Yeah, yeah you love us....
Are you drunk?
Wanna do some karaoke? Carelss whisper with plenty of echo?
snare&racket
JoinedPosts by snare&racket
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6
Thank you ALL!
by tresdecu inok, i've had a couple o drinks...started out as jack and coke, now have just had a shot of crown ;-) happy monday.. just want to say, i love this community!
it is such a great place to come to for support and to be able to vent every now and then.
it saves me the cost of therapy.. simon!
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76
The Jehovah's Witness religion has gone for good !!!
by snare&racket ini am not sure how you all feel as we all left at different times for different reasons.... but this new bible seems to have put some final nails into a coffin that was once my jw life.
the religion is so far and so different to the religion i grew up in that it has become something i feel no affiliation with anymore, no bond, no shared ideas or even sentimental views.
different teachings on when the end is coming.
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snare&racket
I am not sure how you all feel as we all left at different times for different reasons...
But this new bible seems to have put some final nails into a coffin that was once my JW life. The religion is so far and so different to the religion I grew up in that it has become something I feel no affiliation with anymore, no bond, no shared ideas or even sentimental views. It is so......different...
different teachings on when the end is coming
different teachings on its founding and Russel
different teachings on 1914 and the generation
different FDS
different financial harvesting method (stocks shares, hedge funds, property)
different headquaters
different governing body
different president
different videos and cartoons
different weekly meeting
different sunday talks
different magazines
different songs
and now a.......different bible
I only left around 2004/5 and I have never felt so disconnected as I do now from what is such a shambolic mess of doctrines and flavours that arrives about every ten years, probably based on new tombstones and resulting new management.
The more the waves of real life take me away from that crazy island , the more I forget what a weird, isolated and unique place it was to live for 20 years. The people I miss, when I meet them are people I no longer recognise or understand. People locked into an idea, a sale, their knuckles white from how hard they hold on to things that tommorow could be 'old light'. They just seem so desperate ...... Desperate in wanting their beliefs to be real, legitimate.
My main point really is...... I feel like this is my goodbye with the Watchtower Society, the stolen youth, the pioneering, the quick builds, the bethel work... It all seems like it has been underscored away, written off as a loss and I am ready to move on now.This new bible milarchy has given me a real sense of closure, the WT is on a pathway long deviated from my experience of it.
I left a religion that ......simply does not exist anymore!
It has evolved into a corporate, fundementalist movement I don't recognise or share any common ground with now and I think that is a positive thing.
So...
Goodbye the smell of the old books (creation, revelation, greatest man) on a late tuesday night crowded into someones front room. Goodbye brown money stubbs (alarm bells where were you?) from the 80's at district assemblies, goodbye pondering the age and health of people alive in 1914 as I left school, goodbye green battered old bible with several names of people in the cong that no longer attend in its front that you somehow owned, goodbye gold edged funny smelling or harback cold to hold NWT of the bible, goodbye watchtower cover art from the 80's and 90's that was super embarassing and all those cold mornings trying to pass off menopause/depression/death/pagan halloween magazines off to normal people, goodbye blood brochure from the 80's that oddly was titled how blood saves your life, goodbye reasoning book that only worked in sisters talks on a thursday night, goodbye dissapointment of seeing how long your side of the street was when arriving st the territory, goodbye the feeling of relief when the end of the street was reached, goodbye standing in the district assembly trying to figure out how only we could know something everyone else in the world could not, goodbye denouncing hard evidence and science with silly examples involving scrap yards or building houses or why we havent evolved wings, goodbye the feeling of fear/doubt/guilt because I would not face up to my own inner questions about the religion, the bible, mybeliefs, goodbye pretending that getting dunked in a luke warm pool made me feel different, goodbye wardrobe of countless dodgy ties and shirts, goodbye cheap plastic tract holders that split down the middle, goodbye coffee from a flask in the hall on a sunday afternoon before going on the ministry and returning home with a non specific feeling of time lost and wasted.....
Goodbye Jehovah's Witnesses .........hello JW.ORG, sorry but I am not interested thank you, have a nice day.....
Snare x
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What Will Be the Penalty For Using the Old New World Translation?
by LostGeneration inso who here wants to run an experiment?
if you still attend the meetings, are you willing to cling to the "old" new world translation?.
keep using it in front of all of the rest of the cultists.
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snare&racket
The punishment for using the old NWT?
The same as for using the New NWT!
IGNORANCE.
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Could the JW Library presentation have been a clever product placement ad?
by Island Man indo you think it's possible that the wtbts has/had an advertising contract with the technology giants whose gadgets serve as the platforms for the new jw library?
is it possible that the jw library presentation doubled as a clever product placement ad for those technology firms?
why would an organization that just a few years ago discouraged members from getting too caught up with modern technology now advertise an app in such a way that would entice members who don't have android phones, tablets, windows 8, etc, to go out and buy them so they can use jw library?
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snare&racket
Apple is standard buy secure stock, I would bet limbs that Watchtower money in hedge funds are in apple stock and android (google/htc/samsung)
They are not stupid.
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If there is a god..
by snare&racket innow we have to answer...... 1) is there more than one god?
how do you choose the most senior god?.
2) if you chose religious texts to make this desicion, how do you know they are not purposfully misleading by an ill willed god?.
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snare&racket
Thank you for your time Tec,
Been as only you have experienced your experiences and your choice of bible inteprtation is personal and your choice of which bible verses are true is based on personal standards....... is it fair to say you can't in any way communicate in any meaningful way with other humans about it? As someone well versed in the bible, in different beliefs, in science and physics and the etherial, I still have no anchors or groundings to underand what you describe. Also over time it seems your perspective has gathered pace on the wind in its shifting from place to place. Now you have sentences that dont even make sense to me in any way at all. Part of me thinks this pleases you, a unique and individual experience of your own and I would never mock that. But, you cant preach or teach or converse with others about it, you cant reason or question or research, in fact your comments here are nonsensical to anyone not .....you..... it is all personal to... you.
So, as much as I love your company :P x why do you join conversations like this? In honesty tec, you can offer nothing more but "I am right because I personally know I am right." I appreciate that it means much to you, but that sentiment is dangrous I am sure you agree, because we could all by that logic use that logic to remain wrong. It may not matter to you that someone else be wrong, but for some annoying reason I am here right now, because it maters to me..... A LOT. Once upon a time, that young boy with naeievety was stood looking at the world saying "i know I am right" and it took 15 years, a hell of a lot of pain and honesty and loss to recognise how wrong I was.
Nobody can converse or reason with that statement tec...so here is the big question, why do you attempt to use logic, reasoning, science, religious verses etc to explain away something that will only make sense to you? I have been here some years now and I have watched you do all of these and join in conversations of all types, determined to introduce your personal belief. I think you miss the barn door every time you do join such conversations, because they all tend to be humans asking 'what can you show me to help me learn x/y/z...' whether x/y/z be religious doctrine, atheism, evolution or personal life questions on marriage or love etc
Tec you are somewhat unique but not totally in repsonding with very personal, unexplainable belief and sometimes (no disrespect) non sensical talk, and when questioned further as to why you accept certain stances, so that we can understand them, you say such things as..
"my Lord has asked me why it would matter to you or to anyone what I accept or not"
SO WHY TALK TO US AT ALL ?
Surely you understand that to everyone else, we just see someone with a very inverted view of the universe. We can all share our evidence and reasoning and logic and explinations to why we do not think there is a god and further, why there is not specifically an islamic, jewish, christian etc god.Humans progress through communication and sharing ideas, we stand on the shoulders of giants who led the way before us and it works! It gives us enlightenment and medicines and science. It promotes the seeking of truth!
Now when you said...
"Because my Lord has asked me why it would matter to you" surely if it is the lord talking to you he would know why it would matter to me! Trust me tec it does, otherwise why would I ask? Now do you men literally you heard him say that or do you know of some verse that somehow will defend that statement? Because in all the 25 years learning the bible I never saw that concept or attitude in Jesus' words or it even being inferred. The Jesus of the bible promotes education of the unbelievers by telling them your experience so as to preach a good news and to declare that all putting faith in him will gain life.... now the Jesus talking to you has said hat explaining your stance and belief is of questionable interest to people like me. That is not the Jesus from the bible? So what invention of Jesus is it? Based on what?
I must continue this point, all the things you say Tec are very anti new testament/ OT or even the Quaran etc . What you explain is quite contrary to the techings of the bible and the quaran and of all religions I have ever researched yet oddly you refer to them. Either you are correct and they are all faulty or you are faulty and some or one of them are correct or you are both faulty. With the religions and religious texts I can test their statements as they clai to be truth and they are found to be flawed. You claim to have 'truths' and to follow 'truths' yet feel no need to explain why beyond it being personal to you.
This is ok, but again it is of no use to anyone but you, so answering my questions was pure vanity surely?
With that in mind and in addition to the very personal experiences and the voices you have mentioned hearing on several occasions. Is it possible that this whole perspective is unique to you because you alone are experiencing it and is it worth pondering if that is the case, why that is?
I sincerely think fondly of you tec, even if I do get frustrated here sometimes and I apologise for that, but in 20 years of preaching and 7 years of significant research and debate on religion and the bible, I have never met anyone like you Tec, however.. I have met people who describe expeiences and similiar perspectives as I read here with you, who have other reasons for such beliefs other than spirituality.
I sense a wearyness in you that i have not seen before, so I will not push you beyond this last post with you, I sense you are growing tired and apathetic to such...to be honest... legitimate and fair quetions from people.
Snare x
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If there is a god..
by snare&racket innow we have to answer...... 1) is there more than one god?
how do you choose the most senior god?.
2) if you chose religious texts to make this desicion, how do you know they are not purposfully misleading by an ill willed god?.
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snare&racket
You say you see truth in the teachings of jesus because they work in your life,,, so based on what you wrote in that thread Tec, you get your very own special questions....
1) With great respect, how many religious texts have you attempted to live by or have read fully?
2) IMPORTANT QUESTION: What are the specific teachings of jesus, that are **unique to jesus** do you feel are true? (judged by the effect of applying them)
3) Do you think any of the valuble teachings of jesus are found elsewhere in history?
4) Are there any teachings of jesus you reject?
5) if someone wrote a religious text and as they all do , gave instructions in how to live, what would a human inspired religious text look like?
-Would it all be false and all be non valuble in giving instruction on how to live? Would any of it work in one's life making it 'truth' by your standard? Would it all be truth? Would it contain core truths as you would expect from a human and some untruths represented by what the average human knew at the time of writing?
6) if you lived by the ethos of ghandi, buddah, mohammed or krishna would you not also find these 'truths' and some non truths? How? Why?
7) Do you think your personal compass for truth is sufficient? In that you are judging a human text and asking whether its words are beneficial to a human applying them in their life.... Of course a human, even 2000 years ago will say SOME things that will be beneficial for humans...
8) I aporeciate that this may be enough fo your belief, but can you see how for someone making desicions about god and religion based on evidence this would not suffice? If not why not?
9) Do you think it is legitimate to say because some teachings ascribed to jesus are true (such as do unto others etc...) that therefore jesus is the truth and his teachings are the truth?
I am interested in your thoughts tec,
He talked of forgivness and then of eternal destruction, he talked of love and of slavery, he talked of a light load and to the contrary picking up your cross/stake, giving up your belongings, family and life for him.. There are so many contradictions... He refers to adam and eve, the flood, the prophets, all with reprehensible acts of god attached, whether it being god drowning his children because they dissapointed him... Remember they were impregnanted by randy demons, hardly the humans fault..... Or jesus talking about david, the guy who murdered and sexed up his neighbours, with god deciding to kill the unborn child as punishment...how can this be ok with you tec?
I find jesus's words disapointing and discouraging and anti humanist... I really do, i find some of his words helpful such as the golden rule, however i long ago realised it was not unique to him at all... It is almost verbatim taken from older 'pagan' religious texts...
My point is, truth is inarguably truth by definition, how can we both have such opposing views on the teachings ascribed to jesus and yet one of us call them and use them as "the truth" ..... They would be universally true with no error and no debate if that was the case and they are not.
Thank you tec, I am sincerely interested in your answers...
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As the old NWT was known as Fred Franz's translation ...
by slimboyfat in... will the revised version become associated with the name geoffrey jackson?
no doubt it will be kept a "secret" who did the work on the new version, just as it was a "secret" who translated the original nwt.
nevertheless since fred franz was the only likely candidate who could have attempted a bible translation at bethel in 1950 his name will forever be associated with the translation.
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snare&racket
By the way, if interested in what scholars say of the translation check this out..... Notice how the WT changed the quotes, naughty people :P x
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As the old NWT was known as Fred Franz's translation ...
by slimboyfat in... will the revised version become associated with the name geoffrey jackson?
no doubt it will be kept a "secret" who did the work on the new version, just as it was a "secret" who translated the original nwt.
nevertheless since fred franz was the only likely candidate who could have attempted a bible translation at bethel in 1950 his name will forever be associated with the translation.
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snare&racket
Whoever it is remains a coward or terrible at translating, because much of the NWT is awful and bias.
A fresh set of eyes that has gone over it all and not pulled them up on so much so as to not even change one doctrine.....has to either be cowardly or inept.
IT's ironic that the NWT was considered the best scholarly bible by JW's and yet in 2013 it isn't . I think many JW's will ponder on the fact that their bible wasn't water tight all those years... their thought may not go further than that, but it will happen. I am sure for some it may be enough to help the wobble. It certainly wont help people to become JW's and it wont help people stay, so in all it is a win for people who want to see the cult stop hurting people.
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Why did they write a new bible?
by snare&racket inworks of unknown authorship70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work is made.
however, if the work is made available to the public during that time then copyright expires 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which it is first made publicly available.i wonder if this is the motive for a new bible?
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snare&racket
5go, what exactly was hard to read about it? Besides i think you will find it will read EXACTLY the same on monday but will have a few words changed to suit their teachings.
It still won't be Dan Brown, but it is getting nearer on every 'revision' of god's holy texts .....lol
I don't doubt they had some motive and it for sure wasnt the wild changes in english in the last 50years....that is less than one GENERATION ago... Lol
But copyright is a major issue for WT, think about it, they dont have any real products or produce.... Text is all they have, and copyright is all they have to protect the text.
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If there is a god..
by snare&racket innow we have to answer...... 1) is there more than one god?
how do you choose the most senior god?.
2) if you chose religious texts to make this desicion, how do you know they are not purposfully misleading by an ill willed god?.
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snare&racket
Tec
....you keep just repeating that you think the gospels and stories of Jesus are 'the truth' and so it is easy to answer my questions because you answer them based on what Jesus said or promoted.
You have jumped all the questions and missed the whole point of thread!!!
'if we say there is a god.....' Is my attempt at taking a step towards theists and having an open and honest conversation with people like you, beyond a question none of us can answer...is there a god? So if i take a step in your shoes and say there is.... then my questions are 100% legitimate.
But you have stepped in and with no sense of irony you want us all to just accept a tonne of more assumptions.... there is a god AND ..he is the hebrew god AND had a son jesus who came to earth AND what was written in the new testament about him is true AND he and those words equate to "truth" and by that I have chosen my religion and god and belief system...
go back a few steps.... Beyond 'if there is a god' how can you just assume the rest of those desicions you have made. They are HUGE steps on your belief system. How did you make them? How can you even start to talk about the bible and jesus with no appreciation for people asking politely how you got from 'god exists' to 'jesus is the truth' in one jump?
this is the whole point of the thread.... You answered my questions on religion with religious answers !!!!....and your justification was that your religious answers are 'the truth' and your god jesus is 'the truth' . What kind of evidence, reasoning or logic is that?
I wasn't expecting such an irrational answer tec..... on what basis do you say they are true????? A muslim could quite the quaran and call it truth!
Snare x
P.s. Please don't copy and paste every sentence broken down.. Simply answer how you can go from 'there is a god' to ...'i believe in jesus and he is the truth'