I only ever saw him in person once when he came up here to Vancouver for the 2006 World Junior Championships.

209

The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.

by whereami in

gotta love pat.. "ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.

ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity.

it is the mere abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of jesus.

NCC-1701

May I offer something to the discussion for consideration?

This is something that I have only recently learned. For my example I will use John 16:26 which says, "In that day you will ask in my name, and I do not say to you that I will ask the Father on your behalf;"

I chose this verse because it uses the word, "ask" twice in the same verse. In the first instance, it is speaking about the disciples asking something from God . In the second, it speaks of Jesus asking something of the Father.

The greek word that scripture uses for the first instance is aiteo. The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament gives the following partial definition' "Ask, request, beg. The seeking of the inferior from the superior...by man from God."

In the second instance, the greek word used is erotao. At the end of the definition it says, "A very distinct meaning of the verb erotao is "to pray," but it is in contrast to the verb aiteo. Erotao provides the most delicate and tender expression for prayer or request with the one asking and the one being asked being on an equal level, such as the Lord Jesus asking of the Father. The contrast is made clear in John 14:13, 14, where the word aiteo in the case of our asking God as an inferior to a superior, leaving it up to Him to do that which pleases Him. However, in John 14:16, when the Lord Jesus is praying to the Father or asking the Father, the verb erotao is used, as also in John 17:9, 15, 20."

I looked in the book of John, and I could not find an instance where Jesus asked anything of the Father using the word aiteo but always using erotao. The word is not exclusively used by Jesus in the gospels. But as far as I can tell, Jesus uses only that word when praying to the Father.

Does this verse and the others in John give a hint of Jesus and the Father having equal divinity?

Thank you.