Lazarus

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Posts by Lazarus

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  68

  Your top 5 most irritating doctrines/practices?

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it's clear that virtually everyone on here is infuriated by wt teachings/doctrines/practices, but i would really like to know what is of most concern to people who frequent this forum.. here is my top 5, number 1 being the most significant/infuriating:.

  the disfellowshipping practice - expanded to include family members (but not parents) who are old enough to leave home.

  wrecks families and creates abject fear once people find out the truth about the organization.the blood issue - another unmerciful teaching, but one that costs lives.unquestioned authority of governing body - a handful of men make life-altering decisions as representatives of a larger group of people who they never see or speak to, and yet they demand unquestioning obedience on pain of being disfellowshipped.failed prophecy - the fulfilment of huge swathes of bible prophecy, including revelation, has been attributed to the events of the early 20th century, and the actions of a small group of men.two-tier christianity - faithful and discreet slave are anointed who go to heaven to whom ransom provisions apply directly, whereas remainder, or "great crowd" stay on earth and form a sub-class, only access benefits of ransom through fds.i realise that many of these issues are inter-related, but that's roughly how i would put them.

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  Lazarus

  1. Blood

  2. Disfellowshipping

  3. Failed Prophecy

  4. Intellectual dishonesty and deliberate refusal of logic

  5. Lack of freedom of speech
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  61

  How Many on JWNet are still JWs?

  by RayPublisher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been wondering about this for some time.

  if there are 60,000+ registered users on here, what percentage are actual non-dfed or non-daed witnesses?

  if it was 1/3, that would be over 20,000 active/inactive witnesses that post and read these pages- and that's huge.

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  Lazarus

  Still in, still active. Usual reason (family...).

  ..we now have sisters carrying the mics.

  I have just imagined how the sisters im my congo handle the mics with a covered head. Hilarious. Hope we will running out of "qualified" brothers.
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  23

  A good argument well won

  by DD10 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hi guy's.

  this is my first post on this site - i've just browsed for a few months.

  i've not been to the kh or remained in contact with my ex jw "freinds" for a number of years now.

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  Lazarus

  Had exactly the same thoughts in my early teenage years. Couldn't believe why God would allow so much evil to prove so little (or nothing at all). And, as PSacramento already said, Satan has to be the biggest idiot imaginable.

  Well done DD10.
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  81

  Why I didn’t left JW an don’t plan to do so

  by Lazarus in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:hyphenationzone>21</w:hyphenationzone> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>de</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="&#45;-" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!

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  in another thread i wrote: i didn't left the jw's and don't plan to do so.

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  Lazarus

  RHodge6685 wrote: "We're all in different circumstances and on different journies in life, so I wouldn't judge anyone for deciding it's best for them to stay in the WT or to leave. If someone feels it's better to leave, then I would try to support and encourage them in that. For me, it was better to leave, but I didn't have family to leave behind. That would make the decision a hundred times harder, I would imagine. I had friends to leave behind, but I found that I had truer, more supportive, and less judgmental friends on the outside. Only each individual can decide what is right for their own circumstances."

  AMEN

  To be absolute clear, I don’t criticize anyone for leaving. Everyone who is leaving I only wish the very best. Nevertheless I’m sure you’re better off with decisions based on careful thought and rationality than emotionality. In some situations you only have bad choices, but I prefer the bad over the worse.
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  81

  Why I didn’t left JW an don’t plan to do so

  by Lazarus in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

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  in another thread i wrote: i didn't left the jw's and don't plan to do so.

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  Lazarus

  Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts. Some of them kept me thinking, some of them let me cringe. I apologize for not addressing all of your comments.

  Mad Sweeney wrote: "What are the negatives of leaving that you see, (besides family shunning) both for yourself, and for "many on this board?"

  If shunning is the thing you try to avoid, there aren’t much more negatives needed.

  Billen76 wrote: "Just remember: By being part of the JW, you have part in the shared responsebility."

  I strongly disagree with you. Your argumentation is similar to the WTS when saying “You have to preach to avoid blood guilt”. I never converted anyone and it wasn’t mine idea to let people die because of refusing blood etc. It’s the WTS fault, not mine. My country sheds innocent blood in foreign countries. Do I have to leave the country and change my citizenship? I don’t think so.

  AllTimeJeff wrote: "Some people will not be better off being a JW or not. It's a false dichotemy to suggest that an unhappy person, or a person in an unhappy situation, will fix it simply by leaving JW's."

  I agree fully. But I’m a happy person and would be unhappy if I left. That’s something different.

  Black Sheep wrote: "As for your friends and relatives being hurt if you did DA, you would not be the cause of the hurt. The Watchtower is. If the WT didn't have them firmly, and illegitimately under mind control, they would not get hurt. Don't accept the blame for the bad behaviour of the WT and it's members. It is not your fault. Especially if you are a born-in."

  From a legalistic point of view, you’re absolutely right. But, in reality, even if it’s not your fault at all, but rather the fault of your friends and relatives, the consequences are the same. I leave -> people are hurt. Unfair, I know. But they are victims too, so I overlook their weakness.

  Violia wrote: "Usually they mark such persons and don't invite them to gatherings. Are all your friends on the outside?"

  2/3 are inside. No problems in socializing. In the "strong ones" I’m not interested anyway.

  “ if the org only knew how many stay in just for social reasons and lead double lives. “

  Maybe they know but don’t care that much.

  New chapter wrote: "You have to make your decision and choose what is best for you. However don't misinterpret the angst you see in some of the posts. The transition is difficult and painful--that is why they are posting--but it's worth it. Just because it isn't easy doesn't mean they aren't better off or should not have left. Some things are worth fighting for.

  You're in a tough spot. I'm sorry you have so many ties keeping you trapped. I wouldn't want to have to make your decisions. I'm glad you are carefully weighing the pros and cons."

  Good point. Thank you (and many more!) for your sympathie.

  Moshe wrote: "It seems that you are OK with not having any personal freedom and not having a life that is all yours."

  You couldn’t be more wrong about me. I have personal freedom galore and do whatever I want with very few constrictions. And NO ONE is having a life that all is his. Except maybe Chris McCandless and that didn’t go out that good.

  Apart from that, you may have left the JW’s, but your zeal for preaching is still intact, isn’t it?

  “Let us know in a year, if you are happy, really happy, with your decision to stay in the KH.”

  I've made my mind up in 1995 because of the changed generation teaching. Hence I believe one additional year will not make this big difference.
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  81

  Why I didn’t left JW an don’t plan to do so

  by Lazarus in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

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  in another thread i wrote: i didn't left the jw's and don't plan to do so.

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  Lazarus

  Haven't much time to answer...

  Thank you very much for your opinions. I respect all of them (ok, most of them. Jay, take your paranoia pills).

  I don't do any voluntary work, no door to door, no commenting in meetings, nada. Went to college, live my life as I want. If I'm viewed als "spiritually weak", so what?

  What would you do in my situation, if you knew that leaving would slowly kill one of your most beloved people?
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  81

  Why I didn’t left JW an don’t plan to do so

  by Lazarus in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:hyphenationzone>21</w:hyphenationzone> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>de</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="&#45;-" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!

  [endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"normale tabelle"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif].

  in another thread i wrote: i didn't left the jw's and don't plan to do so.

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  Lazarus

  In another thread I wrote: “I didn't left the JW's and don't plan to do so. Can't see what good it would do for me. It hasn't done much good for many on this board either. This doesn't mean I criticize anybody for his decision, it's only a conclusion.”

  Mad Sweeney asked me how I come to this opinion and encouraged me to open a new thread about it. So, here we are.

  When I would decide to disassociate from JWs, the consequences would be quite clear. I would lose my relationship with family and friends. Maybe even contact. The price to pay would be not only high for me, my beloved family and friends would suffer due to my decision too. Some of them more then they could bear.

  Further consequences could be necessity to relocate, depression, counseling and more.

  When I look at what I would gain leaving JWs, it appears to me not a quarter as good than the losses I would suffer. Therefore I will do what is best for me, namely stay a JW.

  When reading some posts on this board, I’m getting the strong impression some people which left the JWs would be better off if they didn’t (at least not now). And some others give everyone new here the advice “get out out out, now now now” regardless of the personal situation of the individual. The hate for the WTS seems to be bigger than the concern for the troubled person.

  My advice would be:

  Consider careful which decision will be the best for you. Make a list with all pro and cons. Weight every entry. Put them in the pair of balances. Examine which side outweighs the other. Do what is best for you.

  P.S.: Hate to write in English language.
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  69

  Who has NOT read Combatting Cult Mind Control or Crisis of Conscience?

  by Mad Sweeney in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  a lot of people here have read and highly recommend ccmc by steven hassan and coc by ray franz, myself included.

  i don't know how i would have handled leaving the borg without that knowledge.. so thinking that got me to wondering, who here has not read them (or has read one but not the other), and how are you coping with exiting the borg?

  did you get counseling?

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  Lazarus

  So thinking that got me to wondering, who here has NOT read them (or has read one but not the other), and how ARE you coping with exiting the Borg? Did you get counseling? Go to meetups? Just participate in online discussions? Got busy living and tried not to look back at all? What were your methods of exiting and adjusting and how successful do you feel they've been without the above-mentioned books?

  I've not read any of the books, but maybe will someday.

  To answer your other questions, I didn't left the JW's and don't plan to do so. Can't see what good would it do for me. It hasn't done much good for many on this board either. This doesn't mean I criticize anybody for his decision, it's only an conclusion.

  My life is certainly not perfect, but doing just fine and what I think is the best for me.
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  34

  Wifes leaving their husbands

  by Lazarus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this year alone, three wifes in my congo left their husband and da with jws (all of them have kids).

  similar cases are seen in nearby congos.

  its striking that far more women leave their man and the jws then man do.. i would like to know, whether this observation can be made in your area too.

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  Lazarus

  Thank you for your numerous responses.

  I think it is a general trend nowadays that more more women leave their man then opposite. I'm asking myself whether the driving factor for JW women leaving is because they are unhappy with their religion or with their marriage. Most likely something of both. It's very interesting to hear your viewpoints.

  By the way, two of the women are (or have been) married with JWs one with a "nonbeliever". All three of them have a new relationship.

  If this trend continues, there will be really hard times in affected congos. The mood in our congo is exceedingly depressive.
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  34

  Wifes leaving their husbands

  by Lazarus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this year alone, three wifes in my congo left their husband and da with jws (all of them have kids).

  similar cases are seen in nearby congos.

  its striking that far more women leave their man and the jws then man do.. i would like to know, whether this observation can be made in your area too.

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  Lazarus

  Hi to all!

  This year alone, three wifes in my congo left their husband and DA with JWs (all of them have kids). Similar cases are seen in nearby congos. Its striking that far more women leave their man and the JWs then man do.

  I would like to know, whether this observation can be made in your area too. If so, what do you think are reasons for this?

  Are there maybe female forum members who left ther husband and the JWs and can explain why they did it?

  P.S.: I'm no native english speaker, so I apologize for wrong grammar etc.