Posts by snare&racket

149

If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

snare&racket

No.... if you don't understand where you just went wrong, there is no point continuing. That was either dishonest or illogical.

On the off chance it was illogical....

I just asked why a soul is necessary for there to be consciousness within biology alone, and your answer is there is no soul in biology alone.

I hope you can see your flawed approach. You have started with the assumption of a soul, fine if you want to believe in one without evidence. But if you claim there is logic to believing in a soul because we are conscious....

well, then you have to answer the question...

for a 6th time....

WHAT IS MISSING? what does biology NOT DO, that you believe is required to make something conscious? You must believe a soul has a role (ta da). What is it? What do you think a soul does so as to assume we must have one?

I see NO ROLE in producing consciousness that out biology alone, does not produce.

Our biology can create this idea we have of consciousness.......WITHOUT the assumption of a soul.

your answer is.....well there is a soul....:P

7

"You should grow a beard if you're a man of God (slam)!!!"

by SonoftheTrinity in

if jehovah's witnesses are taught the "truth" that people are afraid of men with beards, wouldn't sending them the vibe that clean shaven men are creepy, as indeed they are in some localities on some faces be the best favor you could do them.

imagine if every trinitarian christian told them the same thing instead of engaging in a conversation with them.

in the part of california where i live them telling me that beards are threatening to some people is like those hipsters who attend the "no pants subway ride" on the subway in the middle of winter and then say that it just felt too warm today to be wearing pants.

snare&racket

Apparantly, the 8 window cleaners in Brooklyn (gods representatives) did not influence beards? Satan is at it again with the 'E' word....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27023992

Matt Dillahunty V Sye Ten debate, tonight in USA.

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

sorry, two threads.... also remember to look out for this debate as it hits the internet in the next few hours, it is going on right now in the usa.. http://recoveringfromreligion.org/refiningreason/.

.

please post links to the debate and thoughts here as two philosophical gladiators go into battle... .

snare&racket

Sorry, two threads...

Also remember to look out for this debate as it hits the internet in the next few hours, it is going on right now in the USA.

http://recoveringfromreligion.org/refiningreason/

Please post links to the debate and thoughts here as two philosophical gladiators go into battle...

17

After JWs inherit the earth...

by Zoos in

... will they destroy all great pieces of religious art?.

just finished watching monuments men.

great movie!

snare&racket

Go to bethel...... spend a month living by their rules for an idea of how it may be under big brothers government.

I had a music cd from the film the matrix, it was in a huge cd rack, it was picked out as one track was by marylin manson.

A housekeeper had 'happened' by it, tucked away in my cd rack.

149

If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

snare&racket

Why not ask a question instead of answering my question.

For the third time now.....

What is missing from input, processing and output...that you feel consciousness requires?

I see no missing element provided by biological, material means. I see no room or requirement for a soul or anything to meet the definition of conscious,

As for your question, as I have said several times, it is a theory, we have never designed a computer with that aim. No your dell is not conscious. No my ipad is not conscious.

No I made clear I do not believe there is a concept of 'levels' of consciousness so no my computer is not somewhat conscious or less conscious. It has not been built to replicate a conscious organism, it has been built to send emails and watch Froch beat Groves via live streaming. However as I said in my first reply, I do believe we would and could see A.I. soon... a 'conscious' technology.

Again seraphim, the fourth time, in the hope you answer it....

What is missing in INPUT, PROCESSING and OUTPUT, that we know the brain can achieve through physiology alone, that would require an outside source for or any source other than biological....to have 'consciousness'. Again, what is missing from the natural?

Self aware and aware of the external...we are...we can see we are alive, on a planet, with a finite existence and with dangers to our existence. We can see we are one of many animals, many of our own species. We survive, interact and procreate and ALL with biological means.

So a fifth time, this time with bold and highlighting.....

What is missing from the simple, materialistic.......input, processing and output....... to produce 'consciousness'?

31

Would blood mgmt improvements have been made without firm stand of JW's

by berrygerry in

http://o.canada.com/news/national/blood-transfusions.

thoughts?.

snare&racket

So I was certified for blood sampling and blood transfusing on friday.

Here was an interesting fact, that last data on incidents with blood for the UK is 2012, there were 6 people in the Uk given the wrong blood type in the whole country and none died.

There were a total of 9 deaths the whole of that year due to blood, 6 due to volume overload (heart failed and were given too much fluid...not the blood itself). Have a read yourselves...

Keep in mind there are 8000 transfusions A DAY in the uk....

Deaths n=9 (8 in 2011)

Transfusion-associated graft versus host disease (TA-GvHD) n=1 imputability 3 (none since 2000-2001) A fetus with anaemia related to maternal parvovirus received an intrauterine transfusion with maternal blood (non-irradiated, non-leucodepleted and HLA-related) and died from TA-GvHD three months after birth.

Unclassifiable complications of transfusion (UCT) n=1 imputability 2 (1 in 2011)

One patient died after receiving intravenous immunoglobulin (IVIg) that led to severe haemolysis and renal failure. An additional possible case of TRALI was reported in relation to IVIg contributing to morbidity.

Haemolytic transfusion reactions (HTR) n=1 imputability 2 (0 in 2011)

A man with myelodysplastic syndrome developed jaundice and died 8 days after a transfusion and was found to have anti-Jk a (undetectable before transfusion) that contributed to the death of an already sick man.

Transfusion-associated circulatory overload (TACO) n=6 (2 in 2011)

1 of these was ‘likely’ – imputability 2. This was a woman of low body weight transfused to a Hb of 176 g/L; 5 other deaths were classified as ‘possibly’ related to the transfusion – imputability 1.

47

For those who feel that their life has been stolen

by stillin in

jw
friends

you maintained a level of personal decency and integrity that you almost certainly would not have had if you had chosen another direction.. sure, you would have had some very "colorful" friends and experiences if you had gone another way, but you still chose the more "edgy" people in the congregation as your friends and you still enjoyed yourself, even if there were a lot of phony constraints.. you looked for ways to be of value to others.

don't stop doing that!.

you kept the darker side of your personality in check.

snare&racket

...we are the fish that got away.....

Thank Zeus then drink, be merry and marry.....

149

If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

snare&racket

But we have designed computers to send emails and watch porn, not replicate consciousness. Of course your dell is not 'conscious'.

Consciousness is a self awareness and awareness of beyond the self.

We could build a computer and give it input and ouput, such as cameras for visual input and speakers, robotic limbs for output. We could program it to process all the input, we could program it to mimic, we could program it for reward and punishments, just as we do with hormones, with reward being offered for,behaviour that promotes survival and punishment for anti social behaviour. We could program it to seek patterns and we could program it to seek acceptance from peers, which it could learn from facial expressions etc, etc, etc, etc, etc......

Once we turned it on..... it would function as we would.

To be conscious is to be nothing more than switched on, to be functioning.

What exactly would be missing from such a computer, that you would call consciousness?

We are nothing more than that computer as far as I can see. There is nothing missing between the hardware and software and to what you call consciousness.

149

If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

snare&racket

" Consciousness/awareness is something more than information itself I would say"

Based on what? Gut feeling?

How is it more than the sum of input and the processing of the input?

17

After JWs inherit the earth...

by Zoos in

... will they destroy all great pieces of religious art?.

just finished watching monuments men.

great movie!

snare&racket

I wonder what the world will do with Rolf's art?