Posts by outsmartthesystem

70

If the WT dumped 1914 tommorow ...?

by faithfulslavedriver in

this is my first post here.

i've been a lurker for awhile but had no particular desire to join until the other day.. anyways, do you think that if wt decided to face the fact that 607-1914 is an indefensible pile of crap that has been artificially kept steaming for way too long, would it really kick off a mass exodus or anything?

in the short term the fds/gb might lose some authority, but they are hemorrhaging people anyways keeping it around (607 started me on the road to this place).. if wt stopped talking about 1914 for awhile then later killed it, blaming it on "further research" or something, and acknowledged some uncertainty in 607/587, i really doubt that very many of the r&f would think much about it.

outsmartthesystem

They will never, ever COMPLETELY dissolve the 1914 teaching as that would be impossible for them to explain. But they ARE slowly but surely moving away from focusing on it. Decades ago it dominated. I mean....the end was coming within the lifetime of those that saw 1914! But now that the "generations" are overlapping.....they are focusing less and less on it. Do yourself a favor. Search "1914" in the Watchtower and Awake magazines on the CD ROM from 1980-1989. Then again from 1990-1999. Then again from 2000-2009. As times goes by they are mentioning it less and less. In the future.......Instead of "proving" 1914 by going over the 2,520 years method over and over again........they will just simply make references to it. It will be mentioned as "christ coming to power in 1914"....or "with Christ's reign having already begun".....

They will mention it less and less in the coming years and when they do happen to mention it...... it will be a brief reference with no focus on "proving" anything. As such....over the years it will slowly be indoctrinated into the minds of the next generation of dubs.....without proof.....so that it just comes to be an accepted "historical fact".

I already see it at work in my wife. When challenged about the 607, 1914 and 1919 dates.....she cannot back up her claims. When I tell her that the very existence of her religion is dependant upon those dates she shrugs it off and says "that is the problem. You focus too much on the past and not enough on the present. What matters are the wonderful truths we have today". She simply cannot make the connection that without 607, 1914, and 1919 being spot on accurate.....whatever "wonderful truths" there are that exist today are built upon swamp land.

this is why the GB are harping SO much on OBEDIENCE to them these days. No more thinking allowed. Just believe

84

Kingdom Hall remodel - scam

by Dagney in

jw
friends

i was wondering from any here in the know, does it seem like there is a lot of "remodels" going on?.

in the last week i had the occasion to talk with two jw's in different halls, about 10 miles apart.

they both are undergoing major remodels.

outsmartthesystem

Yes....the society LOANS the money to each congregation WITH INTEREST in order to complete a remodel. But let's not forget that the same money that was loaned to US with interest from the society......was....years before.... RECEIVED as a DONATION by the society.....from US.

They are taking YOUR donations and then lending them back to you with interest.

25

is jws really growing or only natural increases from kids.?

by mP in

jw
friends

firstly yes we all know most jw bornins leave but a quarter give or take continue.

im going to argue that this is the only source of any increase.

those that leave are barely replaced if at all by new recruits in third world countries.

outsmartthesystem

"They count those who put in 15 minutes a month as publishers

They play with figures to give them what they want

In the future a 15 min publisher might be classed as a "pioneer" if they put in an hour."

This is right on. They will continue to lower their standards in order to get more to participate and to get the numbers up. Any lowering of standards will be branded as "jehovah's noticing that it is hard to make a living in this world and that time away from the drudgery of work and every day life is getting harder to come by.....therefore he lovingly instructed the GB to lower the requirements" All the sheeple will laud the GB for such a loving decision and it will be seen as "proof" that God's spirit is in action.

What is funny is that I could easily see them lowering the standard for a regular pioneer to 50 hours. And then all the witnesses will look at the RECORD number of pioneers and say "wow....Jehovah is really blessing his organization!".....while conveniently ignoring the fact that in a short 20 years...the requirements to qualify have gone from 90 hours down to 50 hours.

11

Two new experiences.....

by Momma-Tossed-Me in

all of you share your experiences about encountering jw's and i enjoy them so much....here are two that just happened over the weekend for your enjoyment.. so as you all may know last december i was officially labeled by the borg.

so now all jdubs must shun me who have known me since birth and thereafter.. i had a booth at a local festival this saturday and a jw was the chairman of this years deal.

so he is also a photog and he was going to each booth and taking a picture of it.. he did the one right beside me and then did a wide half circle to get to the next booth on the other side so as not to get to close to the new town apostate.

outsmartthesystem

"Just Ron and I went to the grocery store today. We saw a local dub and she actually stopped and talked to us briefly. She goes to a foreign language congregation in a town 40 miles away, so she may not know that we haven't attended a meeting in over 3 months. Her husband, also an active dub in the foreign language congo, stopped by the house yesterday and asked Just Ron to help him load some of the wood from the neighbor's tree that he was taking away. Of course Just ROn went out and helped, but it sure is puzzling that they don't seem to have gotten the memo that we are not active dubs anymore."

This is not uncommon. It all depends on where you live. In some areas.....inactive ones are treated as though they are practically disfellowshipped. In other areas....such as where I live....inactive ones are looked upon with pity by all. We are viewed as lost sheep and the congregation does its best to still reach out to such ones and include them in activities.

Strange though.....that with the formal reading of a name from a stage.....suddenly that inactive one is now treated as though he is the Devil himself.

27

Reality setting in for Jehovah's Witnesses?

by MrDarkKnight in

when my friends and family try to "reason" with me about my decision to leave, i immediatley begin to question the interpretation of the so-called prophecy in the bible, i am getting the following consistent response:.

"it does not matter if the end comes in my lifetime.

i know i am doing god's will.".

outsmartthesystem

YES YES YES

Just like the GB managed to unlink the "generation" teaching from 1914.........they are now in the process of unlinking "the end" from having as much relevance in our day. This process would not have worked 50 years ago because the entire point of becomming a witness was because the end was so near. Fast forward to today and they are still doing their best to keep witnesses on their toes (cause you know.....the end COULD still come at any time)......but it no longer holds teh SIGNIFICANCE it once did.

By focusing on "we have the truth......period" and "obey us implicitly".....they will spend the next 20 years making everyone's minds over. No longer will witnesses be "serving" with the view that the will survive armageddon..... (though it still could happen!!!!!!). They will be serving with the view that they have the truth and the only way to please God is to obey the GB.

the farther we get (in terms of years) away from their doomsday apocolyptic prophecies of the 20th century....the easier it will be for them to accomplish this.

39

thoughts

by isaacaustin in

throwing this out to the board for input.

my father will be giving his first public talk shortly.

i was shocked by the audacity to be asked to come to his public talk, being told i don't have to believe or come back but can simply come to show my support for him.

outsmartthesystem

I would flat out ask him....."dad.....if I became a pastor at the local Gethsemane Church......would you come to hear my first public address?"

When he says no....I would say "my conscience is just as strong as yours. I cannot bring myself to attend a false religious ceremony regardless of who may be doing the preaching"

20

I don't like "taking the lead"

by I Want to Believe in

some men probably got off on the power/ego trip being a male jw gets you, but i never cared for it.

i'm an introvert, and was an especially awkward one at that haveing been reaised in social isolation, so it was about the strangest feeling in the world when as a newly-baptized teenager (back in the day) i started to pioneer.

i was about as green as you could get in every way but i was told i had to take the lead in the service meetings and the car group.

outsmartthesystem

"We had a preteen who was baptized, so every time he was around, we had to wear random napkins on our head, usually McDonald's crumpled leftovers or tissues we had packed for runny noses"

And this is exactly why the WT interpretation of headship is a sham.

Listen sisters....if you come over to babysit this kid because he isn't old enough to stay alone....he MUST do what you tell him because you're the adult. But dammit.....when it comes to how you act within the spiritual paradise at the KH (for instance when meeting for service)........you'd better fall in line....zip your mouths and listen intently as his commanding, yet squeaky voice dictates the rest of your afternoon. And if for some reason he is unable to zealously lead the "large army", then you'd better cover your pathetic heads while you take the lead because it is SHAMEFUL for your head to be uncovered during a spiritual event that is happening in the midst of a kid who is barely old enough to no longer need a booster seat in the car, yet strangely, easily old enough to commit himself for life to an organization.

Somehow the quality to lead is determined.....not by age or ability....but by whether you have indoor or outdoor plumbing (metaphorically speaking)

I can't believe people still believe this shit

20

I don't like "taking the lead"

by I Want to Believe in

some men probably got off on the power/ego trip being a male jw gets you, but i never cared for it.

i'm an introvert, and was an especially awkward one at that haveing been reaised in social isolation, so it was about the strangest feeling in the world when as a newly-baptized teenager (back in the day) i started to pioneer.

i was about as green as you could get in every way but i was told i had to take the lead in the service meetings and the car group.

outsmartthesystem

"Oh, a funny experience. After conducting a book study when I was a timid teenager, I had a little kid come up to me, stick his middle finger in my face, and punch me in the nuts (pardon my French). "

That is priceless. I wish I could do that to a choice few "study" conducters I knew

23

JW Match getting kinda worldly ?

by ShirleyW in

below is from an email jw match sent me to get more involved on their site.

taking into account how the borg feels about dating (do they still want you to be chaperoned?

) i was kinda taken aback to see this.

outsmartthesystem

I wonder when they'll have the "witness man seeking transgender" option available?

37

For those of you who inactive, but not officially DFd/DAd, how do you manage?

by undercover in

jw
friends

i read with interest the thread about how people who are mentally out yet still attend (some) meetings manage to do continue to do it and it got me wondering, how do those of us who are completely inactive, no longer practicing members of the faith, manage to pull off our new ex-jw life, yet never invite scrutiny or investigation from former friends, elders, etc.. take me, for example.

i've been out several years now, but have never officially renounced my faith.

i've never out and out called it a crock of shit to anyone who could make real trouble for me.

outsmartthesystem

The elders just look at my with pity assuming that I am "spiritually sick" but too stupid to ask for help. The problem for me is that my wife still wants me to go to witness gatherings. I've been to one. It is person after person "inquiring" about my whereabouts. There's Brother Guilt Trip - "Hey....I was out in service yesterday and we saw a white dog. Remember the one that chased us down 5th street? I sure miss being in service with you." And of course Brother Dimentia "where have YOU been? You ain't gonna make it to the new system by skipping all the meetings!"

But for me the issue is all the governing body worship that goes on at these things. All the conversations turn to something they learned at teh last meeting (isn't everyone appreciative of Jehovah shedding that light for us? Everyone nods). Or people start relating field service experiences. The point being....I have nothing in common with these people anymore. But try explaining that to the wife! All she sees is me becoming a hermit. She doesn't understand why I wouldn't want to happily engage in a conversation about the past week's indoctrination session. My refusal to go to a get together and spend hours talking about the "spiritual paradise" is evidence enough that I am poisoned beyond all help