Eggster - "I'm not a nice person.....and I endeavor to live my life by God's standards"
Gotta love the hypocrisy of a JW! I see Eggster has clothed himself with the new personality. Keep those "standards" high, Egg!
as i recall in the 1980s talks and watchtower literature, magazines and books were always talking about the "generation" teaching and how it proved armageddon was going to come any day now.. but am i correct in thinking they have only actually mentioned the new "overlapping generations" teaching once or twice in the literature?
why are they so shy about talking about their great new interpretation?
it's almost enough to make you suspect they are a embarrassed about it.. mention it once or twice, don't dwell on it, hope everyone just accepts it, and don't bring it up again.
Eggster - "I'm not a nice person.....and I endeavor to live my life by God's standards"
Gotta love the hypocrisy of a JW! I see Eggster has clothed himself with the new personality. Keep those "standards" high, Egg!
as i recall in the 1980s talks and watchtower literature, magazines and books were always talking about the "generation" teaching and how it proved armageddon was going to come any day now.. but am i correct in thinking they have only actually mentioned the new "overlapping generations" teaching once or twice in the literature?
why are they so shy about talking about their great new interpretation?
it's almost enough to make you suspect they are a embarrassed about it.. mention it once or twice, don't dwell on it, hope everyone just accepts it, and don't bring it up again.
Eggster - "It really doesn't matter what "old timers" among Jehovah's Witnesses might have believed for several decades and might continue to believe today according to what may have been our previous understanding of the scriptures. What matters is what Jehovah's Witnesses believe today."
Yep. The society's exclusive right to call themselves God's channel of communication was born in 1919.....and was based upon the "fact" that Rutherford and his minions were the only group on earth that was serving the "proper food at the proper time". Yet somehow these wonderful "truths" that were taught in 1919 but no longer followed today because of their inaccuracies are....... irrelevant?
had 2 in my last congro.. 1 was trying sssooo hard to be an m.s we used to say he was brownoseing out (not reaching out) he would allways fall all over the c.o and hang around the elders like the bad smell he was.. another one was an m.s for years and brownoseing out to be an elder....him and his wife kissed every available arse,they used to make me sick when the c.o came around...he finaly made elder only to be removed 3 months latter.. .
karter..
There is a guy at my local hall that fits the mold perfectly. Literally shows up to each meeting 45 minutes early. Sits in the front row. Bobs and sways to the kingdom melodies while he sings off key and then after the final prayer makes eye contact with you and says "wasn't that SUCH a lovely song?"
i'd just stand at the door and not knock on it or ring it.
if someone came, i'd make a presentation - "here's your tract!".
otherwise i'd just wait a couple of minutes and then go to the next door and not knock.. .
I was both. Depended on my mood. If I was fealing zealous I'd engage people in conversation at McDonalds. If I was feeling shy I'd do the fake door knock and leave a magazine shoved in the door. After all.....it counts as a placement. I'd have 15 magazine placements that day! Yay me!
i seem to have trouble understanding how jw's think in regards to "false prophets" or "false prophecies".
i went toe to toe with my jw's brother who is a ministerial servant on the topic of false prophecies.
he just won't leave me alone.
Blacksheep's post of the Awake mag masthead change says it all. Is there really a difference between saying "God has told us that this system will pass away and the new world will be here before those that saw the events of 1914 pass away" and "this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away"? If so....I was unaware that the all loving all just God made exceptions for technicalities.
The July 15, 1998 Watchtower (p12) says "We also have 'the faithful and discreet slave' appointed by Jesus to provide spiritual "food at the proper time". Thus God is still speaking. But are we listening? For example, how do we respond to counsel about dress and grooming or choice of entertainment and music? Do we "listen", that is, pay attention to and obey what is being heard?" So are we to assume that "God is speaking" to us when we read an article written by the FDS......unless what we read proves to be false........and then I guess He really wasn't speaking to us in the first place?
And here is my personal favorite. Page 132 of the Reasoning Book says that false prophets are "individuals and organizations 1) proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that 2) do not originate with the true God and 3) are not in harmony with his revealed will". By having to stop teaching or "revise" so many of Russell and Rutherford's early teachings, the modern day Govering Body has proven that what Russell and Rutherford wrote and taught were false. Those two individuals 1) attributed their messages to a superhuman source (God), 2) none of their messages came true (the world's governments did not cease to exist in 1914. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were no resurrected in 1925) therefore those messages did not originate with God, and 3) the messages discussed could not have been in harmony with God's revealed will if they did not come true. According to their own definition in the Reasoning Bookthese men falsely prophesied!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
do you think there is any chance we can get 20571pnt428571......8675309....r2d2....10-4 over and out to quit bombarding the message boards with ridiculous apocolpytic fortune telling?
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I feel like I've been ambushed. I wish there was an elder I could go tell.
HA! Not really. I appreciate your comments.
In all seriousness.....I'd like to clarify something. Never did I mean to insinuate that former witnesses should strive to be united in thought and deed.....or even give the facade of unity. Though I now see how that could easily be interpreted. I was simply making the point that Rick's style is rather undesirable and could very easily have the opposite effect of its intent. I guess I would kind of liken Rick to Rush Limbaugh of the Republican party. Most Republicans seem to wish he would just shut up because of all the negative publicity he attracts to the party. Again,as former witnesses, we most certainly are NOT united in thought and deed about what we believe. We are not a religion. We are not a party. We enjoy our freedom from mind control and the necessity to "think alike" that mind control brings. That being said.....most of us LEFT the Watchtower due in part to its propensity to spread untruths and exaggerations.....and.....independently.....we strive to avoid such behavior.
The only area where we are united is that I'd say we all agree that we'd like to see ALL witnesses freed from the bonds of Watchtower mind control.
Take for example.....two current witnesses. Number 1 faded a long time ago and is sure that the Watchtower organization is not the truth. Number 2 is very much still in.....has just an inkling of doubt and is teetering on the edge of whether or not to view an "apostate" site. If number 1 goes to jwfacts site or freeminds.....he will likely confirm his beliefs. Likewise if he goes to Rick's site....he will also likely confirm his beliefs. On the flipside, if number two goes to jwfacts or freeminds he may be eased into doing more research. But if number 2 goes to Rick's site he may very well be scared right back to the KH due to Rick's fitting the mold of the Watchtower painted "apostate"
I don't at all preach that non-witnesses should be unified in teaching/beliefs/approaches taken. I just preach that we should try not to come across as weird or crazy.
quick background info i am an ubm, studied somewhat, never baptized.
mrs. bibyan is a successful fader her last kh attendance was the special talk after last years memorial.
no grief from the local congo for missing; the elderette she was friends with would call or stop by once in a while, but no harassment.. the other day, mrs. tells me out of the blue she wants to go to the memorial.
If you show up out of the blue to the KH for the memorial WITH NO SPECIAL INVITATION....you will be love bombed. Not a good idea
Also....it sounds like your wife faded for the wrong reasons. It sounds like she faded out of discontent or perhaps depression. Unless she faded due to the lies and hypocrisy of the Watchtower then I am afraid she is ripe to be lured back into the flock of mindless sheep. It won't take much. A major world event.....a natural disaster.....anything that can trigger the cult mindset to kick back in and the next think you know she'll be front and center at the KH again.
On the same token you don't want to viciously attack the organization right now either because it is CLEAR that she still feels they have SOME sort of truth or she wouldn't want to attend the memorial.
If I were you I would happen to trip upon maybe one more hot topic item. Maybe print the letter that Rutherford sent to Hitler and say in a disheartened tone "I just don't understand how God could tolerate such rhetoric from the leader of the organization let alone direct it." Maybe that will be all she needs to stay home. Beyond that....I wouldn't cause too much of a stink for fear that you'll come across as bitter and evil.....just like what the WT warns her about.
At least your wife will LISTEN to you. If I were you.....and all the above fails....then I'd go with her...but I'd print out ahead of time a good definition of "love bombing" and prime examples of when and how love bombing is used. I'd also make a list (perhaps) of names from the KH that had always been rather indifferent to your wife in times past......but that you suspect may be prime love bombers. On the way home from the memorial, when your wife mentions how nice everyone was......I'd hand both the list of names and the definition/examples of love bombing to your wife and say...."yeah it was nice that everyone was so happy to see you.....but....I've been doing some research on not just witnesses....but other high control groups as well. I knew this would happen. I knew they would "love bomb" you. I wasn't able to predict this because I am some blessed saint.......but because it is a standard action/reaction of any high control group when they see a new prospect or an older prospect that has been disengaged for a while. It isn't unique....but rather a telltale sign of a high control group at work."
If there is anything I've learned it is that this fight is like a boxing match. Only you're a light weight and the Watchtower is a heavy weight. You're ONLY chance at victory is to grind out a 12 round decision by jabbing and moving. Continue to ask pertinent questions and lay seeds. If you go for the knockout punch, you're the only one that will end up on the floor. The Watchtower cannot be knocked out. But it can be defeated.
so i've been reading the bible, (for the fist time ever and i was a born in) i stopped going iilike 3 years ago and i wanted to have a good understanding of the bible and not just the wt.
but holy crap that's some 18rated stuff!
i mean i'm still in genesis and it's all vengeance this, condemn that and genocide everything else!
Of course! At this point in my life I don't even know if I believe in God. I just finished watching a 3 part series by Stephen Hawking (Into the Universe). Yet I look at all the luck it took to get human life onto this planet and have trouble believing there wasn't SOME sort of plan. I just don't know.
But I am fairly confident that the Bible is NOT God's word. And if it was....how can anyone say the Hebrew and greek scriptures are at all cohesive? The Hebrew God was blood thirsty, jealous and petty. Whereas the God of the Greek scriptures forgives everything but denial of the holy spirit? Really?
The funny thing about Cain and Abel is that you'll hear witnesses talk today and they'll say "the reason why you see so many murders being reported today is that each generation is worse than the last. Each generation is that much further away from perfection". Really? Cain was supposedly ONE generation from perfection.....and he waxed his own brother!?!?!?! If you are one generation from perfection....shouldn't you be sinning in less egregious ways?
Regarding the divinity of the bible.....the best line any witness has is "well.....the bible has been around for almost 4,000 years. Any book that can make it that long and through all the turmoil (such as the dark ages) simply must be god's word." What about the Vedas (Hinduism)? It has been around for over 3,000 years. Does that prove that it too was preserved by God? Or is 3,000 years of preservation mere child's play while 4,000 years is absolutely divine?
i had an account on here sometime ago but forgot the login, but i often read the site.. a long-term friend of mine, a jw, asked me to go to his grandmothers jw funeral a few weeks ago.. i was hesitant obviously.
i haven't been to a kh in over 5 years.. i am not df/da.
i decided to quit in 2007 following my failed marriage to a jw.. the person who died was a very well-respected jw pioneer.
When my father died.....I was alllowed to speak from the platform at the KH about his life. But that was almost 10 years ago. I think this new funeral outline came out after that.
"Instead of eulogizing the deceased, use the material in this
outline to give a fine witness concerning the truth"
That line makes me want to throw up. Paying your last respects to the person has been replaced by a 30 minute Watchtower infomercial.
do you think there is any chance we can get 20571pnt428571......8675309....r2d2....10-4 over and out to quit bombarding the message boards with ridiculous apocolpytic fortune telling?
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Garyneal - it isn't so much hatred (at least from me) as it is frustration. The Watchtower paints all "apostates" to be crazed, lying lunatics that push anti-witness propaganda....when the truth of the matter....is that we are critical thinkers that have discovered the fraud that IS the Watchtower and we urge people to do their own honest research and decide for themselves whether or not the Watchtower is legit.
Unfortunately people like Rick give credence to the image that the Watchtower paints