Posts by Maze

24

I've Decided That It'll Be Best For Me To Return To The Kingdom Hall.

by Philadelphia Ponos in

jw
friends

after carefully evaluating the my current life situation, i've come to the conclusion that returning to the hall will be best for me.

i simply just don't fit in with the rest of the world.

i don't drink, smoke, have sex, go to clubs, listen to worldly music, watch movies, or gamble.

Maze

This is a very valid reason for leaving . . . but how do you reconcile this with going back to the KH? If you really believe this then you are simply swapping one form of idolatry for another. Your worldly friends are "idolators" in a fleshly sense as many are. The GB are spiritual idolators . . . do you know which is considered worse? If it's not true worship you are seeking . . . rather, just a better quality of friends . . . on both counts you are looking in the wrong place PP. Expand your horizon . . . the choices you are restricting yourself to are very limited ones . . . why limit yourself in this way?

Also . . . are you going to quit your job as well? . . . if not, your work place problems will still be there. If you do quit your job . . . then why not make one change at a time? . . . and see how that pans out first?

I urge you to consider these things because I don't think you will get the outcome you anticipate . . . and I wonder where you will go from there.

I personally cannot wish anyone well if they are returning to a harmful cult . . . it's just plain wrong on all levels.

Einstein's definition of insanity? . . . "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result".

I would urge you to consider things very carefully.

It's not a harmful cult. It's not a cult period. The concept of a “cult” in your mind is simply a slang term for an organization you have personal issues with. So the religion is not for you. This doesn't mean it's not for everyone.

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Jehovah's Organization and Bible truths are beneficial for millions of people. It may not be beneficial for you but then again you're not a God fearing person. That's the criteria for the division between those that accept the Truth and those that don't.

116

I've Decided That It'll Be Best For Me To Return To The Kingdom Hall.

by Philadelphia Ponos in

jw
friends

after carefully evaluating the my current life situation, i've come to the conclusion that returning to the hall will be best for me.

i simply just don't fit in with the rest of the world.

i don't drink, smoke, have sex, go to clubs, listen to worldly music, watch movies, or gamble.

Maze

The evidence is everywhere that the world in many respects is a meat grinder.

“Also, there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and [its] agitation, while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Luke 21:25-26

Randall Watters, Barbara Anderson and their cronies at freeminds.org claim they're all about freedom but are really leading people into a tumultuous world with no guidance whatsoever.

These are fountains without water, and mists driven by a violent storm, and for them the blackness of darkness has been reserved. For they utter swelling expressions of no profit, and by the desires of the flesh and by loose habits they entice those who are just escaping from people who conduct themselves in error. While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are existing as slaves of corruption. 2 Peter 2:17-19

It would be in your best interests to get back to the meetings and pursue happiness there.

97

Everything In The Universe Was Created By Absolutely Nothing.

by Philadelphia Ponos in

jw
friends

this is the purest example of an oxymoron.

repeat this sentence over and over again and you will realize why it's impossible for some people to accept the big bang model.

.

Maze

The question becomes, is the Big Bang itself non-contingent. Paul Steinhardt (Professor of Science at Princeton University) and others are working on models, using deeply abstracted tools in mathematical physics (built on ideas that are extrapolations of other ideas that seem to be implied by other ideas that might be a mathematical, maybe even physical consequence of other ideas - none of which have been observed, that might possibly account for some of the things that we see.

http://www.physics.princeton.edu/~steinh/

There is not now nor could there possibly be (in any remotely meaningful way) anything that qualifies as genuine evidence for these types of theories. They are somewhat elegant theories, but they are not remotely "science" - it is mathematical philosophy at best. String theory alone may one day find some evidence, but the pre-Big Bang models based on string theory are fundamentally un-empirical.

Furthermore, as it currently stands, those models appear to be fundamentally incompatible with current cosmological observations, hence the enormous number of non-empircally based ideas that go along with them.

And, the Ekpyrotic/Cyclic models that they are working on end up positing extraordinarily complicated mathematical "entities", or "bulks" (fancy word for bigger universes) that require a tremendous number of non-trivial assumptions that are based on nothing other than "to make it work out".

So sure, you can hold out for one of these theories. But you don't get to pretend that you're sticking with empirical or scientific ideas. You're at least as religious as any hyper fundamentalist in any religion.

I am a theist because I believe it provides the greatest metaphysical explanatory power with the fewest non-trivial assumptions. I feel that naturalism, while a plausible and logically consistent worldview, ultimately runs into too many difficulties to be taken seriously.

If one insists on holding out for a scientific answer, then you will never find the answer. Any proposed explanation for the origin of the universe will be metaphysical and outside the reach of empirical science, whether it is theism, a string derived model, or turtles all the way down.

50

Resigned

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

i finally resigned as an elder.

my conscience wouldn't allow me to continue.

i've battled for years trying to reconcile the fallacies of the wt society with my own personal beliefs.

Maze

If you've been an elder all this time, can you copy and paste your last talk... please?

162

PROTESTS AT WATCHTOWER CONVENTIONS

by Lawrence Hughes in

jw
friends

dear friends,.

as you may know, the watchtower society takes great pride in its district conventions.

please contact me if you can attend any of these protests.. there is no reason why every district convention in the world could not have a protest and receive media coverage to expose the watchtower society.

Maze

Thank you, Mary, for saying this so clearly and eloquently! That is exactly why I, among many others, take care to protect my anonymity here. It would be wonderful if I didn't have to do that, but it is not the case now, nor is it likely to be any time soon.

I can understand this GLTirebiter.

g92 10/22 pp. 20-21 What if My Parent Has Disgraced Us?

Like Josiah, Hezekiah, and the sons of Korah, many Christian youths today have proved to be different from wayward parents. Consider a teenager we will call Maxwell. His parents were once faithful Witnesses of Jehovah but became apostate opposers of Christianity. On one occasion his parents carried banners and demonstrated outside the grounds of a Christian convention that Maxwell was attending. “It was very embarrassing,” he explains. “Some who didn’t know that they were my parents said to me, ‘Have you seen those stupid apostates outside?’” However, Maxwell did not follow his parents’ rebellious course. And with the support of faithful family members and other Christian associates, he has been able to cope with feelings of embarrassment and shame.

32

Blood

by Blind_Of_Lies in

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i have been doing a lot of mind searching on the issue of blood.

Maze

You can Google several phrases and there are thousands of articles that carry the implicit meaning of avoiding the intake of these substances into the human body by any means.

“Abstain from tobacco” 36,100 results
“Abstain from alcohol” 1,190,000 results
“Abstain from drugs” 127,000 results
“Abstain from sugar” 20,500

http://www.ccsb.org/Patients_Family/Cancer_Prevention/Healthy_Eating_Lifestyle_Tips/Abstain_from_Tobacco_Use/

Abstain from Tobacco Use

By abstaining from tobacco use, you dramatically lower your risk of developing one of the deadliest cancers - lung cancer.

Cancers of the lips, tongue, mouth and throat, as well as the colon, are also caused by tobacco use. Not only smoking cigarettes, but also cigars and pipes, as well as the use of smokeless tobacco, can cause these cancers.

Whether they said, "abstaining from tobacco use" or "abstaining from tobacco," there are various means to induce nicotine into the brain and central nervous system and “abstaining” from tobacco in this article includes all of these delivery systems. Even if you insist that this is the improper use of the English language, it doesn't necessarily imply any undisclosed meaning in Acts 15:29 like strictly [eating or drinking]. Abstaining from blood or "blood use" can imply any form of intake.

The prohibition on blood in the Old and New Testament is for two reasons:

1. Health considerations
2. The sanctity of blood

Neither of these reasons change with the intravenous intake of blood.

32

Blood

by Blind_Of_Lies in

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i have been doing a lot of mind searching on the issue of blood.

Maze

Don't use logic or bible texts on Maze or he will stop responding to the thread (I have 2 outstanding threads Maze). As usual, Maze quotes out of context bible scriptures and uses Watchtower publications to support his viewpoint.

First of all buck-o, this is what you did, not me. I don't have time to address every post someone directs at me unless you want to pay me more than my secular work does. I have another life that takes priority.

32

Blood

by Blind_Of_Lies in

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i have been doing a lot of mind searching on the issue of blood.

Maze

The fundamental meaning of the word, "Abstain" and its synonyms according to The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language is to "...keep or prevent oneself from doing or saying something.." "Abstain" negates action. "Doing" and "Saying" are acts.

"Abstain" does not negate objects. There is no such thing as negation of an object in grammar. What would it mean to abstain from sky? What would it mean to abstain from shrubbery? What would it mean to abstain from train? If you can't associate an action with the object, the phrase is meaningless.

TD, you're overcomplicating a very simple directive from the Bible.

“What would it mean to abstain from train?”

This is clearly the improper use of English and makes little sense. What we're dealing with are not objects that can't be taken into the human body, like a "train." We're dealing with substances that can be taken into the physical body either by ingestion or injection and thus implies an implicit meaning. Abstaining from blood is a valid use of the English language as “abstaining from alcohol” from the article I posted is grammatically correct. You can dissect grammar to distort an author's intended meaning in a number of instances.

"Fornication" unlike the first three abstentions is the name of a finite act. (i.e. The act of illicit sex) and therefore has a verb form. I can easily state what it means to "Abstain from...fornication" as a finite negative simply by switching to the verb form of the word:

"Do not fornicate."

Without inserting any new words, can you express what it means to "Abstain from...blood" as a finite negative?

"Do not ______"

If you can't do it, then my observation stands. The other three abstentions are the names of physical objects and don't have verb forms that have anything to do with their noun form in context.

Changing fornication to fornicate changes a noun to a verb. Both fornication and the taking other people's blood into the body denotes an action. Just because the latter (abstaining from blood) requires a few more words to describe the action doesn't mean anything.

WRONG - "Intravenous blood use" does not have contextual justification. The backdrop of the Decree and question under discussion was the extent to which Gentile converts needed to submit to the Law. Therefore the eating of blood as forbidden in the Law has explicit contextual support.

You keep objecting to this as if I'm making up something out of thin air that any student of the Bible should already know. Notice how the following translators completed the thought via interpolation:

"abstain from food that has been offered to idols, from tasting blood, from the flesh of animals that have been strangled, and from sexual vice." Moffat

"eat no food that has been offered to idols; eat no blood; eat no animal that has been strangled; and keep yourselves from immorality." TEV

"avoid what has been sacrificed to idols, tasting blood, eating the meat of what has been strangled and sexual immorality." Phillips

"You must not eat food that has been given to idols. You must not eat the meat of animals that are killed by choking. You must not tast blood. You must not commit adultery." The Bible in Worldwide English

The justification for the renderings above is openly stated even in JW literature. I'll quote a current (recent) source and an older source to show that this is nothing new:

"The decision then made was that circumcision was not required for Gentile believers but that they should keep free from idolatry, from eating and drinking of blood, and from sexual immorality. " Insight On The Scriptures Volume II p. 587.

"Each time the prohibition of blood is mentioned in the Scriptures, it is in connection with taking it as food and so it is as a nutrient that we are concerned with in its being forbidden." The Watchtower September 15th 1958 p. 575

Blood transfusions were not a part of contemporary society when the Bible was written.

rs p. 106 Drugs

Does the Bible actually forbid the use of drugs for pleasure?

It does not name such substances as heroin, cocaine, LSD, PCP (angel dust), marijuana, and tobacco. But it does provide needed guidelines so that we can know what to do and what to avoid in order to please God. Similarly, the Bible does not say that it is wrong to use a gun to kill someone, but it does forbid murder.

The guidelines are crystal clear regarding the proper use of blood.

Finally, I'm going to point out (again) that a comparison with alcohol is a false analogy. Blood is living tissue, not a simple compound that crosses any epethelial membrane. A transfusion of blood is for all intents and purposes, an organ transplant and this too has been openly acknowledged in JW literature.

The point of that analogy was to demonstrate that a directive to abstain from alcohol is no different than abstaining from blood. The author’s intended meaning doesn't allow for the substance to be injected into a person's veins in either instance.

Organ transplants and blood transfusions are not natural procedures accepted by the human body. Those who receive blood from another person face risks essentially similar to those undergoing an organ transplant. Immune responses tend to reject foreign tissue. In some cases, blood transfusions can actually prevent the activation of natural immune responses. Such immunosuppression leaves the patient vulnerable to postoperative infections and to viruses that had previously been inactive.

32

Blood

by Blind_Of_Lies in

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i have been doing a lot of mind searching on the issue of blood.

Maze

I also would like to point out that thos "The god playing pretentious assholes in Brooklyn" (love that btw) are in fact BLOOD GUILTY themselves. Their switching sides on the subject of blood and organ transplants over the years have caused the death of countless thousands of JW's and their innocent children.

The decision to abstain from blood is a Bible based, voluntary decision based on a Christian conscience. It has little to do with the administrative position of Jehovah's Organization. If you want to burn down someones bridge, take aim at the pro-choice abortion advocates in this country that approve of carelessly disposing of millions of human lives annually. In comparison, the blood issue is a drop in the bucket.