i just received news via yahoovoice chat re: a special pioneer "meeting" that is supposedly secret in nature and restricted to only certain congregations who received a letter with "christian cong" as letterhead.
i'm not clear on if some letters have that as their head and other letters had "wtbts" on them.
it is said to be held oct. 7, 2001 at jackmurphy stadium/ qualcomm stadium, san diego, ca.
This is the same telephone line type tie-in that JT was asking about in another thread. It's the non-business part of the annual meeting. Various places around the country will be doing the same thing.
They'll be told not to watch Dateline. (Just kidding. Then again, ...)
Max
i know this is kind of like shooting fish in a barrel, but i just have to share this email i got a few minutes ago.
i think it encapsulates the response many will have, no matter what is said about the molestation issue.
i invite you read it, put yourself in my shoes, and see how you might offer a response.
First order of business, go to bed and get a good night's sleep, Bill. Er, count sheep.
Second, tell me to do the same!
The writer betrays his own lack of understanding of society. Obviously he has no idea about the dynamics of child abuse, and thinks just like the Society that some good Scripture-reading and strong Bible counsel can fix the molester for good--if he repents!
After all, the Society in its letter to the body of elders August 1, 1995 said: "It is good to remember that the Bible, at Matthew 12:31 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, shows it is possible for a person to stop his or her wrongful course, repent, and thereafter live in harmony with God's righteous standards. This is true of all wrongdoers--even a former child abuser."
Proof positive they know absolutely nothing about the nature of abuse. Doesn't that trivialize this sick crime by lumping it in with the sinner of 1 Corinthians?
Your writer knows nothing of the positive programs out there in Catholic dioceses, or Episcopalian, Lutheran and Presbyterian churches. JWs are a half century behind, still stuck in thoughts about demons leaping into the picture and curing the perp by constant moralizing. And suggesting his therapy be FIELD SERVICE, along with meetings and prayer.
Nobody has an answer to this? Where has he been hiding. Ah, yes, in the Kingdom Hall preaching platitudes.
Hey, jerk; we're not trying to fix genetics or behavior, we're just trying to get the Society to address the real issue, which is the protection of kids not the fear of tarnishing someone's rep. Come to think of it, isn't their silence really fear of tarnishing GOD'S rep? The organization's marvelous rep? Same thing.
Stick with what God wants? This jaybird has never heard of Romans 13, the Superior Authorities, whose business it is to check out serious stuff like a kid's complaint of sexual abuse. JW elders certainly are not trained to do it, but there are professionals out there who can and do every day in our society. What about the family doctor? Specialists? Police? Like they've never experienced a story by Johnny that is not true?
Do they make mistakes? I'm sure they do. This is the very sticking point of the good old boys on the GB, who can't stomach the thought that some little kid could ruin the reputation of one of the "glorious ones," their elders.
Where is his sense of moral obligation to look out for children? Not say anything for fear of "humiliating" someone? Give me a break! Trot out early Christian behavior? Shame on him! Want me to cite a Scripture about how Jesus felt about children and the fate to those who would harm them?
The PR releases from Brooklyn say child abuse is a "serious crime." Why don't they treat it that way? Caesar has been around for a long time, there have been Watchtower articles on the subject. The answer is the superior authority, "for it is God's minister for you." The solution is to give positive encouragement to the reporting of child abuse--to the appropriate authorities. Take this part of it out of the judicial process that grinds to preserve the "purity of the congregation."
We don't offer solutions?
DUH.
Let him wait for the new system. I'm working at dragging this organization into the fifteenth century or higher, screaming and kicking if need be.
When I've done what my Christian conscience tells me to, I'm out of here, to get a life.
Guys like this have to be hit between the eyes with a bludgeon, perhaps, like the farmer who whacks his mule, to get its rapt attention.
I have a suggestion for this jerk; it's unprintable.
Max
BTW, Bill; I turn my mail off once in awhile. You don't have that luxury.
how - what - to whom - & where can addresses be found for various newspapers & wtbts?
ok, this has been pointedly mentioned by barbara anderson, maximus, larc - and actually done by zazuwitts - and others fine people here.
i've asked this before, and so have others (thankfully so i don't feel like the only simple one).
First, it's the tone of the letter that is important. Screaming epithets will land a letter in the trash pile. Letters that make a point will be treated differently, makes no difference whether handwritten or typed or computered or the like.
If you are concerned about your anonymity, make that a point of your presentation.
Use a pseudonym if you need to, but tell them why you feel you have to do so.
A blanket condemnation that "you have mislead me from Day One" will not be helpful. State your concerns forthrightly and from the heart.
If you write honestly "Here are my concerns," and then list reasons why, that can be most helpful.
If you know someone at Bethel, use their address. Mail will get to anyone addressed to 25 Columbia Heights, Brooklyn NY 11201. Write any Watchtower Society of your choosing, or the Christian Congregation in Patterson NY. It will be processed the same way.
Elders will be copied if you write something derogatory about them or if anything in your letter could be construed as grounds for investigation.
: If I sent a letter to someone specific, like a member of the elite, does some secretary open all mail, even personal appearing mail sent to him.
Not necessarily, but write with the thought someone could very well open the mail. Handwritten envelopes do better. Policies vary.
I'm regularly asked if it is appropriate to write questions about the blood policy. Of course it is, but it's certainly better to present your thoughts in a non-challenging way so they don't write you off as merely disgruntled for some other reason. If it is inconsistent to you, tell them why you think it is. You have a right to ask them any question you like, but prudence suggests it is better to do so in a reasonable way.
I've offered some thoughts off the top of my head, and I hope others will make similar suggestions that will be practical.
And Waiting still has the floor with her questions as well ...
Maximus
i post the following at the request of barbara anderson.. .
as a result of the newspaper report calling attention to my actions i feel compelled to provide further information that has come to light and deserves full exposure.. the society is very much aware of my intentions, because of a private e-mail i innocently wrote someone was forwarded to the society without my permission.
you can read it in its entirety, below.
Jeremy B, could you drop me a note? I've lost your address.
Max
can anyone tell me the current policy for funerals and memorial services?.
mom was here today and evening, stayed for dinner, and we talked about the services for henry.
she wants there to be a portion of the service where people in attendance can tell things they want to say about him.
Doc Bob tells is like it is.
Marilyn, steel yourself for the likelihood they will make a display of wallowing in loyalty to the organization, at your expense, with no thought to your precious mother.
It would be refreshing to hear a different tale later on, but I hear this story over and over and over.
Name, rank and serial number.
WITNESS in stupefying dullness.
I know of a funeral where a young DA widow got up to speak at her husband's funeral, with small grieving children--the JWs left en masse in a disgusting display of "loyalty" to an organization and total disrespect for a good man and his family.
You might try getting someone else to intercede for a true memorial rather than a funeral, so they don't see it as a control issue with you. Appeal for a personalized memorial to sustain your already distraught mother. Hopefully some heart can be touched.
Hurting for you,
Max
i post the following at the request of barbara anderson.. .
as a result of the newspaper report calling attention to my actions i feel compelled to provide further information that has come to light and deserves full exposure.. the society is very much aware of my intentions, because of a private e-mail i innocently wrote someone was forwarded to the society without my permission.
you can read it in its entirety, below.
This morning I spoke with Barbara about our two families and we reminisced about what it was like to attend eight-day conventions from 8 in the morning till 9 at night, to hear Brother Knorr speak overtime, once for nearly 4 hours! Interesting to note that families were then united in working in a kitchen to provide food, were in the family car for days on end traveling to Yankee Stadium … much easier to be cohesive than today, perhaps.
We spoke of our four-decades-long marriages and a comment made on this thread about wives, which prompted this post. Successful marriages that have survived that long are built on the solid foundation of partnership. As a prominent male, I got the glory while my wife did her thing in the background, and while I knew her contribution was even greater than mine, often. Looking back, the days in traveling work robbed us of intimacy oftentimes; I regret that deeply. My wife, like so many others, has paid a terrible price.
When the call of a tragedy would come to an elder’s home, the one who picked up the phone was generally the wife, because her husband was at work. (Today there is voice mail.) She would throw the children in the car and provide what comfort she could till the spirit-appointed overseer would take over. Some things about the congregation she learned about but did not pry, she was just there to give succor to a husband regularly overburdened and to care for the family.
Joe Anderson was called back to Bethel because of his technical skills. His wife Barbara was excess baggage, as is often the case. Since she had been a mother, at least she could provide stability and an example of maturity to younger ones at Bethel. What overseers found out was that this remarkable woman possessed not just a heart, but a head. And so they eventually put it to work.
If you picture an aggressive woman running ahead, eradicate that notion. This meek woman did just what they told her to do. The GB ultimately was responsible for putting her in a position in which she learned more than both she and they bargained for.
Those of us who have been in Writing, Service or similar departments learn all too quickly what the organization’s very real and ugly problems are, and at first this is viewed as some kind of personal test: seeing imperfection, but still loyally embracing "God’s organization." The conscience also pricks from time to time, but humility overrides.
You can read for yourself and fill in the blanks what happened with Barbara. She learned facts, read real experiences, talked with real people, but was in no position to do anything about her feelings and conclusions; for that was the job of male overseers and shepherds.
There was no way her husband could deal with these issues, because he had no leverage whatsoever. Knowing Joe, it must have been extremely difficult for him to grasp that basic policy and practice in the field was so badly flawed in God’s very own organization. Policy did change, but the GB had to be prodded mightily for years. That story will be told accurately and honestly, for all to hear.
I want you to remember this: even as fathers do not experience the pain of childbirth, Joe did not have the experience his wife did in her daily touch with the real organization at its highest levels and in her seeing its fruitage. He could not validate her experience, but he could validate and value his life-time partner. It would have been impossible for HIM to take the stand SHE has taken, because he has not walked in her shoes. It's that simple.
A loyal elder whose life is bound up with the organization, Joe Anderson is also a remarkable person who has spent his entire life doing it by the theocratic book and his understanding of the Bible. You will find him unceasingly taking the lead in door-to-door work, and in every activity expected of a JW elder. His love for the brothers is obvious. Anyone who has ever been around him inside and outside Bethel knows this for an absolute fact. His loyalty has been profound to a fault.
A prominent organizational specialist says that you should plant a garden only the size of what you can water.
Joe went back home with Barbara, and has been busy setting a fine example to others and tending to his little congregation with great love and care. No wonder fellow elders love him and support him personally. I have watched him go from a young man to one now completely white-headed. What has not changed is his quick warm smile and his deep compassion for others.
It’s not about gonads or ovaries, or pushing ahead. It’s about a loving life-time partnership.
And Christian conscience.
Maximus
i post the following at the request of barbara anderson.. .
as a result of the newspaper report calling attention to my actions i feel compelled to provide further information that has come to light and deserves full exposure.. the society is very much aware of my intentions, because of a private e-mail i innocently wrote someone was forwarded to the society without my permission.
you can read it in its entirety, below.
: Max: The amusing part of dilemmas is that the folks at Legal, GB, etc are probably pairing off into camps on how best to deal with this catastrophe, and regardless what occurs, one bunch will be blaming the other. Anytime there is internal discord, there is the possibility of a domino effect
Mad One, I'm sitting here really laughing my head off, because you have put your finger PRECISELY on what is happening; trust me. Don't think for one minute their only interest is policy or Barbara, but POWER and CONTROL and possible loss thereof.
You see it clearly, friend. Those with their wits about them are indeed SCARED. Their pockets are not as deep as the Catholic Church and neither can they afford to lose their market, and especially those liberals who have heretofore supported them even in kooky policies.
The hardliners just say, "Well, that proves we are deep in the time of the end, persecution is to be expected, of all things a woman, JEZEBEL influence, blah, blah." That latter would not work with anyone at Bethel who knows Barbara; they would die laughing at the mere thought. Barbara is not a stereotypical frustrated elderette who tries to drive from the back seat! (I'll write more of that later.)
I need to get some things done but will come back to some very interesting points you have made that need amplification, and might be helpful to many who are following this with great interest.
For now, let me note something. When a little fish defaults on a mortgage, a bank will come down harshly with both feet. A more prominent person can do the same thing and the bank may bend over backward, in enlightened self-interest.
This is breaking new ground. The Society cannot afford an Elian Gonzalez story that captures the American public. For now Barbara may wind up merely talking to Katie Couric on the Today show, as NBC builds up for its Dateline program.
But if the Society is not careful, she AND Joe may wind up on Oprah before yet another huge audience--just telling the truth, with no axe to grind, no matter what label the Society attempts to tag them with.
Disgruntled? Not.
Opposers of the preaching work? Not.
Gone back to the vomit of Christendom's doctrines of hell-fire and Trinity? Not.
Oh, and MA, Dateline will not let you down with a scanty program.... The producer is a pro with great experience.
In answer to other questions, the Society is VERY MUCH concerned about public opinion, and letters about child abuse, the inconsistent blood policy and the like will take their toll.
Barbara is very much her own person, as is Bill Bowen. They have no PR firm and as was pointed out above, they have no battery of attorneys. YOU are all they have. I am still greatly impressed with what ZaZu Witts has done, and I hope that Larc will comment on that in this thread if ZZ is too modest to do so. What is stopping YOU from writing the Brooklyn Heights Press, or Gustav Niebuhr, religious editor of the NY Times, or anyone else?
Maximus
i am reposting this topic, that was posted on this board a couple of months ago.
i am posting this as my part of my message to the governing body, in support of silent lambs and barbara anderson.
i will also add further comments to this post shortly.. re: who are the governing body?a true story.
I asked for a repeat of this post for several reasons, one of which was to educate persons on this board who yearn for the time when the "old men" on the GB will die off. They have been dying off, and guess who has replaced them?
This will give you some very accurate insight into Ted's Toadies.
Maximus
i thought this article from the september 2001 kingdom ministry was very interesting.. get out there and sell those books!!!.
is it an obstacle to preaching?.
most people lead busy lives.
: A more modest life style will go a long way toward eliminating this obstacle to our preaching.
Translation: We prefer you to be a migrant farm worker, but they have to spend too many hours working.
Are you struggling to make a living because you did not get an education, thinking the end was right around the corner? Well, cut back your work even further to preach even more urgently.
Building up reserves? Will anyone handle this part with a straight face?
Insanity, insanity, insanity.
Maximus
i post the following at the request of barbara anderson.. .
as a result of the newspaper report calling attention to my actions i feel compelled to provide further information that has come to light and deserves full exposure.. the society is very much aware of my intentions, because of a private e-mail i innocently wrote someone was forwarded to the society without my permission.
you can read it in its entirety, below.
Let me clarify some points for questioners.
Brother Anderson is fully supportive of his wife. He is also a loyal elder.
The letter from the Christian Congregation is most unusual in that it tells the elders to meet with her, or let the matter rest if she chooses not to meet. Thus no judicial committee has been formed. This is unusual because the choice to let the matter rest therefore became Barbara's if she chose not to meet with them.
There simply are no grounds for judicial action. That's their dilemma.
While Barbara is uncomfortable in the spotlight, she is not uncomfortable in following the dictates of her Christian conscience, or in showing the pure sterling quality of compassion for children, as exemplified by Jesus.
Maximus
