Posts by Mazza

20

RABBIT-PROOF FENCE - Go & see it!!

by singsongboi in

jw
friends

the 'rabbit proof fence' is an australian movie that tells the story of some aboriginal children who escape from a camp established by evil white australians with the mentality of the biblical joshua.. it's just been released in the us.. if you want to understand australia and australians you should see this movie.

it tells a story that should deeply shame all modern australians, but sadly, many, maybe a majority, are not ashamed!!!!.

it was made by phillip noyce, who has also directed good movies like, patriot games, the bone collector, clear & present danger, the saint.. noyce & his male partner live in a funky old house at palm beach nsw, and their home & lifestyle was recently featured on national tv in an australian show called "burke's backyard.. hope this link to a site for the film works..... .

Mazza

Hi guys - and hugs to brucie! Anyhaw, I was going to give the film a miss coz of all the trouble they had with those kids trying to make the movie. Not to mention it would be racist. Twice I saw the documentary they made of the making of the movie and at least one of those girls gave em' hell. A second girl followed her lead most of the time and the other little one seemed well behaved. I didn't think they would ever get the film together and if they did, I didn't see how they could get enough reasonable footage without that girl throwing her weight around and messing up each scene. If Phillip Noyce managed to get her on track, he's a miracle maker. If she'd have been my kid I would have cheefully strangled her.

Racism. It's everywhere. Every culture suffers from it. And those who accuse people of it also suffer from it. It's just the way we are. We are suspicious of anything different. Australia is not worse than any where else.

What happened to the aborigines is shocking. It's a miserable mess. But had we been there at the time would we have done anything any different? It's all very well now that we live in an enlightened age - but back then people thought differently - people's opinions were moulded by their environement, their education and their financial situation. The people who got shipped out to TAsmania (my ancestors) didn't have it too good either. I don't feel responsible for that or anything else that happened back then. I only have to feel responsible for how I act now.

Marilyn - reporting from Hong Kong - where there are hundreds of thousands of Filipino maids many of whose circumstances are disgraceful. Our maids room is the size of a broom cupboard it has no window and is only big enough to fit a specially made bed. I wouldn't even put my cat in there!

sorry for raving.

70

Bill Bowen's Use of "Fake Precision"

by Psychdigg in

jw
friends

the fake precision fallacy involves making a claim with a mathematical precision that is impossible to obtain.. he does this on his site where he starts with an alleged and unsupported figure that the watchtower has a file of some 23,000 child molesters and runs that figure up to the point where it becomes absolutely absurd.

his purpose is to persuade readers that jehovah's witnesses are a hot bed of child molestation.

the problem is that he starts with at best very dubious sources and then he takes this data and treats it as if it is precise and factual.. it is not unusual for many of us to use a frivolous "false precision" in making statements.

Mazza

If a man commits fornication it is a sin against God. If a man molests a child it is a crime. This is the crux of the problem. Religions have ALL (including jws) attempted 'damage control' without involving the law. I don't believe the JW authority system intends to support child molesters. Its mistake is in believing it has the God given authority to deal with the problem its own way. It is impossible to say whether JW have tried to keep a lid on the problem because of the bad impression it creates or whether they truly believe they are dealing with it in a Christian way.

Jehovah's Witnesses are behaving like all the other churches have behaved in their early stages of dealing with the problem - only now JWs have added another dimension - disfellowshipping whistle blowers. Although the catholic church hasn't taken this high profile step it has done so on a personal basis. A victim interviewed on BBC tv last nite said that priests and worshippers at his old church won't talk with him. It would seem human behavior is predictable the world over.

Marilyn

70

Bill Bowen's Use of "Fake Precision"

by Psychdigg in

jw
friends

the fake precision fallacy involves making a claim with a mathematical precision that is impossible to obtain.. he does this on his site where he starts with an alleged and unsupported figure that the watchtower has a file of some 23,000 child molesters and runs that figure up to the point where it becomes absolutely absurd.

his purpose is to persuade readers that jehovah's witnesses are a hot bed of child molestation.

the problem is that he starts with at best very dubious sources and then he takes this data and treats it as if it is precise and factual.. it is not unusual for many of us to use a frivolous "false precision" in making statements.

Mazza

dungbeetle, so you are saying that statistically jws are on target for these crimes? I would have thought that Bill's figures were statistically on target also. Witnesses who hear about such problems in the Org, can't get their heads around this stuff - even if the Tower posted the information, they wouldn't be able to process it in it's proper manner e.g. that they are just an average religion with average problems. So they have to deny or forget the facts. I was watching a BBC item about molestation in the catholic church last nite and basically they didn't want to know either. It's not because of the leaders that this stuff is out in the open. And it's the reason it's gone on so long - denial - it caused tens of thousands more kids to go on being molested.

The witnesses have got a loooooooooooooong way to go because their need to deny is stronger than the others, coz they got the troof and it can't be happening to them right?

8

Our Watchtower wedding.

by Mazza in

jw
friends

thirty years ago today, i walked down the isle of the kingdom hall to be given in marriage.

surprsingly we are still married!.

david was 20 yrs old and i was 19. we had been baptised about 6 months earlier and had been dating since i was 14 and david 15. i had family who were jws and i became really interested when i was about 17. i managed to convert david within a year or two.. once we were baptised we were pressured by the congregation to get married as they didn't think it appropriate that we should keep dating, year in year out "without marriage in view" - though we had no money nor did either of us have a full time job.

Mazza

Hey Backlash, I'm honoured that your first post is to me. Welcome to the board. Thanx for your very good wishes. I'm going to sound real boring now, but we've had a so many good times in our marriage that going to Macau for the weekend was just a formality. David is working in Hong Kong for a while, so Macau is very convenient.

I've had some bad luck in my life (10 yrs to the sect and lost my family to it etc) but being married to David was the good hand I was delt and I thankfully didn't blow it!!!!

Hope to hear more about you in the future.

Marilyn

70

Bill Bowen's Use of "Fake Precision"

by Psychdigg in

jw
friends

the fake precision fallacy involves making a claim with a mathematical precision that is impossible to obtain.. he does this on his site where he starts with an alleged and unsupported figure that the watchtower has a file of some 23,000 child molesters and runs that figure up to the point where it becomes absolutely absurd.

his purpose is to persuade readers that jehovah's witnesses are a hot bed of child molestation.

the problem is that he starts with at best very dubious sources and then he takes this data and treats it as if it is precise and factual.. it is not unusual for many of us to use a frivolous "false precision" in making statements.

Mazza

Phych, I must admit that I am one who has bypassed 99% of the posts about child molestation within the Org. I never saw any evidence of it in my neck of the woods when I was a witness 20 yrs ago - and it's a particularly distastful subject to me. Just because I didn't experience it or don't like the subject doesn't mean it doesn't go on. Your head in the sand attitude is understandable - but if you look at the figures that Bill is quoting - it's still only a very small percentage of JWs. I'm not good at Math, but 32000 or was it 23000 on 6 million is not a big figure - when you take it world wide. As you know, JWs are not perfect and hold within their ranks all kinds of sinners - do you think JWs are exempt from this particular sin - and why would that be, if your answer is yes?

Marilyn

8

Our Watchtower wedding.

by Mazza in

jw
friends

thirty years ago today, i walked down the isle of the kingdom hall to be given in marriage.

surprsingly we are still married!.

david was 20 yrs old and i was 19. we had been baptised about 6 months earlier and had been dating since i was 14 and david 15. i had family who were jws and i became really interested when i was about 17. i managed to convert david within a year or two.. once we were baptised we were pressured by the congregation to get married as they didn't think it appropriate that we should keep dating, year in year out "without marriage in view" - though we had no money nor did either of us have a full time job.

Mazza

Thirty years ago today, I walked down the isle of the Kingdom Hall to be given in marriage. Surprsingly we are still married!

David was 20 yrs old and I was 19. We had been baptised about 6 months earlier and had been dating since I was 14 and David 15. I had family who were jws and I became really interested when I was about 17. I managed to convert David within a year or two.

Once we were baptised we were pressured by the congregation to get married as they didn't think it appropriate that we should keep dating, year in year out "without marriage in view" - though we had no money nor did either of us have a full time job. I was pioneering and David was finishing a university degree to please his worldy parents. My parents gave us $500 to spend on a wedding, but we preferred to save the money towards the preaching work and so our wedding was a rather dismal affair with nothing of a celebratory tone about it. Every thing was borrowed or recycled - even our shoes. You name it - we did it on the cheap. I tend to think the brides of war time England with their severe rationing managed a more joyous event than our wedding.

We had an afternoon tea held in a dingy library hall - where our meetings were held in those days. I had given the sisters sixty dollars to spend on tea, coffee and milk and to buy a few cakes. Witness guests were meant to bring a plate, but I guess it was an off pay week and very little food was contributed . I was terribly embarrassed as Davids parents and friends were professional people - engineers and arcitects etc. God only knows what they thought of the occassion. Laughable I imagine.

The only thing I regret is not having real flowers to carry in my hand. I would have loved to have had one item of decadence to lend some class to the occassion.

We left the wedding group to go out to dinner - David recalls we ordered a half bottle of wine between us and then we returned to our newly rented apartment - which was a looooooong way short of luxurious. We didn't go on a honeymoon.

We stayed witnesses for another eight long years after that. When we left, a CO told me that David would be unlikely to stay faithful to me outside the umbrella of the Organisation. I took that as an mean spirited insult and told him I'd take my chances - (coz I didn't think I was that bloody ugly)!

Anyway I guess there is a moral to the story - the wedding day doesn't count for much. We've had a great life together and we just spend the weekend in Macau where we paid an exhorbant amount of money to stay in a five star hotel with all the trimmings. We don't need that stuff - but it's nice to be able to do it occasionally.

Anyone else with a wt wedding story?

Marilyn

25

WTS Hypocrisy Digging Their Own Grave WT 6/15/02

by Reborn2002 in

jw
friends

i received the 6/15/02 watchtower in the mail today.. for those that do not know, 2005 is the new predicted end date for this "system of things.".

reference: .

http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/2005.htm.

Mazza

I just noticed all the bolded comments that REborn 2002 kindly did for us - to save us the leg work. If you quickly skim the bolded comments you get the picture that the WTS is not too subtly trying to convey. Interesting that they can lead the insightful jw drones in this way and then when 2005 comes and goes without event, they can say "we never predicted a date" and blame it all on the drones for reading too much into the literature. I'm a little embarrassed that most of us took so long to see what you were trying to tell us Reborn. We needed the help of our internet study conductor (dmouse) to help us get the point. Yikes!!!

Marilyn

25

WTS Hypocrisy Digging Their Own Grave WT 6/15/02

by Reborn2002 in

jw
friends

i received the 6/15/02 watchtower in the mail today.. for those that do not know, 2005 is the new predicted end date for this "system of things.".

reference: .

http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/2005.htm.

Mazza

dmouse, I got more of a high from your response than I did from my 6ish gin and tonic. Loved it - you make the rest of us look like amateurs.

I think some of the others were having trouble coz they spend too much time in the real world where such dizzy leaps of logic are considered insanity.

Alchemist said: I'm still trying to figure out 1935! 1914 at least had WW1 to make it look somewhat valid but what about 1935?

Well I don't know the answer but I suspect it was given to us in the opening WT quotes, but I could take a stab in the dark - hey if it's good enough for the Tower!? It's either the date of an international convention where they put the world on notice or was it when the great crowd were discovered. (under a rock) Now I'll have to go back and read the all those annoying WT quotes to find the answer. Hey, just like old times!!!

Marilyn

22

Soon... very soon

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

any day now.. just around the corner.

sooner than you think.

i'm sick of hearing that from my dad.. "as every one knows, there are mistakes in the bible" - the watchtower, april 15, 1928, p. 126 .

Mazza

mayer2, try; same shit, different century!

Did the dubs predict the end in the 19th century too? If they did, their "real soon" spans three centuries now.

20

I Want My Money Back!

by Beck_Melbourne in

jw
friends

do you remember the donation box on a stand at the back of the kingdom hall, or sitting on the coffee table in the centre of the room at the book study?

since i was a little kid i remember my grandmother giving me a few coins to put in the box for the world wide preaching work fund...and then as i grew older...i was given a note or two...this time for a neighbouring kingdom hall fund.

as time went by...an adult in my own right...i would discreetly put in a few notes for the kingdom hall utilities or to help with the costs of hiring a stadium for the district conventions etc...and sometimes for kingdom hall quick build projects.. i feel so ripped off when i reflect on the amount of money the wt has inherited from deceased estates...and the amount of money and real estate they have hoarded over the years.

Mazza

Hi Beck, Well I'm really dumb at computers. Anything other than typing a message and posting is beyond my comprehension. So when I was setting up here for JW.com, I didn't think I could be Marilyn on a different email address - so went with a real Ozzie sounding name.

With regards the inheritence thingy, terafera is right. Granny ain't gonna catch on to how well off the WTS is any more than she is gonna catch on to what a pac o' poo it is.

My siblings (all dubs) would be really upset if my folks left their money to the WTS. In fact sometimes my father says he'd like to pretend that's what he's organised just to see the horrified looks on their faces. The fact is my siblings are so hard up that they are relying on their inheritence to get them to where they should have been 25 yrs ago. That's my way of saying they have so little already, that the bit they will get won't help much, but is better than nothing.

So how does your dubbie sister feel about granny and your mother donating all their worldly goods to the Tower? If you can get her working on the problem then you may stand a chance. You kinda need to show her those programs about tv evangelists who pass around the bucket (not the plate) - try to get her grey matter vaguely working again.

It's pretty sickening - I know that it's everyone's right to leave their money to whom they please, but I'd rather see your g'ma leave her doe to a cat home - where it might do some good, rather than the WTS, where it can only do harm.

M.