Posts by Martini

47

WHY does God fail to...

by Martini in

jw
friends

...attain unanimous support from his creation of free moral agents?

from the majority at least.. apparently according to the wt interpretation of god's own book...a prominent spirit creature who made himself satan became unsatisfied and left god.later untold numbers would join the devil.. now the only solution for the future of these 'rebels' would be for god to destroy them.. then the very first human creatures apparently also felt unsatisfied and withdrew from god.they got destroyed.. later god had to confuse the language of all humans because they were unanimously opposed to god.

those people too are history.. then god had an ark built because all flesh had left god's way except for a handful of people.. evidently god was not expecting any great number to actually join noah, otherwise god would have had noah build several arks!

Martini

Hello Friends,
Both of you are correct.
When I spoke of the majority of free moral agents,
Frenchy is correct by saying I was refering to the human race on earth.
As far as having allegiance in heaven, well Spec you are correct we have no way of knowing how many Spirit creatures remained loyal to God except
what the inspired account reveals to us, and it says that many broke ranks to join Satan.

Another point I wanted to add to this question I'm pondering is that Revelation tells us that a great many will rebel against God at the end of the thousand years when Satan is released for a short time. Why would anyone choose to rebel after having witnessed paradise conditions is above me!
Again this is how the WTS has interpreted these writings so the root of my question then seems to be whether or not WT theology is accurate concerning these events.
I'm not so much concerned to know whether some other belief system has all the correct answers because I don't believe there is ANY belief system that has the complete Truth. What bugs me is that we JW's through the WTS insist to be God's exclusive channel for Truth. Basically we are given the impression if we JW's don't know something spiritual certainly no one else knows better.
A little examination though is proving this to be false. I'm interested to know when will our WTS officially retract or prove this extraordinary claim.
Do you feel the WTS has knowledge over and above any other belief system?

Warmest greetings,
Martini.

47

WHY does God fail to...

by Martini in

jw
friends

...attain unanimous support from his creation of free moral agents?

from the majority at least.. apparently according to the wt interpretation of god's own book...a prominent spirit creature who made himself satan became unsatisfied and left god.later untold numbers would join the devil.. now the only solution for the future of these 'rebels' would be for god to destroy them.. then the very first human creatures apparently also felt unsatisfied and withdrew from god.they got destroyed.. later god had to confuse the language of all humans because they were unanimously opposed to god.

those people too are history.. then god had an ark built because all flesh had left god's way except for a handful of people.. evidently god was not expecting any great number to actually join noah, otherwise god would have had noah build several arks!

Martini

Hello Friends,
Both of you are correct.
When I spoke of the majority of free moral agents,
Frenchy is correct by saying I was refering to the human race on earth.
As far as having allegiance in heaven, well Spec you are correct we have no way of knowing how many Spirit creatures remained loyal to God except
what the inspired account reveals to us, and it says that many broke ranks to join Satan.

Another point I wanted to add to this question I'm pondering is that Revelation tells us that a great many will rebel against God at the end of the thousand years when Satan is released for a short time. Why would anyone choose to rebel after having witnessed paradise conditions is above me!
Again this is how the WTS has interpreted these writings so the root of my question then seems to be whether or not WT theology is accurate concerning these events.
I'm not so much concerned to know whether some other belief system has all the correct answers because I don't believe there is ANY belief system that has the complete Truth. What bugs me is that we JW's through the WTS insist to be God's exclusive channel for Truth. Basically we are given the impression if we JW's don't know something spiritual certainly no one else knows better.
A little examination though is proving this to be false. I'm interested to know when will our WTS officially retract or prove this extraordinary claim.
Do you feel the WTS has knowledge over and above any other belief system?

Warmest greetings,
Martini.

47

WHY does God fail to...

by Martini in

jw
friends

...attain unanimous support from his creation of free moral agents?

from the majority at least.. apparently according to the wt interpretation of god's own book...a prominent spirit creature who made himself satan became unsatisfied and left god.later untold numbers would join the devil.. now the only solution for the future of these 'rebels' would be for god to destroy them.. then the very first human creatures apparently also felt unsatisfied and withdrew from god.they got destroyed.. later god had to confuse the language of all humans because they were unanimously opposed to god.

those people too are history.. then god had an ark built because all flesh had left god's way except for a handful of people.. evidently god was not expecting any great number to actually join noah, otherwise god would have had noah build several arks!

Martini

...attain unanimous support from His creation of free moral agents? From the majority at least.

Apparently according to the WT interpretation of God's own book...a prominent Spirit creature who made himself Satan became unsatisfied and left God.Later untold numbers would join the Devil.
Now the only solution for the future of these 'rebels' would be for God to destroy them.

Then the very first human creatures apparently also felt unsatisfied and withdrew from God.They got destroyed.
Later God had to confuse the language of all humans because they were unanimously opposed to God. Those people too are history.

Then God had an ark built because All flesh had left God's way except for a handful of people.
Evidently God was not expecting any great number to actually join Noah, otherwise God would have had Noah build several Arks! Well God did what he had to do and so pulled the plug and sent the work of his hands down the drain.

Then God chose a Nation to follow his ways. It all went well for a short time but soon God had more complainers than sympathizers and so off to the chopping block God sent them.

Finally God sent His most loyal supporter hopefully to recruit the masses from that so-called dedicated Nation. Nothing of the sort took place instead they nailed His Son to (something) and scattered the few followers that did support him.The rest of that Nation soon faced you guessed it... destruction.

Through out the Centuries since there has never been any unanimous support for God on earth.All
that ever happens is that people die one way or another.
Today too according to WT who feels they alone are the most "loyal" supporters of God they say only few humans will side with God and so soon God will have to, well destroy untold billions. Even among these "most loyal" of all humans, a million or more have left their ranks and each day many more leave.According to the WT God will have to destroy these too!

This scenerio boggles my mind...why God cannot get the majority of intelligent creatures on His side. In fact according to His 'book' He knows most will not so the ONLY solution is to destroy them!

Of course the above reasoning comes to me from the WTS. So maybe there in lies the problem. For me the WT explaination is no longer clear enough.

Why in His Omnipotence could He not show convincingly who He is and why we should unite with Him? Perhaps an explaination from God is forthcoming, because so far all what I've heard from the WTS sounds more and more like MYTH.

I would appreciate any comments.

Respectfully
Martini.

8

disfellowshipping

by Jokemyster in

jw
friends

since the organization has recieved "new light" regarding the 1914 generation, and completely changed their view on this, does this mean that.

all the former jehovah's witnesses who were disfellowshipped years ago for the same view the organization is now teaching will automatically be.

accepted into fellowship again?

Martini

Jokemyster,

You really should read through the many comments posted on this DB.You will discover that the witnesses here are not shocked by arguements like the one your bringing up. The GB have been less than totally honest with the brotherhood on many, not all but on many counts. IMO one of these being the myth that disfellowshipped JW's are wicked and comprise the evil slave class. Of course at this point I believe the GB are trying to perpetrate the myth that they themselves are God sent, but they haven't proved anything where it counts the most and that is in being 'honest'.

Deut 18:20-22

Martini

P.S. I doubt DF'd ones would come back even if we paid them.

20

Saving them for what?

by Ozzygal in

jw
friends

i find myself lacking in zeal in the door-to-door work.

i have this hidden feeling that these worldly people are better off to face jah's judgement at armageddon with their ignorance intact, rather than to bring them into our fold to struggle daily for worthiness and perhaps be set up for failure.

does anyone else ever think this way?

Martini

7of9,

McSpiritual food! LOL hahahahaha!
...and I thought I was getting happy meals for the last 23 years!

I'm glad you agree RHW.Really what is so loving about our message when in reality it's a death sentence for most.Thinking about this wouldn't it be far more loving for our Creator to just leave humankind as they are 'just going along getting along' for as long as they are able, instead of destroying billions of men, women and childen at Armaggedon? That or resolve the problem with some kind of realistic open dialogue as opposed to fragile ancient writings. Not that I disaprove of the bible,but often it leaves much to be desired in the way of an up-to-date response from God, especially when an untold number of human lives are involved.
In the end if humans bring extinction upon themselves, well at least they cannot blame a loving God.

Thanks for reading,
Martini.

Edited by - Martini on 24 May 2000 17:57:48

20

Saving them for what?

by Ozzygal in

jw
friends

i find myself lacking in zeal in the door-to-door work.

i have this hidden feeling that these worldly people are better off to face jah's judgement at armageddon with their ignorance intact, rather than to bring them into our fold to struggle daily for worthiness and perhaps be set up for failure.

does anyone else ever think this way?

Martini

Now back to RHW original thought...

Yep, I too do not feel motivated to direct people to the WT organization.However I do agree as Christians we should be witnessing to the magnificent things of GOD however insignificant they may be to many! The difference now for me is that the WT's trade mark or invention of doing it door to door IS not the ONLY method for accomplishing this. I prefer to do it with sporadic and extemporaneous praise in deed, word, poetry and song. I love God and what God gives to us each day so I think it's proper to give credit where credit is due.
Now I'm learning to love all my neighbors unconditionally, which happens to be the second command of Christ. In fact did he say "LOVE your enemies but tell them soon I plan to kill them."
Our preaching work as JW's is counter productive if after showing love to our enemies Jesus comes and delivers them a death blow. Seems contradictory doesn't it?
This though is how the WT would have it! Enough with the insanity.

I send you all my Christian Love.
Martini

61

What should I do?

by Scorpion in

jw
friends

i have pioneered for over four years.

i have three children and a wife who at times has severe back problems.

i have worked two jobs just to stay ahead of the bills and provide for my family.

Martini

Hi SC,

So far you got lot's of good advice.
The most import part of our sacred service to God is taking good care of our family. Field service in my opinion has been given far too greater an importance over those closest and dearest to us.
I would place the emphasis with serving family first. Also if we care for our individual and personal needs is not being selfish at all for we can only give our best to our family if we feel our best personally.The meetings and service have their a proper place but we cannot allow them to crowd out our much needed rest,sleep and play. Be determined to choose for yourself what is working for you and your family without feeling you must answer or please men.

God bless the love you show to your family.

Martini ...who has been asking himself hard and painful questions about worship lately.

27

Just saying Hi

by Ozzygal in

jw
friends

i've been lurking for a while, and feeling a little guilty about being here.

you know, the ol' internet is evil thing.

it's been a big topic down our way recently.

Martini

G'day Ozzygal,

Welcome and please make yourself at home.:)

When I first started visiting so called apostate sites in the cover of night my heart too started racing and pounding away. My conscience was screaming and finally I felt like I was making a pact with the Devil to deliver my soul to him!

Good grief.

What I found was incredible, it confirmed all my suspicion that I had kept locked up inside for a long time. Now I'm looking at the scripture that says man will dominate man to his injury from a totally unexpected point of view. Why was I always told not to seriously question our own beliefs but worst why did I so unreservedly obey such commands of men. My suspicions were correct the Society did have something to hide. They are hiding many truths about the 'truth'.

I'm not going to go into any proof giving regarding this statement I just wrote because I found proof requires much reading and thought,but it's all out there on the net and in books.

The internet is certainly an eye opener, but make no mistake it's a long journey to truly learn the many truths about 'the truth'. BUT I can assure you that in the process you will be left to hold a large bag load of emotions and decisions to sort out.

The only reason I continued to pay any attention to these sites is precisely because I found ex-witnesses to be undeserving of the labels the Society places upon them such as apostates or liars or faithless and ungodly and that they should be shunned like lepers. Most are wonderful brothers and sisters like any witness but may I add without the judgemental and sometimes arrogant attitudes.

There I've had my say for the day, thanks for reading and again welcome.

Best wishes to you,
Martini.

13

what is Reformed Jehovahs Witnesses?

by overthehillgrandma in

jw
friends

i saw a web site about this..does anyone know what it is?.

btw i am a grandma to three, mother to three, wife of thirty one yrs to the same wonderfull man... hello to all of you!

Martini

Hi G Ma,

To make a long story short ever since the internet JW's have been discussing what they feel needs changing within the Organization but mostly EX witnesses are speaking out. Opinions vary from minor to major. Some want to see the blood policy changed others would like to see changes in the severity with which JW's shun ex-members. Others too, question the authority structure and would like to see less control for the few (FDS) over the many.
Whether any of these reforms are any better OR will ever materialize within our life time remains to be seen , which begs the question:
Are we or aren't we God's Organization?

What do you believe?

The answer is NOW in an ever increasing debate world wide.

Love and Peace to you,
Martini

45

My Journey

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

i suppose we all think of ourselves as unique and we are in so many ways.

what i fail to realize, i guess, is that we are far more alike than unique.

every now and then i will reveal some little fear or quirk or dream that i have only to find out that someone else has experienced the same thing!

Martini

Hi Frenchy & co.,

I really wish I could spend more time here,but I have chirpping birds to feed and all the rest. Glad to hear some of yours have taken flight Frenchy. I agree with you brothers, I also have been to other sites where Xer's dominate and I too have found that where as I will admit they are correct on many topics,I find it disturbing how these can lack politeness. It's almost like we JW's say that when people remove the authority of God from their lives they start to believe there is no one to have to answer to for their behavoir, and so everything is valid.
I like to believe that in my journey I will find a truely balanced existence both in my respect for neighbor and to Almighty God.

Later...

Warm Greetings.
Martini