Posts by Maximus

61

Is this Completely Apostate

by redline in

jw
friends

i just happened on this place a few days ago, and thought i would stop in to see what it was all about.

it claims to be a jehovah's witness forum, which it is not.. dont want to come here and point fingers, as i am sure there are some good people in here, just seems the bad have followed the good.

i guess in reality thats always the case, but hey, what else would these people do if they couldn't wage their little war on the truth.

Maximus

::Facilis descensus Averno

(I've capped the A)

Redline, I'm inferring from this quotation both sensitivity and concern, and maybe some book learning. If you take the time to read the stories of the folks who post here, you'll see a common thread: it is not their past gullibility but rather their anguish on finding out and ultimately admitting that an organization has deceived them.

The path has been extremely painful for most; the "descent" not easy at all. For many it would have been easier to hang on. Finally out of the dark wood there is not Avernus, but the light, and the quiet joy of freedom.

It's very simple: if the blind follow the blind, then both fall into the ditch.

Right now you are a follower following followers following followers. It's not about minutiae. If you stick with the organization, you will eventually remember my words a few years down the pike.

Maximus

61

Is this Completely Apostate

by redline in

jw
friends

i just happened on this place a few days ago, and thought i would stop in to see what it was all about.

it claims to be a jehovah's witness forum, which it is not.. dont want to come here and point fingers, as i am sure there are some good people in here, just seems the bad have followed the good.

i guess in reality thats always the case, but hey, what else would these people do if they couldn't wage their little war on the truth.

Maximus

::Time frames of the end were often constructed within the flock, not given directly from the society

This is simply untrue. Eventually you will do some research on your own and find out the truth.

30

DON ADAMS BIOGRAPHY

by bj in

jw
friends

what do you know about the new president of the wts, don adams?

(all anecdotes needed)

Maximus

Yikes, Farkel! You do know how to squeeze the old coronaries--thought you were going to out me. I still want to retain old connections ... leave the timing to me, and don't put too fine a point ...

It will be up to the reader to sort the wheat from the chaff, but there is plenty of the former in your post. (DF? No.) I try to refrain from saying something like "Mac himself told me one day while we were strolling ..." because I despise grandstanding, and too many have pretended to be who they are not. But I will attempt to be helpful from time to time by offering facts but never assertions.

I have affection for the brothers Adams. As to Don, he is essentially a decent man but steeped in the organization; still runs the show. Society men develop a certain survivalist mindset. For the questioner, Don is not a domineering man and certainly no Rutherford or Knorr, whom he worked with for many decades. He's run the show for years, and the corporate change now allows him to do his thing without Ted Jaracz mucking about in that area.

I do not choose to go beyond JT's remarks, except to say that Karl was absolutely crucial to both Knorr and Franz, who wore him down. He has a first-class mind. Mmmm, Joel was never hardline in our interactions. I doubt they were related to the family mentioned above.

And JT, I was delighted to see your posts. I hope your very beautiful family is well and thriving. You've certainly healed well.

Maybe more later. Got a life.
Maximus

23

ALEXANDER H. MACMILLAN

by bj in

jw
friends

in the book faith on the march by alexander h. macmillan, page 43 it states:.

"in october, 1902, i attended a convention in washington, d.c., where i was married.

my wife and i then spent a year in california, returning in 1904 to allegheny.".

Maximus

Too complicated to go into here, so let me be simplistic.

In the view of JW culture, the Elijah-like "mantle" ostensibly passed from Russell to Rutherford--thence to Knorr, supported by Franz, as Knorr was not an author but an organizer (no, not a businessman) and Fred was the oracle.

Jan is quite right in citing Jim Penton's excellent summarizing what the charismatic Mac did as "Macchiavellian." He was the enforcer. Don't measure internal feelings by external actions. Happens all the time. The end justifies the means. (If you have not read Penton, you should.)

Remember, David did not touch the 'hem of Saul's garment,' Saul being the Lord's anointed, but "waited on Jehovah." That's JW tradition and culture at Bethel. Figured in what happened when Ray Franz and Ed Dunlap were clearly coming up with inconsistencies. The GB was not about to accord the mantle to Ray, no matter how much sense he made. Knorr chafed at having been reduced himself in the elder arrangement; and Fred was, of course, challenged in theological authority.

I'm sure he knew that Ray was right in his facts, but like a good lawyer Fred could strenuously argue both sides of an issue--invariably coming down on the side of expediency IMNSHO. I have personal knowledge of specific situations in which Fred knew the facts but felt it his duty to support the man with the mantle, as he saw it, despite his personal feelings.

One of their problems today is that no one really has the mantle of real authority to cut through the crap, although there are good men around who clearly know what to do. One GB member can despise another, yet do nothing about it. All very Byzantine, this palace intrigue.

Enough said.

M

59

Blood, The Watchtower and Deceit

by Maximus in

jw
friends

while much attention is given to doctrine in sites such as this, very little is noted about the watchtower societys intellectual dishonesty in its publications, especially when it comes to quotations.. oftentimes the societys writers will cite a scholar or author of some repute: "professor blank observes that blah, blah, blah.

" the reader assumes from the quotation that professor blank is in agreement with the organizations position, of course, and that the quotation chosen accurately depicts the authors thoughts.. heres the catch: the words between the quotation marks may be accurate, but the snippet may not at all faithfully represent someones actual thesis or position.

much like a newspaper ad for a movie that quotes a reviewer as saying "monumental!

Maximus

Mulan:
Dramas, groan. Memories. They were developed by Ulysses V. Glass and Ed Dunlap, Gilead instructors, to give some life to dull conventions. Ray Franz was in the first drama, Jeremiah, playing the lead in a Canadian presentation under Ulys' direction, when it was found that folks just could not pull off live presentations without lip-synchs. Tapes were hastily sent out, too late to change casts, some of whom just didn't fit the voice.

BTW, This is the actual costume of Maximus in "Gladiator."

When the narrow jpg gets sized, looks like someone has gained an awful lot of weight. The full shot is in the Blood post. Funny, I had just posted you privately via hotmail.

Francoise, Dr. Ed Gruss wrote a book some time ago that took a look at the Society's Patristic quotations, citing the early church fathers out of context, either through ignorance or design. (The title does not readily come to mind.) The only ones who did not were men like Ed Dunlap and Ray Franz.

M

2

Jehovah's Witnesses and Blood Banks

by MacHislopp in

jw
friends

few years ago i came across an interesting article.

(pub.

in the free minds journal and still avalaible in the www), wrote .

Maximus

::who would be able to debate, to give reasonable, logical answers to her questions?

I started to reply, Fred Rusk; two out of three ain't bad. But that's so flip.

The real answer is, NO ONE. And there is no oracular Fred Franz around today to charismatically and fancifully "adjust" the policy in a way acceptable to others, as he did with vaccination, which was virtually accomplished overnight by fiat. New members of the GB are theological lightweights. Long-time member Lyman Swingle had been opposed to current policy for many years; but he's dead now. Hard feelings have developed over this issue, within the GB and assistants.

Reason and logic have gone out the window. All they can trot out is such nonsense as, "What part of 'abstain from blood' don't you understand?" Fact is, this issue has been the subject of hot discussion (there is no true debate) among the governing body and those decision makers closely associated with them who clearly understand the glaring inconsistencies in this horribly flawed policy that has cost so many lives, particularly children's.

"Debate? Discussion?" I thought the holy spirit ..." For those who do not know it, JW policy is set by majority vote. Just one person can make the difference.

Imagine, you can take blood from a cow and make Hemopure which is an acceptable product to take. (Shades of the Masai warrior drinking cow blood.) But you cannot take packed red cells which carry the same hemoglobin, DONATED by some generally unselfish human who may very well altruistically want to help another human being--and who did not have to give up his life.

Fractions JWs take come from DONATED blood, and it takes a ton of such to provide what they take; you've accurately supplied the figures. No pun intended, JWs have long been a drain on the blood supply in just taking fractions, without reciprocating by donating blood. Love your neighbor as yourself?

Take a look at the new JW video on blood and you will lose your lunch. It's for idiots only, and will be ridiculed by any thinking professional as being ignorant and slanted. But that's not whom they are aiming for.

The overriding point is, How can one literally let a child bleed to death, to symbolically show respect for the sanctity of life? The Pharisees live!

Why does it not disturb JWs that not ONE single scholar, anywhere, agrees with their interpretation of the scriptures? (See my post on Blood, the Watchtower and Deceipt. Should have titled it Boobs or the like.)

Someone posted the other day what is an excellent overview of the issue, which many inside Bethel secretly subscribe to: http://www.jwbloodreview.org/

The material there is not being refuted. All they will tell you is that "this is not the Society's position" at the present time, although you may get someone to whisper that "maybe something will be printed in the future on this," which is not very satisfying.

Maximus

59

Blood, The Watchtower and Deceit

by Maximus in

jw
friends

while much attention is given to doctrine in sites such as this, very little is noted about the watchtower societys intellectual dishonesty in its publications, especially when it comes to quotations.. oftentimes the societys writers will cite a scholar or author of some repute: "professor blank observes that blah, blah, blah.

" the reader assumes from the quotation that professor blank is in agreement with the organizations position, of course, and that the quotation chosen accurately depicts the authors thoughts.. heres the catch: the words between the quotation marks may be accurate, but the snippet may not at all faithfully represent someones actual thesis or position.

much like a newspaper ad for a movie that quotes a reviewer as saying "monumental!

Maximus

For CS, DS and RW

23

ALEXANDER H. MACMILLAN

by bj in

jw
friends

in the book faith on the march by alexander h. macmillan, page 43 it states:.

"in october, 1902, i attended a convention in washington, d.c., where i was married.

my wife and i then spent a year in california, returning in 1904 to allegheny.".

Maximus

Permit a small expansion, hippikon. It was

Jehovah's Witnesses--the New World Society.
Vantage Press, 1956

You can read the whole thing in German on the internet:
http://www.rofrisch.de/mcole/

Faith on the March was the Society's attempt to spin and rebut Schnell's book, which they were extremely concerned about. Although mostly written by Mac, the manuscript was read by many at Bethel, including Fred Franz, who did not bother to correct glaring inaccuracies, including the hype about his own college background and the "Rhodes scholar" nonsense. (Fred was a actually a dropout in the spring of his Junior year, falling for the 1914 stuff of the good Pastor, then just months off. He, of course, never took a course in Biblical Greek.) Mac was very outgoing, forceful in personality and in private made no bones about his distaste for the Judge, in comparison to the "saintly" Pastor.

Maximus

18

"THE GLORIOUS ONES" WT TWISTING THE ...

by ARoarer in

jw
friends

i have been reading from other bibles and comparing them to the wt.

translation in the nwt and found it interesting that the information that they use in the reasoning book regarding apostates is taken from jude and the experience of korah with moses.

it seems they use this scripture to identify elders as the "glorious ones", and anyone speaking against the society is compared to korah speaking against moses.

Maximus

2

For Kent

by Maximus in

jw
friends

who's good at history and ... prophecy?

let me see.. "everybody knows that stimulated by printing there has been a greater development of knowledge along every line within the past century than during the preceding fifty-nine centuries.

everybody knows that the telegraph, telephone, wireless, electric lights, gas lights, steam railroads, electric roads, machinery, conveniences, etc., of our day were all unknown a century ago.

Maximus

Who's good at history and ... prophecy? Let me see.

"Everybody knows that stimulated by printing there has been a greater development of knowledge along every line within the past century than during the preceding fifty-nine centuries. Everybody knows that the telegraph, telephone, wireless, electric lights, gas lights, steam railroads, electric roads, machinery, conveniences, etc., of our day were all unknown a century ago.

"But although we know this to be true, it seems almost incomprehensible to the rising generation. These things have come so gradually that few realize that they are foregleams of the great thousand-year Day of Messiah's Kingdom in which the curse will be fully removed, and instead the blessing long- promised of God will be outpoured upon humanity abundantly.

"The Bible declares the coming glory of Earth, when God shall make the place of His feet glorious, when the whole Earth shall be a Paradise of God. Our great scientists, who give no heed to the Bible, testify that present attainments are as nothing to what is just at hand.

"God describes our day in Daniel's prophecy, saying, In the Time of the End (of this Age), many shall run to and fro; knowledge shall be increased; the wise shall understand... and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation.--Daniel 12:1-10; Matthew 24:21.

"Are we not in the midst of the running to and fro which this prophecy predicted? We must, therefore, be living today in the period designated the Time of the End--the time in which this Age will gradually close and the New Age will gradually dawn with greater blessings. The first locomotive was built only ninety years ago. Now, in every land, multitudes are running to and fro, whose grandfathers probably never traveled fifty miles from their birthplace. Surely no prophecies could be more accurately fulfilled than this one."

Son, I'm so happy that when I returned in 1914 there was indeed a group on earth who understood prophecy and boldly published the truth, as in the historical Photo-Drama of Creation, cited above.
--JC