my father, who has alzheimers, is dying now (he's 85).
i saw him today - he weaves in and out.
hasn't recognized me for a long time but was usually glad for the company.
My sincere condolences
but be prepared for your eventual discussions with witness relatives. they will "happily" tell you that he likely WILL be resurrected. being a witness is not required for resurrection. It is only required to survive "armageddon"
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"This is not a good situation, and it seems the Watchtower is a victim of its own success. Growth is occurring, and will continue to occur, in poor areas, adding to the Watchtower’s growing financial difficulties."
Paul, I've followed your statistical analysis very closely (not just this one) and still cannot thank you enough for all the work you've done. But there is still a question that nags at me. And that is.....growing financial difficulties or not......how much cash is the society sitting on? We know their revenues have been at least a Billion$ for a decade.....maybe two? For over a hundred years they've been very frugal. They've gotten 100 years worth of free labor out of tens if not hundreds of thousands of people. Do you think it is possible that they could be sitting in a cash pile that would even make our jaws drop? Do you think it is possible they could be sitting on $20billion? If so....invested at a safe 5%....they would be looking at a return of $1billion per year without even touching the principle. Now I know $20bil is a big number.....but it wouldn't even have to be that high. Suppose they have less of a stockpile......they notice the downward trent in cash flow......they sell off their Brooklyn properties......scale back staffing......kick all the expensive old missionaries and overseers to the curb........cut back on magazine production.....etc etc. Is it possible that they have enough $......stockpiled right now.......to survive indefinitely?
Take me for example. If you gave me $1million today, I would keep working. I would live off the $ I make from work and watch my stockpile (interest) grow. After 20 years at a safe 5% interest...my initial $1mil is now $2.6mil. But 20 years from now....suddenly I can't work. I lose all that income I had from working. But no worries. I scale back. I buy a cheaper car. I go on vacation 1x per year instead of 2x. I go out to eat less. Now I can live on the interest generated from my $2.6mil with no income from work and without ever touching the principle. I can survive indefinitely because of my big stockpile......even though future earnings aside from that stockpile have dried up.
http://settingtherecordstraight.wordpress.com/category/don-cameron-a-captive-of-misconcepts/.
witnesses, how can cameron assert that jehovahs witnesses only believe what a small governing body of men tell them when other religions have.
but yet, when jehovahs witnesses believe the same things cameron says it is only.
"The brainwashing is outstanding. These guys can commit murder and redefine death to be a superior state to that of the dead."
This is brilliant......and sadly the truth. Remember....the GB is never wrong. So long as they are allowed to redefine words and change predictions/interpretations to something else once the original has failed.......they can claim that they were never wrong. It boggles my mind that 7 million people can accept such a presentation.
The sad thing is that many moons ago I had a bible study that raised an interesting question. To tell you the truth I don't even recall what it was.....but I do know that he was calling out the Witnesses for having falsely prophesied. I looked it up (with the WT library of course). I asked an elder about it who assured me that "greater light" was released.....thus altering what was originally said. Boy was I relieved. I proudly reported back to my bible study that the Witnesses certainly did NOT falsely prophesy.
If other religions made predictions that didn't come true.....well....they were being led by Satan and they were false prophets. If they ever changed their tune.....I would point my finger and say "ha! waffling on their predictions! Proof they are not being directed by God". Yet when my own religion did the same thing....not only did I accept it.....I looked at it as PROOF they WERE being directed by God....because after all....."the light will get brighter." How they train the witness mind to accept such double standards is beyond amazing.
http://settingtherecordstraight.wordpress.com/category/don-cameron-a-captive-of-misconcepts/.
witnesses, how can cameron assert that jehovahs witnesses only believe what a small governing body of men tell them when other religions have.
but yet, when jehovahs witnesses believe the same things cameron says it is only.
DC - This is not just a little mistake. It’s a big mistake! For once people come to believe that Jesus made that Matthew 24:47 appointment in the spring of 1919, from that moment on they become captives of that belief—captives of the illusionary concept that all of God’s direction to mankind comes only through the Watchtower Society. It then dominates and controls the thinking of those who write the literature as well as the Witnesses who read it.
WT Apologist - To begin with, there’s no “illusionary concept” of any type. This is what Cameron is trying to sell the reader, that there really is some sort of mystical concept that holds downs the thought process of all Jehovah’s Witnesses. Where’s the proof, the documentation? Why should we take his word for it when he’s already proven to be deceitful, misleading, and intellectually dishonest? Furthermore, Cameron links this “concept” with the idea that “all of God’s direction to mankind comes only through the Watchtower Society.” Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe this. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe “God’s direction to mankind comes” through the 66 books of the Bible. The Watchtower Society is responsible for the dispensing of proper food at the proper time under the “direction” of the Bible, which God has lovingly provided for mankind in general.
OSTS - Do you really need proof? You really want documentation? "We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval." Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.24. How many Jehovah's Witnesses want to have God's approval? All of them? Therefore how many Jehovah's Witnesses must listen to the FDS (represented by the governing body)? "[A mature christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." Watchtower 2001 Aug 1 p.14 - Translation - God does not reveal the truth about the Bible to shmucks like you....he only does it through the faithful and discreet slave (represented by the governing body). Do you want to know the truth about the bible? Then ignore your own opinions and listen to the men in Brooklyn! "[Avoid] questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization" Watchtower 1983 Jan 15 p.22 Avoid Independent Thinking. The apologist goes on to say that JWs do NOT believe that all of God's direction to mankind comes only through the Watchtower Society....rather.......that God's direction comes through the Bible. Well.....that is untrue. JWs believe that God's direction does come throught the bible.....SO LONG AS SAID DIRECTION IS INTERPRETED FOR THEM BY THE LEADERS OF THE SOCIETY. Finally if Witnesses don't believe that God's direction comes only through the society then please explain this:
"Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah's organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God's holy spirit or active force. (Zech. 4:6) Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book."
http://settingtherecordstraight.wordpress.com/category/don-cameron-a-captive-of-misconcepts/.
witnesses, how can cameron assert that jehovahs witnesses only believe what a small governing body of men tell them when other religions have.
but yet, when jehovahs witnesses believe the same things cameron says it is only.
DC - One of the things that convinces Jehovah’s Witnesses that religious groups like the Branch Davidians and The People’s Temple did not have God’s backing is because the men who were their leaders demanded unquestioning trust and submission to their directions. Witnesses have no difficulty seeing that fact. But they are unable to see that they are doing the very same thing when they give their unquestioning trust and submission to “God’s organization.”
WT Apologist - As an ex-Jehovah’s Witness Cameron cannot truly say what “convinces Jehovah’s Witnesses that …the Branch Davidians and The People’s Temple did not have God’s backing.” I can assure you, it is not merely because “their leaders demanded unquestioning trust and submission to their directions.” Primarily, if their belief system wasn’t based on the Bible truths then it is obvious they didn’t have “God’s backing.” Secondly, they formed in the 1930’s and 50’s, meaning that they would have missed the ‘Parousia’ of Christ and therefore, couldn’t have even been inspected in 1918-9. They were not preaching the Good News of the Kingdom of God and were not feeding Christ’s other sheep. These points brought up are just some of the Biblical requirements showing who would have “God’s backing” and approval.
OSTS - As Terry already mentioned....this reasoning is purely based on already having accepted Watchtower Chronology! This is purely circular reasoning that takes for granted that Christ inspected the world's religions in 1919, that Christ returned invisibly in 1914 and that Jerusalem fell to Babylon in 607BC. First prove that Jerusalem fell in 607 and then maybe we can move on to your next point!
http://settingtherecordstraight.wordpress.com/category/don-cameron-a-captive-of-misconcepts/.
witnesses, how can cameron assert that jehovahs witnesses only believe what a small governing body of men tell them when other religions have.
but yet, when jehovahs witnesses believe the same things cameron says it is only.
Dammit
Ignore that last one. I am a little slow today
http://settingtherecordstraight.wordpress.com/category/don-cameron-a-captive-of-misconcepts/.
witnesses, how can cameron assert that jehovahs witnesses only believe what a small governing body of men tell them when other religions have.
but yet, when jehovahs witnesses believe the same things cameron says it is only.
DC - One of the things that convinces Jehovah’s Witnesses that religious groups like the Branch Davidians and The People’s Temple did not have God’s backing is because the men who were their leaders demanded unquestioning trust and submission to their directions. Witnesses have no difficulty seeing that fact. But they are unable to see that they are doing the very same thing when they give their unquestioning trust and submission to “God’s organization.”As an ex-Jehovah’s Witness Cameron cannot truly say what “convinces Jehovah’s Witnesses that …the Branch Davidians and The People’s Temple did not have God’s backing.” I can assure you, it is not merely because “their leaders demanded unquestioning trust and submission to their directions.” Primarily, if their belief system wasn’t based on the Bible truths then it is obvious they didn’t have “God’s backing.” Secondly, they formed in the 1930’s and 50’s, meaning that they would have missed the ‘Parousia’ of Christ and therefore, couldn’t have even been inspected in 1918-9. They were not preaching the Good News of the Kingdom of God and were not feeding Christ’s other sheep. These points brought up are just some of the Biblical requirements showing who would have “God’s backing” and approval.
http://settingtherecordstraight.wordpress.com/category/don-cameron-a-captive-of-misconcepts/.
witnesses, how can cameron assert that jehovahs witnesses only believe what a small governing body of men tell them when other religions have.
but yet, when jehovahs witnesses believe the same things cameron says it is only.
DC - Today the only way they can be loyal to “God’s organization” is to be loyal to the men of the Governing Body.
WT apologist - This is simply another untrue statement by Cameron. To be “loyal” to “God’s organization” you must be loyal to the Bible, the brethren, and to Jah and Christ’s will. Cameron tries to twist the teaching of the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” and manipulate it to a point, where he can get his reader to fall into his scheme, that is, the idea that Jehovah’s Witnesses beliefs are in the hands of a select few. The truth is the belief system of Jehovah’s Witnesses is based on the Bible and not on a “small governing body of men.” In fact, Cameron proves this when he wrote in chapter 3 about the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses and how the teachings were not unique to them:
OSTS - No....to be "loyal" to "God's Organization" you must be loyal to HOW THE GOVERNING BODY INTERPRETS AND TRANSLATES THE BIBLE. Because how they interpret and translate it is interlinked with the "bretheren", Jah and Christ's will. The belief system of Jehovah's Witnesses is not based on the bible. It is based on the bible AS UNDERSTOOD BY THE GOVERNING BODY. And then those teachings are relayed down to the rank and file witness.
DC - God’s name is not “God,” God is not a Trinity, Jesus is not God, the soul is not immortal, hell is not hot, the dead are not conscious, and the earth will not be destroyed. But there were others who taught these same things before and after 1919.
WT Apologist - There is a contradiction on Cameron’s part. First he says the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses are not necessarily unique to them and that others believed the “same things before and after 1919.” Then in this chapter (chapter 6) he says Jehovah’s Witnesses believe what “a small governing body of men” tells them to believe. If before 1976 there wasn’t a governing body(according to Cameron) but yet there were other religions who believed the “same things” as Jehovah’s Witnesses, how can Cameron assert that Jehovah’s Witnesses only believe what “a small governing body of men” tell them when other religions have the “same” beliefs? There is no doubt other religions that had similar beliefs to Jehovah’s Witnesses “before and after 1919” arrived at their own conclusions independently from the Watchtower Society. But yet, when Jehovah’s Witnesses believe the “same things” Cameron says it is only because the governing body is telling them to believe them. In simple terms: other religions believe the “same things” as Jehovah’s Witnesses because of their study from the Bible. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe these “same things” it is only because the governing body tells them too. Does anybody else see the hypocrisy and double standard set by Cameron? Not only is there discrepancies in his logic but there is also inconsistencies in his application of the same logic. Nothing short of a double standard.
OSTS - How is that a contradiction? The leader of an organization does not need his teachings to be completely unique in order to still have complete and udder control over what his followers believe. Now that North Korea has a new leader, Kim Jong Un, he will undoubtedly do SOME things differently than his father. The first indication is that he will resurrect nuclear talks. But that doesn't change his operation. North Korea will still operate as a military hard line controlling communist country. Most of his rulings will be exactly like his father's. Therefore you could say that he and his rule are not at all unique. (similar to JWs and Adventists for example). Yet don't all 26 million people under the NK regime listen to and believe him? Aren't they are under his mind control even though he is not unique in his approach? You don't have to have UNIQUE beliefs in order to be a controlling faction. When the apologist indicates that Cameron is saying "other religions believe the same things as Jehovah's Witnesses because of their study of from the Bible, but Jehovah's Witnesses believe these same things only because the governing body tells them to" he is guilty of misrepresenting Cameron. That is not at all what Cameron was saying. He was merely making the point that OTHER RELIGIONS BELIEVED THE SAME THINGS. He did not say that the other religions believed that way because they were guided by God....or because of their study of the bible. He was simply stating that the "ideas" of Russell and Rutherford were nothing more than regurgitated thoughts of people before them. And Cameron gives no indication that those people were any more guided by God than Russell and Rutherford. Yet that is what the WT apologist wants you to believe. Here, he inserts his own straw man argument. His argument is that Cameron is teaching that Witnesses believe what they are told to believe by the GB....but those that had the same beliefs before them believed because of their diligent study of the bible. And that THIS is a double standard by him. Well....IF that is what Cameron was teaching then perhaps it would be a double standard. But like I said....that is NOT what Cameron was saying. Unfortunately in order to try to discredit Don Cameron.....the Watchtower apologist must first misrepresent him.
if you want to skip to the new light or understanding, its underlined for you pleasure.
i think some will find this interesting.
we had the co tonight.
Unless you obey the governing body you will lose your life at armageddon
Did he literally say those exact words?
greetings.. http://www.jehovah.to/xlation/fp.html.
"do not interpretations belong to god?".
but as the saying goes; you can never satisfy a critic.. .
"spiritually rich"
In the same way that the people of North Korea believe they are the most privledged people on earth.
Very sad."
Good analogy. Sadly, I watched a documentary on NK with my wife. After it was over she commented how sad it is to see people toil needlessly for an oppressive regime that hides reality from its people. Of course she made no connection with her religion
