as a bible based organization, how do feel jehovah's organization should be reformed?
the answer is quite simple in christendoms churches:.
1. reject false doctrines like the trinity and 'all christians go to heaven' and use of images in worship.. .
bartj, I think you are missing the point....Maze wants to be a JW, and has made it very clear that we are all hateful apostates to one extent or another.
Yeah I know , the post was more for lurkers.. I see that Maze is about as popular here as a pork chop in a bar mitzvah and with good reason from some of the postings I've seen. I don't know why Maze would frequent these boards other than to stir up trouble , she should be at topix!
as a bible based organization, how do feel jehovah's organization should be reformed?
the answer is quite simple in christendoms churches:.
1. reject false doctrines like the trinity and 'all christians go to heaven' and use of images in worship.. .
Couple a points Maze , asked them before but no answer.
1. The society's view on rape ? Why is it based on an obsolete law system and how can such a view on rape victims equate with what Jesus told his followers about love and mercy ?
2. Why isn't disfellowshipping practised according to the Bible and recognizing that not all who commit error are on the same level as those who act as the antichrist by denying Jesus actually was the messiah and did not come in the flesh. Sub point why don't they follow both the old and new testament pattern of holding public hearings ?
3. Changing prophecy only *after* it cannot possibly be fullfilled. Case in point 1914 and the generation , why is it changed only after that interprettation holds no hope of ever being fullfilled. Why don't the society apologise for incorrect (I'm being kind here) interprettation of Bible prophecy ?
4. Why not move to a faith rather than works model for salvation. And don't start with the show me your faith apart from works as the bible clearing shows that the works referred to are the fruitage of the spirit rather than any other type of activity which some think will gain them salvation..
Anyhoo just my 2cents.
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i know some have been posted before but, one of mine from way (way) back just popped in to my head for some reason and i thought i share.... when i was a young teenager my best jw friend and i were out in field service.
I was with a brother once who fancied himself with the ladies.. Anyway on this porch and out comes this stunning girl in a yellow bikini. My friend had the door and started to stammer while walking backwards until there was no more porch to walk backwards on ! straight of the edge , classic.
woke up next to my wonderful wife after getting up she make me a great breakfast and for dinner tonight grilled steak and a brithday cake she made.
so why am i depressed?
could it be my children will not call me today to wish me a happy brithday.
Glad to see you are getting some love from the boards.. It can be depressing at times to feel that you don't have their love ,even though you tell yourself its just a stupid birthday.. All the best for you and your wife. Happy Birthday !
"some times the lord has let his people look for the right thing as the wrong time, and more frequently they have looked for the wrong thing at the right time.
" and "...it will be the other fellow that will have to do the explaining, and not we.".
1. germs don't cause disease.. 2. aluminum cookware will poison you.
I am looking for an answer to this question to Maze on why God allowed a pagan church (according to your own posting of Will Durant) to collate what we know today as the Bible. Regarding the quote about Latin , what a croc... That was what was spoken at the time iirc .
Another question I have is why the WTS have consistently evaded apologising to those who they gave false promise too? I was in the troof before they replaced the mission of the Awake that God would bring the end of this system of things before the generation who saw the events of 1914 would pass away ..
Can you answer why the GB waited until all hope was lost on that prophecy to then bring new light ? You can not honestly tell me that this subject has not been the most studied subject by the WBTS.. Why did God not bring this new light prior to the generation being a hopelessly lost doctrine .. at least that would have shown they were being guided by Holy Spirit!
Also why does the GB not actually act like a FDS and solicit input from others of that SAME CLASS ?? There is absolutely no basis in scripture for one group of men making all doctrinal decisions. Even Fred Franz acknowledges this in one of his talks to Gilead students that Paul did not need the GB's permission to preach to the nations. It was God decision to do this not some bunch of men.. I think if they were humble , acknowledged their error WITHOUT blaming the R&F they would certainly receive more respect.
I won't even start on those lunatics telling people that if you are raped and don't scream you are guilty of sexual sin.. Based a law that has been surpassed by the law of Christ. Where is the mercy there Maze ??
harold camping.
2012. wtbs doomsday prophecy.
maze's ramblings.
I hope I am not repeating anything here but I think alot of what was written in the NT was written for those in the immediate time after Jesus death. If you look at the apostle John's writings, evidently he believed that Jesus return was so imminent that he said it was the "last hour" ..
I know there is some debate as to when Revelation was written another time where John held to the nearness of Jesus return. Some hold the view that it was written towards the end of the first century , others hold that it was written before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. To my mind (though still subject to change me thinks!) Revelation makes a lot more sense if it was written prior to Jerusalem's destruction. This also means to me that much of what was written has no implication for today. This I feel is big point since when I first became a JW as a teenager one of the things that absolutely scared the bejesus out of me was reading Revelation.. It's hard not be terrified reading Revelation as a literal prophecy as to what would happen to those on the earth!
Regarding the preaching work of the Kingdom , I think it was Paul or Peter who wrote that preaching work was accomplished in the first centur y( that is to the earth as they knew it) .
Also a comment on where you were born affecting your salvation. This was the first argument that really got me to see through the witnesses false reasonings. If God was really backing the Witnesses why wasn't there the same exponential growth that was experienced in countries with a Christian background ? I find it impossible to believe that there are so few "pure hearted" ones in the "pagan" lands . What i do believe though is that it is very difficult to prosteltyze to those who entire world view is alien to that of the Christian one.
Cheers!
hi everyone, i havent been here for a while but i do pop in and read whenever i can.
the economic downturn has left my jw husband with much less work which means hes home a lot, which means little jwn-time for me :( so many new ones here!
yay!
Hi GGG,
How long have you been cancer free for? I'm a mad cyclist and finally read that Lance Armstrong book "it's not about the bike". I knew all about the cycling side but very little about his battle with cancer. One thing that he struggled with was survivorship, you focus so much on getting through it all and then ... go back to living a "normal" life , scared of what the future might bring etc..
Have you checked out the livestrong org ? I think they have a lot of material dealing with this . It sounds like you have some many different issues. I'm new here but have been recently looking into religion in general , JW's in particular mainly because I think that having knowledge of their questionable claims has really helped me put their influence on my life in perspective.
The other thing I would suggest is trying to talk to your husband about some of your worries ( like your feelings of lonliness and desire for work) , he may just listen. All the best .
--the name of a real live (not dead) member of the faithful and discreet slave class- someone who has admitted in public they are one of the f&ds and who can verify they have been providing the "meat in due season" for the governing body.
obviously the gb can't be the f&ds, because they are neither discreet nor do they have a position of servitude- no, they have made it plain they are the bosses over jws and jws have to obey their words, as if jehovah and jesus were speaking them, or else they will get the disfellowshiped.
just one verifiable name will do and how you obtained it.. the governing body claims that the f&ds are directing them and the worldwide work of jws, but they have never proven that they have a f&ds class they communicate with- just have one of the annointed call bethel and ask to speak to one of the gb and see what the switchboard operator does with their call.
I think Raymond Franz's crisis of confidence discusses some of this. What's more interesting is that it seems that a lot of the "new light" actually comes from those in the writing department who do not necessarily claim to be one of the annointed. I think they use the reasoning that the first century Christians although all with the heavenly hope still had a "governing body" (complete load of hooey) and so it is today. I just wonder how they manage to wear all their hats at the same time! I meand they have more classes than college
i am new to this site, just finding my way around.. i've been studying with jw's for about 15 months.
i'm an unbaptised publisher, and until recently never missed a meeting, have been out "on the service" quite a lot.
i've been having difficulties with one of the jw's studying with me and something happened which was just unacceptable.
I haven't been a JW for a number of years but have taken an interest again in examining their beliefs compared to that of the Bibles. I have taken the opportunity to read opposing points of view (compared to JWs) and have found it an enlightening experience.
I have concrete convictions re the faithful and discreet slave and that how for most of their history JWs have been guided by only one or two men. If the witnesses really do have that class why are the many thousands who still claim to be of the annointed never listened to or asked for their input by the society ??
The other firm belief I have is regarding their inflexible legalism which closely mimicks those who they and Jesus denounced , the Pharisees.. It's only when you realise that the Pharisees were trying be righteous in God's eyes by doing the same thing as JW's (excessive cleaness by duties) with the same intent (that of serving God) that the similarity really crystallised for me. At other times I feel I am still working things out.
One postive thing I have found though is that reading only the Bible without the accompanying literature is the simplicity of the Gospel message,while I wouldn't call myself religious (yet??) I do appreciate the simple message of the Bible compared to the complicated reasoning by the WTBS.
I would say that if your former friends are true friends they will understand you and let you return. I still regret deeply rejecting many close friends when I found the "truth" , many of which have taken years to repair. I have a daughter who is 14 and is rapidly approaching the time when she will be pressured to have as little association with me as possible, even now at times I feel that she is uncomfortable spending time with a "worldly" family.
While you should make your own decision please do it with knowledge. I do encourage you to read Raymond Franz material and reflect particularly on the "time" that elders take to disfellowship people , particularly where ones have given a lifetime of service but at best have only received a few hours of "correction" .
