Judas and Unforgivable Sin

corpusdei

I'll be the first to admit that I haven't done the research on this one, and I can't remember the answer from my JW days - but there's something bothering me about the scenario of Judas and his betrayal of Jesus.

Considering that the betrayal of Jesus by Judas was foretold in prophecy, it was essentially set in stone. It was going to happen, it was an absolute because Divine prophecy is correct. Judas had to betray Jesus in order to fulfil prophecy.

Now, I've always personally believed that a person does not sin by an act that they cannot avoid, but this seems like kind of the motherload of standing on the traintracks. If Judas doesn't betray Jesus, he invalidates Gods prophecy - if he does, he commits one of the most unforgivable sins in history.

Looking back on the account, a) In that moment, if Judas, through an excercise of free will, had chosen not to betray Jesus, would it have been necessary for Jehovah to have caused another close associate to commit the betrayal? Did free will come into play in that decision at all? and b) if the betrayal of Judas was prophesied, foretold, pre-decided, did he commit an unforgivable sin by being the instrument of that prophetic fulfilment?

charlie brown jr.

Well from my take of the Last Supper....

Judas was there... he partook.... so he should be in that Pact they all made...

Funny how Judas (a Man) screwed God's Son.... So many say he's Damned!! No chance of ANYTHING!

Satan (an Angel) screwed Mankind's Parents...... The Parents are Damned!! Satan Wins The Earth to Rule....

Sounds Fair to Me!!!!

oompa

good points corpus....i have felt the same way for a long time...has WT said as a fact that it was an unforgivable sin?...how could they??? what if god is way more forgiving than they thought?

charlie...did judas partake all of the meal?....has WT said he has not and why?...............................................oompa

MrFreeze

Jesus had to die to fulfill his purpose. Why should Judas be punished? Maybe Jesus knew one would have to betray him and he chose one of the 12 himself for that purpose.

charlie brown jr.

Everytime I picture Judas .....

I always think of Harvey Keitel......

Oh No looks like I'm going to Hell also my post is A SIGN

666

I have the mark of the beast...

moshe

Thinking about Bible paradoxes might cause a lot of sleepless nights-

AGuest

Greetings, dear Corpus, and peace to you! I would like to respond, if I may. Thank you! Here is what I received from my Lord:

a) In that moment, if Judas, through an excercise of free will, had chosen not to betray Jesus, would it have been necessary for Jehovah to have caused another close associate to commit the betrayal?

The Most Holy One of Israel did not cause Judas to betray my Lord. The prophecy never said WHO it was that would fulfill the act, but simply that the act would occur. Even my Lord didn't know it would be Judas. It was Judas who began to reveal that it would be him through his words and acts. The Most Holy One of Israel knew that ONE of those close to my Lord would betray him, one who shared his bread with him. If it hadn't turned out to be Judas, it would have turned out to be one of the others.

Did free will come into play in that decision at all?

Yes, it did. Judas could, at ANY time, have resisted the Adversary. He didn't. Had he done so, the Adversary would have simply moved on to another disciple... and another... and another... until he found one who allowed himself to be used. Given the rivalry/jealousy between and conduct of some of them, it really wouldn't have been that hard to find a willing "vessel." Keep in mind, Peter himself was on the brink ("Get behind me, Satan!" was said because Peter was allowing himself to be used to try and talk my Lord out of doing what he came to do). And probably was many times (he literally denied that he knew my Lord!). But apparently he wasn't the easiest target... or most predictable (the Adversary was on a mission and couldn't risk having it thwarted because the "vessel" was wishy-washy).

and b) if the betrayal of Judas was prophesied, foretold, pre-decided, did he commit an unforgivable sin by being the instrument of that prophetic fulfilment?

First, again, betrayal by JUDAS was not prophesied, foretold, OR pre-decided. That is a LIE and a false teaching. It was simply fore-KNOWN, so that it could be FORETOLD... that my Lord would BE betrayed by one close to him... which is not the same thing. The Most Holy One of Israel can state, with certainty, what WILL occur... because, within HIS timeframe, it has ALREADY occurred. Our FUTURE... is HIS PAST. An example would be ant, in comparison to us. We can see an ant travelling and state, with some certainty, what the end result of his journey will be. How? Because we can see its path... including any "obstacles" that exist. We can see that it "might" go this way... or "must" go that way. The ant, however, can't see that far ahead. Now, we can try to assist the ant by trying to help it "detour" to avoid the obstacle... but if it insists on staying its course... it will eventually reach the obstacle. We can also see its death... if it's by, say, a shoe or spray of Raid. Again, we can try to help it deviate so as to avoid what's coming, but if it insists on staying the path... or if the shoe/Raid follows IT, it will die. We can SEE this... because our vision... and lifespan... far outdistances that of an ant.

It is the same with the Most Holy One of Israel. Because HIS timeline is not limited to ours... He can see our "path"... individually and as a species... so as to know "what will come to be".

Second, to say that Judas' sin was "unforgivable" is premature... and judgmental. Judas repented (which is why he tried to hang himself); however, it is not ours to say that such is insufficient. Nor is it ours to say that his sin can't/won't be forgiven. And it is absolutely FALSE to say he won't be resurrected. Both he and Adham/Eve WILL be resurrected; however, whether it is to life... or to judgment... is unknown. Because the Most Holy One of Israel shows mercy to whomever HE wishes to show it. My Lord is recorded to have said, however:

"There will be resurrection... of the righteous... AND the UNrighteous: the righteous to LIFE... the UNrigtheous to judgment."

Neither Judas, Adham, nor Eve, therefore, have been judged. They must be resurrected, however, for that to occur. As a result, none of them have had their "nakedness" (sins) revealed before ALL... nor a determination as to whether their names are written in the Lamb's Book so as to have their sins blotted out. Mankind has to wait and see.

I hope this helps and, again, I bid you peace!

A slave of Christ,

SA

therevealer

within HIS timeframe, it has ALREADY occurred??? Wha?? That would mean that all that has and will occur has, in HIS timeframe. That means that HE already knows the outcome with Satan. Why then wait to deal with him??

ProdigalSon

Read the Gospel of Judas for the real behind-the-scenes narrative. Judas was a good guy acting out the part of the villain in an allegorical drama.

godrulz

Good question. Wrong assumptions lead to wrong conclusions. The rock opera Jesus Christ Superstar wrongly portrays Judas as a puppet damned from all time. A Calvinistic view would say that God predestined Judas to do this from eternity past (decree). An Arminian view would suggest simple foreknowledge had God knowing what Judas would freely do. An alternate view called Open Theism is a more coherent, biblical free will theism (www.opentheism.info).

Jesus choose Judas after a night of prayer to the Father. He was called an apostle and was part of Jesus' inner circle. Early in His ministry, Judas went off track and eventually was filled with Satan, became a betrayer, and a son of perdition/hell. This was not fatalistically fixed nor foreknown in eternity past or during his life. There was risk in choosing him, but he was not a puppet. He could have remained faithful or repented after going off track. The Old Testament does not prophesy him by name at all. Like other verses about Jesus that seem out of context, the Spirit applied some verses to Judas by way of illustration/parallel to an OT situation, NOT predictive prophecy like most assume (if it would have named Judas in prophecy, it might be a different matter). Jesus could have died without a betrayer or someone else would have the illustrative verse applied to them if they were the betrayer. If Judas would not have done this or repented, the New Testament (JW Christian Gk. Scriptures) would be recorded differently. God desired for Judas to remain an apostle and would have forgave him if he would have repented instead of showing remorse leading to suicide. Deterministic views are false and free will ones are true. I actually agree with WT view on God's omniscience even though it is a minority view and even considered heretical in Christian circles (though WT is wrong about omnipresence).

So, the Judas thing was not predictive prophecy nor set in stone (this would be unfair/unjust/unnecessary for a righteous God who can orchestrate without coercing). The problem is with the interpretation, not with the possibility that prophecy can be wrong (many prophecies are also conditional vs unconditional). So, you have a non sequitur to think that Judas had to fulfill this and it would make it wrong if he did not (e.g. a verse about Jesus in Egypt is applied illustratively because it parallels a historical situation, but it is not truly predictive prophecy). Judas is culpable for his choices and did not have to betray Christ (someone else could or no one could, so the verse would not have been applied to Judas after the fact if history unfolded differently).

So, there is a third alternative to your false dichotomy that assumes an unbiblical deterministic view. Someone else could have become a betrayer with the generic verse being applied to them, Judas could have repented, or Judas could have not gone off track at all as God desired/intended. The same is true with Christ's death. If soldier x did not kill him, soldier y could have (not settled before Christ was born, etc.). At some point, it was a point of no return for Judas, but this was not the case when he was first chosen to fulfill a positive vs negative role in history. God does not choose a devil, but he freely became one later on.

Judas and Unforgivable Sin

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