Posts by NewWay

10

WORD STUDY - 'Wicked'

by NewWay in

word study .

'wicked' - part 1

"if i say to a *wicked man, 'you shall die,' and you do not warn him - you do not speak to warn the *wicked man of his *wicked course in order to save his life - he, the *wicked man, shall die for his iniquity, but i will require a reckoning for his blood from you.

NewWay

WORD STUDIES

'Wicked' - Part 3

"When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen [Greek = 'georgos' = literally 'workers of the land']? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those *wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons." - Matthew 21:40 & 41 (Authorised Version)

* 'wicked':

GREEK - Strong's 2556 = KAKOS = "worthless", "depraved", "injurious".

Compare the use of the Greek word 'kakos' - marked with an asterisk (*) - in this New Testament extract:

"Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love for one another, a tender heart, and a humble mind. Do not repay *evil for *evil or abuse for abuse; but, on the contrary, repay with a blessing. It is for this that you were called - that you might inherit a blessing. For 'Those who desire life and desire to see good days, let them keep their tongues from *evil and their lips from speaking deceit; let them turn away from *evil and do good; let them seek peace and pursue it. For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do *evil.'" - 1 Peter 3:8-12 (New Revised Standard Version) (End)

50

Ray Franz has anyone read Crisi of Conscience?

by 67mustang in

i am interested in ray franz.

can anybody comment on him?

i've heard rumors, but partial ones from jw's.

NewWay

FROM CHAPTER 1 - "PRICE OF CONSCIENCE" (Page 1)
"Whether we like it or not, moral challenge affects each of us. It is one of life's bittersweet ingredients from which there is no successful escape. It has the power to enrich us or impoverish us, to determine the true quality of our relationships with those who know us. It all depends on our response to that challenge. The choice is ours - it is seldom an easy one.

"We have the option, of course, of surrounding our conscience with a sort of cocoon of complacency, passively "going along," shielding our inner feelings from whatever might disturb them. When issues arise, rather than take a stand we can in effect say, "I'll just sit this one out; others may be affected - even hurt - but I'm not." Some spend their whole life in a morally 'sitting' posture. But, when all is said and done, and when life finally draws near its close, it would seem that the one who can say, "At least I stood for something," must feel greater satisfaction than the one who rarely stood for anything.

"Sometimes we may wonder if people of deep conviction have become a vanishing race, something we read about in the past but see little of in the present. Most of us find it fairly easy to act in good conscience so long as the things at stake are minor. The more that is involved, the higher the cost, the harder it becomes to resolve questions of conscience, to make a moral judgment and accept its consequences. When the cost is very great we find ourselves at a moral crossroads situation, facing a genuine crisis in our lives.

"This book is about that kind of crisis, the way people are facing up to it and the effect on their lives."

['Crisis Of Conscience' by Ray Franz - ISBN: 0-914675-04-4]

(Edited to correct typos)

Edited by - NewWay on 23 July 2002 9:26:51

14

I'am shocked!

by kimmie in

i did'nt know so many people felt this why about jw's.

i just came across this site tonite.

i've been reading alot of the subjects and have a few questions here is one of them.

NewWay

Welcome ((((((((((Kim)))))))))) - that means a hug!

Despite what the WTS says, 'independent thinking' is a must for anyone who wishes to know the truth about anything. Funny how those who test their own religious organisations while studying with JWs are commended for their independent thinking! There are too many people/institutions, etc with vested interests that get in the way of truth. Just think if C.T. Russell wasn't an independent thinker then there would not have been the WTS (yes I know what a lot here are going to say!). History is full of people who relied on independent thinking in order to benefit humankind in some way.

23

WHY DO JW'S USE MORE OLD TESTAMENT THAN NEW?

by minimus in

jw
friends

every book that is published, every magazine written ,highlights the hebrew scriptures as opposed to the greek.do you think it's because most christians stress christ's words and jw's need to be different?

NewWay

I think RefinerFire more or less hit the nail on the head. That is why the society has always seemed to me more like an Old Testament Prophet pronouncing doom and gloom, rather than the apostolic model of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ and the superb qualities and revolutionary thinking that sets real Christians apart from those who have very little patience with promoting peace and obedience to God through love.

12

is the WTBTS the False Prophet??

by 67mustang in

.

i was wondering if anybody thinks the wtbts is possibly the "false prophet" of revelation???.

please comment.

NewWay

One thing is for sure: On the two occasions in the Bible where Jehovah chose to organised people as a body to serve him, he made sure that there was no doubt about the authority of those taking the lead. Both Moses (physical Israel) and Jesus Christ (spiritual Israel) were accompanied by supernatural signs that made their claims indisputable (compare Hebrews 2:4). That is why no Christian is under obligation to view any leaders of any religious organisation as sole appointed channels of communication from God. In view of this and failed predictions it is no wonder that many believe the name 'false prophet' is an apt name for the WTS. As the saying goes, "if the hat fits, wear it"! Personally I am of the opinion that if the reference in Revelation refers to our own time, then the WTS, along with other religious leaders/organisations could well be identified here.

10

WORD STUDY - 'Wicked'

by NewWay in

word study .

'wicked' - part 1

"if i say to a *wicked man, 'you shall die,' and you do not warn him - you do not speak to warn the *wicked man of his *wicked course in order to save his life - he, the *wicked man, shall die for his iniquity, but i will require a reckoning for his blood from you.

NewWay

WORD STUDIES

'Wicked' - Part 2

"Therefore, if you, although being *wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him?" - Matthew 7:11 (New World Translation)

* 'wicked':

GREEK - Strong's 4190 = PONEROS = "hurtful", "evil", "fig. calamitous", "diseased", "derelict, vicious, facinorous", "mischief, malice", "sinners".

Notice, however, these definitions from J. H. Thayer's 'Greek-English Lexicon Of The New Testament':

"1. full of labors, annoyances, hardships; a. pressed and harassed by labors; thus Hercules is called ponerotatos kai aristos, Hes, frag. 43, 5. b. bringing toils, annoyances, perils: (kairos, Sir. li. 12); hemera ponera, of a time full of peril to Christian faith and steadfastness, Eph. v. 16; vi. 13, (so in the plur. hemerai pon. Barn. ep. 2, 1); causing pain and trouble [A. V. grievous], helkos, Rev. xvi. 2. ... 2. ... b. in an ethical sense, evil, wicked, bad, etc. ["this use of the world is due to its association with the working (largely the servile) class; not that contempt for labor is thereby expressed, for such worlds as ergates, draster, and the like, do not take on this evil sense, which connected itself only with a word expressive of unintermitted toil and carrying no suggestion of results"...]; of persons: Mt. vii. 11; ..."

Compare the use of the Greek word 'poneros' in this New Testament extract:

"The good person brings good things out of a good treasure, and the evil [Greek = poneros] person brings evil things out of an evil treasure. I tell you, on the day of judgment you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." - Matthew 12:35-37 (New Revised Standard Version) (To be continued...)

50

Ray Franz has anyone read Crisi of Conscience?

by 67mustang in

i am interested in ray franz.

can anybody comment on him?

i've heard rumors, but partial ones from jw's.

NewWay

Outlaw, the post is on the first page of this thread.

50

Ray Franz has anyone read Crisi of Conscience?

by 67mustang in

i am interested in ray franz.

can anybody comment on him?

i've heard rumors, but partial ones from jw's.

NewWay

Outlaw, thanks for the welcome. I did explain briefly in another thread the reason for my return.

Kind regards.

"Blessed are the gentle: they shall have the earth as inheritance." "Blessed are the peacemakers: they shall be recognised as children of God." - Matthew 5:4 & 9 (NJB).

49

Is There a HELL ??

by 67mustang in

according to revelation 20:10 the devil will be tormented day and night forever and ever along with the "false prophet".

i asked several jw's about this and the reply was "we don't take it like that" or "it doesn't literally mean that".

wether or not there is a hell it sure seams they are missing or ignoring something.

NewWay

Hades "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither did his flesh see corruption." - Acts 2:31 - Authorised Version (AV).The New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) properly translates the word, which is rendered "hell" in the AV, as "hades"[1], while the New International Version (NIV) translates the word as "grave" - which is the basic meaning of the word. As observed by W E Vine (a well-known Greek scholar), the AV uses the word "hell" in some places where another word "ge'enna"[2] should be used. Thus, some people are confused as to what "hell" really means. Temporary death and eternal death In the New Testament (NT) scriptures there are two words used to describe two conditions of death. The first condition, called "hades" is a temporary death from which a resurrection is possible, and results from being a sinner as a descendant of Adam (Romans 6:23). The second condition, called "ge'enna" is an eternal death given to those whom God rejects by divine justice (Mark 9:47 & 48 - the original Greek word used here is "ge-enna"):

"For as the new heavens and the new earth I am making will endure before me, declares Yahweh, so will your race and your name endure. From New Moon to New Moon, from Sabbath to Sabbath, all humanity will come and bow in my presence, Yahweh says. And on their way out they will see the corpses of those who rebelled against me; for their worm will never die nor their fire be put out, and they will be held in horror by all humanity." - Isaiah 66:22 to 24 (NJB).

Often the word "ge'enna" is translated by some versions of the Bible as "hell" or "hell fire", but this can cause confusion if the same version translates "hades" as "hell." The use of terms like fire in conjunction with "ge-enna" are symbolic of total destruction, and have been used for illustrative purposes in the Bible (see Luke 16:14 to 31 where Jesus gives a parable to expose the greed of the Pharisees), with terms like "tormented day and night" (Revelation 20:10b) attached to show the utter hopelessness of ever being able to live again. God has never sanctioned torture, as it is not a thing that would even come up into his heart for consideration (compare Jeremiah 7:31b). He has always made death the final 'payment' for sin. In the book of Revelation the symbolic and permanent nature of the term "ge-enna" (where it is depicted as a "lake of fire") is described wherein even the intangible condition of temporary death (i.e. "hades" or "the grave") is thrown:

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." - Revelation 20:12 to 15 (NIV). Footnotes

1 "Hades" - Concerning this word as found in the Bible, Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old & New Testament Words (VINE'S - on page 518) remarks:

"The word is used four times in the Gospels, and always by the Lord, Matt. 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; it is used with reference to the soul of Christ, Acts 2:27, 31; Christ declares that He has the keys of it, Rev. 1:18; in Rev. 6:8 it is personified, with the signification of the temporary destiny of the doomed; it is to give up those who are therein, 20:13, and is to be cast into the lake of fire, ver.14."

2 "Ge'enna" - VINE'S comments on this word on page 542:

"GEENNA represents the Hebrew Ge-Hinnom (the valley of Tophet) and a corresponding Aramaic word; it is found twelve times in the N.T., eleven of which are in the Synoptists, in every instance as uttered by the Lord Himself."

The valley of Tophet(h) was a place where human sacrifices were made at one time, and became a place for unburied corpses (Jeremiah 7:30 to 33).

Copying/Printing/Distribution I'm happy for readers to make copies of this article in electronic/printed form as long as the whole article (including footnotes and any notices) is reproduced and not used as part of a commercial project. Web site address is http://www.semachiah.fsnet.co.uk

50

Ray Franz has anyone read Crisi of Conscience?

by 67mustang in

i am interested in ray franz.

can anybody comment on him?

i've heard rumors, but partial ones from jw's.

NewWay

Bleep, I shouldn't encourage such a thing, it might turn out to be a pandora's box of iconoclastic proportions!