Posts by Mathetes

if baptism washes away your sins, as taught by jws, what prevents a disfellowshiped person who has moved to a new area and is not known in that area in attending meetings as an interested person and getting baptised within 6 months.. has anyone ever done that?

if so can the person be disfellowshipped a second time?

what would be his status.

Mathetes

Gumby wrote-

A wife would appreciate being told you are sorry for erring on each occation, rather than a one time apology......she is Human....she needs to know.

Do you think of God or Christ as someone who needs to be told you are sorry?

The Bible makes it clear that God has feelings, and they are affected by the behavior of people. For example:

Consequently Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time. And Jehovah felt regrets that he had made men in the earth, and he felt hurt at his heart. Genesis 6:5,6

Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me. Proverbs 27:11

In view of these scriptures showing that God does have feelings, I think it is most appropriate to apologize for wrongdoing and ask forgiveness. You assume that God does not need to be apologized to like a human would. What do you base that upon?

Gumby wrote-

but why ask for forgivness?

As I and Capbuster have both made clear, we are instructed to do so in the Lords Prayer. I have already explained why I feel this is reasonable.

Gumby wrote-

Religious folk other than witnesses DO ask for forgivness.

I never said that they didnt. Why do you bring this up?

Let me ask you: Do you pray to God? Do you consider yourself to have a relationship with him? Just curious.

41

A complex question who of you knows the answer?

by MARTINLEYSHON in

jw
friends

if baptism washes away your sins, as taught by jws, what prevents a disfellowshiped person who has moved to a new area and is not known in that area in attending meetings as an interested person and getting baptised within 6 months.. has anyone ever done that?

if so can the person be disfellowshipped a second time?

what would be his status.

Mathetes

Gumby,

I don't know much about your background, aside from what I've read in this thread, but it appears that you do not believe in the Bible (please correct me if I am wrong here). I could emphasize that this is a Biblical teaching with points like Matt 6:12 all day long, but if you don't believe in the Bible, its all irrelevant to you.

You mentioned in your previous post:

Thats like your dad giving you a bike, then everyday after that you keep asking him for a bike.

The way I see things, the need to receive forgiveness is an ongoing one, unlike a bike. If a person receives a bike as a gift, they have it to use for the rest of their lives (assuming it doesn't break, get stolen, etc). But a person who has been forgiven of their sins will sin again, because they are imperfect. So they ask for forgiveness of those new sins, and it is granted. I see it as an acknowledgement of error, and not ungratefully assuming things in my relationship with God.

I'm going to use an analogy that is admittedly less than perfect, but hopefully it will help. Let's assume that you are a married man. You tell your wife to consider right now that you are apologizing and asking her forgiveness up front for any time you might upset her in the future. So from this point on, she just has to forgive you for anything you might do, even though you will give no further acknowledgement of any error you make, no expressions of regret for hurting her, no request to forgive you. I think this arrangement would wear thin pretty quickly and would have to change.

Of course, God transcends the sometimes petty interactions between humans, but why would a Christian want to show any less consideration for His feelings than they would to their spouse?

Mathetes

41

A complex question who of you knows the answer?

by MARTINLEYSHON in

jw
friends

if baptism washes away your sins, as taught by jws, what prevents a disfellowshiped person who has moved to a new area and is not known in that area in attending meetings as an interested person and getting baptised within 6 months.. has anyone ever done that?

if so can the person be disfellowshipped a second time?

what would be his status.

Mathetes

Gumby wrote:

If Baptism washes away your sins, as taught by JWs....then why do they continually ask for the forgivness of their sins at the end of each prayer?????

If once you accept Christ and your sin's are forgiven at that point......why does anyone claiming to be Christian continually seek forgivness?

My Comments:

When I was a JW I never believed that baptism washed away sins. Their prayers for forgiveness are supported by the Bible. For instance, in the 'model prayer' Jesus taught:

"You, therefore, should pray thus- 'Our Father, who art in Heaven...forgive us our wrongdoings, as we have forgiven those who have wronged us'"

I don't think the Bible is so confusing on this point. Jesus' ransom provides for forgiveness of sins, but as imperfect humans we still do sin. So in humility, we ask for forgiveness, knowing that God will grant it. I think 1 John 1:8-10 explains it well:

"If we make the statement: "We have no sin," we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we make the statement: "We have not sinned," we are making him a liar, and his word is not in us."

As Christians, we have forgiveness of sins, but still need to recognise the fact that we still do sin. God's forgiveness is kind of like having money in the bank - its there, but you need to ask for it (withdraw it). This is assuming one hasn't committed the unforgivable sin.

*******************************

To Martin:

I know of a story related to what you're asking about. Hopefully it will help. Someone I know got baptised a couple years ago, but lied in order to get baptised. She told the elders that she was living a morally clean life, when she was really not. Shortly after her baptism, her boyfriend called the elders and blew the whistle on her. They checked with Brooklyn, since they didn't know what to do with her, and were told to revoke her baptism. It was as if it hadn't happened, and she was back to her unbaptised status. So if a DF'd person got re-baptised and was found out, I think they would probably just revoke the baptism, and the person would go back to their DF'd status.

19

I dont think I can take it anymore

by mamashel in

jw
friends

i have only posted a few times so far, and i dont want to sound like a constant complainer or whiner, but i really need someone to talk to and some feed back.

we used to go to the elders with problems, and i have turned and leaned on you all now.

first i would like to thank you all for your kind and caring feedback.. my daughter has broken my heart.

Mathetes

The best thing you can do for her at this point is give her a lesson in reality. Abide by your house rules GRACIOUSLY or get out. It is not reality for her to think that she can have sex out of marrige, without birth control, without difficult consequences. Also not reality that she and her boyfriend don't work, live rent free (I'm guessing) with their parents, and want the privledges of being grown up when they've taken on virtually none of the responsibilities of an adult.

People will treat you how you allow them to, and if you continue to allow this, she'll walk all over you for the rest of her life. You mentioned having 6 kids- are the other 5 younger and still at home? They're watching what goes on, and learning important lessons from it, whether good or bad. Your showing 'tough love' here just might save your other kids from going down the same path as your 17 year old.

I sympathize, and know how hard it is to get tough with my own kids. As a parent you love them so much, and want them to have every advantage. But Proverbs 29:21 is a good one to keep in mind: "If one is pampering one's servant from youth on, in his later life he will even become a thankless one."

Best wishes.

18

he who is sinless cast the first stone

by eisenstein in

jw
friends

does anyone know why the new world translation omits john 8:1-11?

john 8:1 - but jesus went to the mount of olives.

2- at daybreak, however, he again presented himself at the temple, and all the people began coming to him, and he sat down and began to teach them.

Mathetes

I've been reading The Bible From 26 Translations, to avoid any NWT bias, and it has a footnote stating that "John 7:53 - 8:11 is now recognized as not adequately supported by original manuscripts." So it's not just peculiar to the NWT. I'm sure I read this scripture more than once as a JW, but whether it was just in my private reading, or heard from the stage, I can't recall.