Posts by Chariklo

122

Judas and Unforgivable Sin

by corpusdei in

i'll be the first to admit that i haven't done the research on this one, and i can't remember the answer from my jw days - but there's something bothering me about the scenario of judas and his betrayal of jesus.. considering that the betrayal of jesus by judas was foretold in prophecy, it was essentially set in stone.

it was going to happen, it was an absolute because divine prophecy is correct.

judas had to betray jesus in order to fulfil prophecy.. now, i've always personally believed that a person does not sin by an act that they cannot avoid, but this seems like kind of the motherload of standing on the traintracks.

Chariklo

Charik: Yes, Jesus knew that Judas was going to betray him at the Supper because Judas was already heading down this path and it was in his heart to do so and Jesus knows present reality. This is different than saying Jesus knew it in His preexistence or even at the beginning of His ministry when He chose Judas as an apostle (He would not choose a betrayer or devil and call him an apostle after a night of prayer; Judas BECAME these things in a later chronology; as reality changed, Jesus knew this new disposition that did not exist initially; God/Jesus knows reality as it is and reality is contingent/changing moment by moment).

Godrulz, how can you feel comfortable while blithely stating what Jesus knows and doesn't know? By doing so you limit and diminish God. I was merely saying that we definitely know that he knew Judas would betray him. That's all.

I also agree with the original poster on this thread that there is a definite conundrum involved in Judas' betrayal having been the means to bring about Jesus' death. It has much wider implications, in respect of whether or not there is an overall purpose and how each one of us slots into it. It brings in free will and all sorts of things that don't belong in this thread. All I know is that the best thing we can do is do our best in our own corner and not seek to know exactly how, why and when the end, if there is one, will come.

Hear that, WT?

37

I had my first encounter with JW's at my door! I was called an apostate!

by Desert Rat in

jw
friends

so, i am getting ready to move across the state.

we bought a home there, and have taken a couple of loads over, with the main move being this next week.

i went over this last week cause i wanted to paint the kitchen and dining room before we moved in (a lot easier to do without grandkids and dogs under foot).. anyway... here i am painting away when there is a knock on the door.

Chariklo

Can an unbaptised publisher be an apostate? If I ask questions like that will I frighten them off so well that they'll all stop missing me so much and cease trying to get me back?

122

Judas and Unforgivable Sin

by corpusdei in

i'll be the first to admit that i haven't done the research on this one, and i can't remember the answer from my jw days - but there's something bothering me about the scenario of judas and his betrayal of jesus.. considering that the betrayal of jesus by judas was foretold in prophecy, it was essentially set in stone.

it was going to happen, it was an absolute because divine prophecy is correct.

judas had to betray jesus in order to fulfil prophecy.. now, i've always personally believed that a person does not sin by an act that they cannot avoid, but this seems like kind of the motherload of standing on the traintracks.

Chariklo

To clarify, I'm asking would it not be injust to judge and give someone with a good heart/motive the same punishment as someone with a bad motive who committed the same crime (who would have stolen the bread and not paid the owner back, and didn't even need it)?

Seems that way to me. Intent, motivation is what matters, isn't it? Maybe unless you're a JW.

23

LET'S PREDICT THE FUTURE.....

by Mary in

after reading the thread about remote viewing, let's make some predictions for the next 5 - 10 years and see how many we get right.

i'll start it off by predicting things that are no-brainers.

i predict that within the next 10 years:.

Chariklo

This is fun. I predict...

1. A volcano will erupt in Iceland. A volcano will erup in New Zealand. A volcano will erupt in the Pacific causing a tsunami (and that MUST be true because Mary also predicted it) and because of all three incredible coincidences the WT will announce that it definitely proves that the end times are almost, just about, ever so nearly, upon us, really and truly just around the corner, unless further new light brings new information.

2. A nation will get hold of the virus (or is it spore) bank of smallpox and use it to manufacture a biological weapon. Or anthrax. Or something. Or not.

3. A new island will emerge from the sea either off Iceland or in the Pacific.(Somewhere where it keeps happening anyway.)

4. Star Tiger is correct. Nbiru will hit earth on 21st December 2012, but invisibly, and it will be found to be where God has been living all this time. God examines all the world religions...invisibly...and pronounces absolutely everything within the bounds of acceptability with the one exception of the WT and that lot in Brooklyn. He secretly disfellowships the GB, invisibly. He smiles and tells everyone else to carry on having a good time, just be careful to play nicely though.

56

How to destroy the validity of your own mind.

by Terry in

jw
friends

the standard of what is true is what is real.. truth=reality.

at the point of contradiction.. with what?

it would be unthinkable for reality to contradict itself.. .

Chariklo

1914 was NOT Armageddon.

No active and believing JW in a Kingdom Hall today KNOWS or REALIZES or WILL ACKNOWLEDGE that the Society DID NOT predict ANYTHING TRUE

about 1914.

Absolutely correct, Terry.

This week I've had (separate) conversations with three nice, apparently very sincere JW's displaying in other areas above average intelligence, who are trying hard to bring me back so I can "live" ......and I've been trying and utterly failing to get them to see the tiniest chink in the WT's false reasoning and twisted teaching.

I don't see the tiniest hope of my succeeding, but I wish I could just make them think. They won't, of course.

122

Judas and Unforgivable Sin

by corpusdei in

i'll be the first to admit that i haven't done the research on this one, and i can't remember the answer from my jw days - but there's something bothering me about the scenario of judas and his betrayal of jesus.. considering that the betrayal of jesus by judas was foretold in prophecy, it was essentially set in stone.

it was going to happen, it was an absolute because divine prophecy is correct.

judas had to betray jesus in order to fulfil prophecy.. now, i've always personally believed that a person does not sin by an act that they cannot avoid, but this seems like kind of the motherload of standing on the traintracks.

Chariklo

Godrulz

Someone else could have become a betrayer with the generic verse being applied to them, Judas could have repented, or Judas could have not gone off track at all as God desired/intended.

The problem with that is that, unless, I am very much mistaken, Jesus himself made it clear that he knew who was going to betray him at the Last Supper.

can't leave

Unforgivable sin? Did Judas deny the GB?

Love it. Brilliant!

corpusdei

Now, I've always personally believed that a person does not sin by an act that they cannot avoid,

I think that is correct, or rather, pretty well what I've always understood, for what that's worth.

The Quiet One

The one sin explicitly mentioned as unforgivable in the Bible is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. So it'd be good to avoid.. if anybody knows what exactly that involves.

I have always understood that the unforgiveable sin is indeed against the Holy Spirit, and that it means deliberately, in full knowledge of God's Will to set oneself against it, absolutely knowing that one was setting oneself against the Holy Spirit. It would be blasphemy because it would be making oneself equal with God, by choosing to act against his will and purpose. I've always been taught that it must be so rare as to be close to impossible since, contrary to WT beliefs, we cannot possibly have full knowledge of God's will. His will is all-encompassing and necessarily infinitely beyond out comprehension because he is God.

I don't think I've given a very good explanation there but maybe it might help. It's hard to express because we're dealing in terms of almighty power and cosmic infinity, so very far beyond what our own minds can take in. I kind of feel I understand but it's all slippery stuff when it comes to putting it into words!

25

" ...but did you know that God has a name? A personal name?" Nine Billion of them.

by Duncan in

jw
friends

this post - and i warn you now, its a longish essay - is going to be all about names.

but to get started, a little quiz: - what do the following all have in common?.

mount fuji, the river avon, the sahara desert, lake niassa.. .

Chariklo

Very, very interesting. Thanks.

91

Why do Americans still dislike atheists?

by behemot in

jw
friends

by gregory paul and phil zuckerman (washington post).

long after blacks and jews have made great strides, and even as homosexuals gain respect, acceptance and new rights, there is still a group that lots of americans just dont like much: atheists.

those who dont believe in god are widely considered to be immoral, wicked and angry.

Chariklo

Nickolas,

No, to be honest, I can't, because I haven't read a lot of his writing, but I have heard him speak a lot and seen a lot of programmes featuring him in debate as well as watched a long film created by him (maybe 5 months or so ago) in which he did his best to prove that there is no God.

I have read articles written by him, both popular and academic, but not any of his books. He speaks frequently on radio and TV as well as guest lecturing in the UK.

My asserion is born as much from his manner of proclaiming his theories, almost, to me, like "preaching the truth", and, to me, and I think not only to me, as if hie is right and anyone who holds a contrary opinion is not only wrong but obtuse. It's not a stance I like much.

26

Why is the Society in England so scared of The Data Protection Act.

by truthseeker1969 in

jw
friends

the ibsa seems terrifed of this law and all that relates to it.. i have heard that if a subject access request is sent they have a "poop" moment and do all they can to destroy anything.. maybe blondie can shed some light on this as i have heard that they destroyed everything and that when asked they will use every tactic to hide what they can and even tell elders to ignore requests.. i am not sure what they most recent directive is on this in the uk but it seems they are terrified of being caught on this.. .

.

Chariklo

Scary stuff, compund complex.

So the JW's keep tabs on what they consider your misdeeds for ever, in their voluminous files.

The Catholic Church, on the other hand, considers that we are all sinners, and offers a sacrament of confession, after which everything is not only washed clean but what was spoken into the ears of the priest is lost and gone for ever, straight up to God, as it were.

Not much choice really, is there? not that you have to choose either, of course.

91

Why do Americans still dislike atheists?

by behemot in

jw
friends

by gregory paul and phil zuckerman (washington post).

long after blacks and jews have made great strides, and even as homosexuals gain respect, acceptance and new rights, there is still a group that lots of americans just dont like much: atheists.

those who dont believe in god are widely considered to be immoral, wicked and angry.

Chariklo

About Dawkins, I can see why he'd upset many a theist with his attitude and wordchoice at times. He's very outspoken.

Dawkins is rather an evangelical atheist. He tells people that something is so and doesn't allow the validity of an alternative point of view. He's a bit like Godrulz in many ways. (No insult intended to Godrulz).