Christians Please Explain

by AK - Jeff 134 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  AK - Jeff

  Since leaving all organized religion, all superstition, all acceptance of deity, I have a terrible time truly understanding 'Religious' thought.

  I really do.

  How is it possible for thinking people to just accept, without proof, all they accept? This morning I overheard a conversation between two Christians in a coffee shop. It went something like this:

  Patron: "I hope someday that my kids accept the Lord, for that is the only means by which they can get life. They say to me 'Dad, what's wrong with just being a nice, good person?' And I tell them that many millions of good people are already burning [in hell he meant I assume], and that the only way to avoid it is to accept the Lord."

  Barista: "I know. So many of our kids just don't get it."

  Patron: "I try to tell them that the only way to heaven is to believe the Bible and serve God. They just have to get it out of their system I suppose. I know when I was young I had to - but I know now that the Lord is the only way to go."

  Barista: "I always pray that these young people will wake up and smell the roses before it is too late, and they find themselves in hell."

  I just wanted to jump up and scream "Prove it. Prove that the Bible is anything more than a book of riddles and dreams and superstitious nonsense handed down from a bunch of Jewish fringe-dwellers. Prove that the Bible has more merit than say the Quaran. Prove that anything it says is correct when it speaks of God. Prove that Christianity, or whatever religion you pick, has not been responsible for more bloodshed and war than any other social force in history. Show me a religion, any religion, that doesn't 'update' it's viewpoints, adjust it's opinions, overtly change from fundamental to metaphorical in it's explanations of passages when science has shown the fundamental viewpoint to be impossible!"

  Religion, and it's horrible hold on minds and intellect just sickens me. Just makes me want to puke to see otherwise capable people believing in heaven, hell, Jesus, God, Allah, Mohammad without so much as a single bit of science and fact to back it up.

  Even my mentally retarded cousin was able to let go of the delusions of Santa and the Easter Bunny once the culture in which she resided insisted that it was just a fun fantasy. I cannot wait until society in general does the same within our culture. Wouldn't it be a beautiful world once the delusions are smashed and called what they are - superstitions without basis? I dream that there will someday be a world mentioned by John Lennon 'Imagine no religion - it's easy if you try"

  Jeff
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  PSacramento

  If you want numbers and stats, you can read "the irrational atheist" by Vox Day.

  Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with his views, he does show STATS and Numbers.
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  N.drew

  Do you believe anarchy is the way to peace? Do you think the many governments off the world will finally come to a peaceful agreement? The true religion is that which brings together all the people with their many different ways about them into a (can I say system?) or structure of living, thinking individuals that can and will get along, despite their difference, happily and with fairness for all. Take a little bit of everything, even evolution (especially evolution) and evolve into organisms that care for each other with a very loosely organized system of governmentsssss (because we are all different) ect ect. Christainily explained. I could be wrong. I think the problem with "Christianity" is those believers want it NOW, so it never ever comes, because it is IN us, not FOR us.
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  AK - Jeff

  Do you believe anarchy is the way to peace? Do you think the many governments off the world will finally come to a peaceful agreement?

  Where did I even suggest 'anarchy' as a solution to anything? I don't believe I mentioned government either!

  I am referring to 'religion', and it's hold on mankind with it's irrational superstition and it's reliance on myths, legends and books written by people who lived in a time where science was not able to explain reality. Additionally, the ignorance of culture that continues to tolerate it. I find it absurd really, to trust such nonsense as life guidance.

  If someone believes the moon is made of green cheese, or that rubbing Alladin's lamp will produce a genie - well, we consign them to be delusional, and if that delusion persists until it prevents them from safe integration into society - we remove them from society. Before we do that though, we seek to educate society about the science of the moon and that genies don't really exist. Over time we have been successful in changing silly delusions by education. But the foolish delusions of sky-daddy and his boy savior persist - not due to any evidence to support them - there is precisely zero evidence to support them - but due to society finding it difficult to unglue itself from cultural ideologies that have permeated our planet like a permanent stain.

  For every Einstein or John Nash or Mark Twain or Stephen Hawking that has come along, there are likely a thousand who have been buried in the morass of foolish 'faith and belief' and have put aside the wonderful gifts they could have used in their brains to aid our species - to rid us of cancer, find a cure for malaria, or a mathematical formula that unlocks technology that could aid our planet and it's life.

  I just think it a shame to waste perfectly good minds on such rubbish. And I started this thread hoping some light could be shedd on what others think it would take to heal this planet of it's most insidious disease ever - religion and belief in such insanity as proferred by it.

  Jeff
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  garyneal

  I hear you, Jeff. I must admit, when I come across believers like that I find myself more envious of them because that was how I use to be. So sure that my interpretation of the Bible was the truth that I never questioned it.

  While I still place my faith in Christ, I find myself questioning everything. If my interpretations of the Bible could be wrong, what else is wrong? If I am so sure that the Quran is wrong, what if the Bible is wrong?

  Ahh, to be so blissful in their blind faith. I miss that, that's what I get for thinking. Stupid thinking...
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  FlyingHighNow

  Jeff, not all Christians believe this way. A huge proportion are universalists who believe that God loves all of this children and doesn't give up on them EVER. Being good is more important than what a person believes. Goodness and love are the most valuable, powerful things that exist. I am not one who takes the Bible literally, but in the Bible, Jesus rejects such a represenation of God. Goodness is what is valued most, not a claim to pious worship.
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  Mary

  Just makes me want to puke to see otherwise capable people believing in heaven, hell, Jesus, God, Allah, Mohammad without so much as a single bit of science and fact to back it up.

  Jeff, I find it more and more disturbing how, since you've gone from being a Christian to being an athiest, you suddenly seem to think that everyone else should follow suit, lest they be considered somehow not as intelligent as an athiest. Why does it "sicken" you, that someone else should believe in something spiritual just because it can't be randomly studied in a lab or in a controlled setting? Who died and left science as the ultimate authority on all the answers in life? Like many others on here, you've simply gone from one extreme belief (JW) to the other end of the spectrum (athiesm) with absolutely no tolerance whatsoever for anything inbetween, which is usually where the truth lies.

  I completely understand the hesitation in taking anything on 'faith' after the way we were lied to by the Organization, but just because this religion is nothing but a scam does not automatically mean that there is nothing out there beyond what science can explain. People leave the Organization, they read Dawkins and suddenly he is the be-all and end-all of life and anyone who is dumb enough to believe in anything spiritual after reading The God Delusion is just plain stupid.

  Yes, the people you overheard sound like a bunch of wingnuts, not too different from the average Dub and if there is a God, I doubt he is anywhere near as judgemental as what humans are. And yes I agree, the bible is probably a culmination of writings from the ancient Jewish culture which in many cases, should have no bearing on our lives today. There are parts in it that are truly horrifying. Yet, I also find that there are parts in it that are truly beautful. Why do so many feel that it has to be "all or nothing"? 'The bible was not written by God, therefore, God does not exist'.

  One subject I have found quite interesting is the subject of life-after-death and I have often wondered if there is any sort of scientific evidence that something does survive the physical death. Instead of automatically pooh-poohing the notion as being "unscientific", I actually found a book that I thought presented the case quite well. It's called Science and the Near Death Experience: How Consciousness Survives Death" by Chris Carter (no, not the guy who created X-Files). It does not claim 100% proof (as it is difficult to studying something outside of the material world), yet it provides what I would call very strong circumstantial evidence that something survives the physical death. What I liked about it, is that there is no religious agenda to it, no quoting of scripture or any other hidden agenda and to anyone interested in the subject, I would highly recommend it.

  And in reality, what makes you think for one minute that the world would be such a better place without any religion whatsoever? I don't recall any Communist country ever achieving "peace" or a better world because they had gotten rid of religion. Yes, religion has caused untold misery to millions over the centuries. It's also helped millions lead a happy life and overcome alcoholism, drug abuse, etc. It's the religious fanatics that cause most of the problems in the world, not the moderates who just want to lead a normal life. And if that life includes believing in a higher power, then who are you or I to tell them that they're wrong? How do you or I really know whether or not there's something else out there? Sometimes, the arrogance of the human race astounds me.

  Jeff, don't throw the baby out with the bath-water. While we might think we have all the answers, we don't really. IMO, atheism and belief in a creator both take a huge leap of faith. We have no idea what the generations that follow us will discover with regards to life, religion or God. In time what's accepted as 'fact' may some day be exposed as 'fiction'.

  In re-reading one of your old threads, you've become exactly what you were against a few years ago:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/138098/1/So-non-creationist-what-do-you-think-of-those-who-still-accept-creation
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  Giordano

  "I am referring to 'religion', and it's hold on mankind with it's irrational superstition and it's reliance on myths, legends and books written by people who lived in a time where science was not able to explain reality. Additionally, the ignorance of culture that continues to tolerate it. I find it absurd really, to trust such nonsense as life guidance."

  AK-Jeff you've got it right. It is nonsense.
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  talesin

  I feel your frustration, Jeff, in listening to the conversation. Here they are, so worried that their child is not embracing their 'personal' belief system ... instead of focussing on LIFE ,,,

  LIFE, ENGLISH!!!

  tal

  *if yr lurking, this is a shout-out* :D
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  PSacramento

  I would hope that Jeff being here with Us all and have read the writings of those that believe and love Him dearly, that He wouldn't be so aggressive and mean spirited to us all simply because some of us are assholes.

  I don't judge every atheist by the intolerant and spiteful ramblings of Dawkins or some of the the more "colourful" atheist websites.

  Judging anyone group by the extreme "representations' of said group is not very logical at all.

  Can you imagine of the world judge Americans 100% by what they see of the "extreme" cases?