Posts by outsmartthesystem

73

Want honest answers

by independenthinker in

i've wanted to make this account for the past 2 weeks, but ive been afraid that ill get caught by posting.

do they check this site?.

im 18 years old,baptized at 14. really my problems started a few weeks ago.

outsmartthesystem

"i just dont know whos telling the truth :( ive been told this is all lies to take me away from jehovah, but what if they're lying?"

Independent Thinker - The best thing you can do is do research on things that YOU can prove. Research 587 BC vs 607 BC (when Jerusalem supposedly fell). There are a wealth of FACTS to be found. Research what Russell really taught pre 1914 vs what the society SAYS was taught. Read the book "The Finished Mystery" (written in 1917) and ask yourself "would Jesus really have approved this book as being "timely and accurate spiritual food" when He supposedly chose the Watchtower Society as his faithful and discreet slave in 1919? Do research on topics that YOU CAN PROVE.....not that come down to "he said this.....she said that.....so I don't know who to believe".

"why?"

Because the leaders of the organization have basically forced themselves to believe that in spite of facts......God chose them and is blessing them and them only. Even if it means quoting authorities out of context. Even if it means printing lies about the early days of the organization. Even if it means suppressing evidence. Somehow someway.....they convince themselves that it is all ok because this is what God wants. Once they are convinced that God chose them and them only as his one channel of communication.....then anything and everything they do is justified because God must have approved it.

73

Want honest answers

by independenthinker in

i've wanted to make this account for the past 2 weeks, but ive been afraid that ill get caught by posting.

do they check this site?.

im 18 years old,baptized at 14. really my problems started a few weeks ago.

outsmartthesystem

Welcome. Please be assured that we were all in your shoes at one point in time. The best analogy to your situation right now is that of the Matrix if you've ever seen it. You had the choice to take the red pill or the blue pill. The blue pill allows you to go back to life as it was. Accepting continually changine doctrine without so much as a question. Refusing to read anything no approved by your leaders. The read pill shows you just how deep the rabbit hole goes. You chose the red pill so fasten your seatbelt.

The Truman Show-like illusion of "truth" that the governing body has created for it's 7 plus million people is both impressive and sad. And you are exacty right. It is no wonder why the governing body doesn't want you reading anything not approved by them. If you listen to them....you continue to believe that they and they alone are directed by God and that you have "the truth". But when you dive in an investigate....you see it for what it really is.......a sham. It is no wonder why they demonize university educations......because you are taught HOW to analyze and HOW to think critically. Severing peoples' ability to think for themselves is what keeps them growing and relevant.

I started my search over 2 years ago. I was sick. Literally. The more I read the more I was in disbelief. How could I have been so blind. When I first read Crises of Conscience....I was terrified. Terrified that someone might somehow find out. Even holding such a book in my hands (on written by an "apostate" former Governing Body member) made me literally tremble at first. It is all about control and fear. Sever your ability to think critically. And keep you in fear.....fear of "the end". Fear of being disfellowshipped and losing all your friends and family. Fear of losing your relationship with God. For my first year of research....I was sure that witnesses did NOT have the truth.....but were just like any other religion. For the next year......I studied cults. What makes them tick. What their characteristics are. Etc. The watchtower society is a cult. I was nearly in denial when I came to this conclusion. I mean....how could I really be in a cult for 30+ years and not know it? That's the power of mind control

The most important advice I can give you is to take your time. PLEASE don't feel like you have to figure everything out overnight. It won't happen. I am more than 2 years into my fade from the witness scene and I am still not completely sure what I believe (in terms of God/Christ/Evolution/Life etc). But I do know that I am mentally free from the shackles of the Watchtower society and that in itself is a victory.

Take your time

20

If you faded or left the "truth" again, wd you do anything differently?

by soiledumpling in

jw
friends

outsmartthesystem

If I didn't have family to worry about....I'd sit down with the elders and my 130 pages of material on 607BC and ask question after question just to see them squirm. Yes....they would DF me but it would be worth it to watch them visibly struggle to shut off the critical thinking that my questions would ignite

25

Have you written any poetry? Want to share it?

by Lozhasleft in

jw
friends

its ages since we had a poetry thread...feel free to share your literary compositions here....... loz x.

outsmartthesystem

Gene, Gene....built a machine

Joe, Joe......made it go

Art, Art.....blew a fart and blew the whole damn thing apart.

33

My Experience

by wezz in

good day to everyone.

after reading and benefiting from the numerous experiences posted here, i thought it would be proper for me to share my story too.

i was born and brought up as an anglican church member.

outsmartthesystem

My heart goes out to you. I am in a similar situation only my wife hasn't turned me in. She won't......for a while anyway. My children are still very young. When they are old enough listen to sound reasoning and take it to heart.....it will only be a matter of time before they begin to echo some of my sentiments. THAT is when I fear my wife will turn to teh elders and the beginning of the end for us a family.

21

Indoctrinating the Grandchildren, Knowing the Parents Object.

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

in january, i posted this thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/220914/1/leaving-jw-tracts-at-the-funeral-visitation.

this is a continuation of the thread.

here's the opening post of that thread, so you don't have to relive the whole thing:.

outsmartthesystem

It will never change. JWs feel like they are saving lives......even by planting a seed in the brain of a little one. conversely, out of fear of being "blood guilty" they are afraid NOT to overstep their bounds. When witnesses go to sleep at night.....they don't fret about whether or not they over stepped their bounds or whether they were tactful or respectful. All they worry about is ........did they give a good witness when they had the opportunity? Remember.....no opportunity is a bad opportunity. If they are given the opportunity to speak and they don't do so.....that may have been the one and only "witness" that person was to receive in his/her life (even if it is a child). If they pass up on an oppurtunity to witness and that person dies at argmageddon.........then they may be blood guilty

The control/fear of this group is amazing

84

Kingdom Hall remodel - scam

by Dagney in

jw
friends

i was wondering from any here in the know, does it seem like there is a lot of "remodels" going on?.

in the last week i had the occasion to talk with two jw's in different halls, about 10 miles apart.

they both are undergoing major remodels.

outsmartthesystem

I have a question. When a KH undergoes a renovation......does the local congregation ALWAYS sign the deed over to the society?

Our local hall underwent a renovation 2 years ago. Does this mean that the society owns the KH?

84

Kingdom Hall remodel - scam

by Dagney in

jw
friends

i was wondering from any here in the know, does it seem like there is a lot of "remodels" going on?.

in the last week i had the occasion to talk with two jw's in different halls, about 10 miles apart.

they both are undergoing major remodels.

outsmartthesystem

"Not true. They stopped charging interest on loans about 6-7 years ago."

R U sure? I am not that far removed and I could swear I remember the elder going over the remodel costs and mentioning the "moderate" interest charged by the borg

70

If the WT dumped 1914 tommorow ...?

by faithfulslavedriver in

this is my first post here.

i've been a lurker for awhile but had no particular desire to join until the other day.. anyways, do you think that if wt decided to face the fact that 607-1914 is an indefensible pile of crap that has been artificially kept steaming for way too long, would it really kick off a mass exodus or anything?

in the short term the fds/gb might lose some authority, but they are hemorrhaging people anyways keeping it around (607 started me on the road to this place).. if wt stopped talking about 1914 for awhile then later killed it, blaming it on "further research" or something, and acknowledged some uncertainty in 607/587, i really doubt that very many of the r&f would think much about it.

outsmartthesystem

Oh yeah....welcome!

I also think LeavingWT made a good point. Ultimately even if the DID abandon the 1914 teaching....90% would still follow them. If you wonder why that would happen....read "Captives of a concept" by Don Cameron.

And don't be alarmed by Larsinger. I think he may be on a permanent crack high

70

If the WT dumped 1914 tommorow ...?

by faithfulslavedriver in

this is my first post here.

i've been a lurker for awhile but had no particular desire to join until the other day.. anyways, do you think that if wt decided to face the fact that 607-1914 is an indefensible pile of crap that has been artificially kept steaming for way too long, would it really kick off a mass exodus or anything?

in the short term the fds/gb might lose some authority, but they are hemorrhaging people anyways keeping it around (607 started me on the road to this place).. if wt stopped talking about 1914 for awhile then later killed it, blaming it on "further research" or something, and acknowledged some uncertainty in 607/587, i really doubt that very many of the r&f would think much about it.

outsmartthesystem

They will never, ever COMPLETELY dissolve the 1914 teaching as that would be impossible for them to explain. But they ARE slowly but surely moving away from focusing on it. Decades ago it dominated. I mean....the end was coming within the lifetime of those that saw 1914! But now that the "generations" are overlapping.....they are focusing less and less on it. Do yourself a favor. Search "1914" in the Watchtower and Awake magazines on the CD ROM from 1980-1989. Then again from 1990-1999. Then again from 2000-2009. As times goes by they are mentioning it less and less. In the future.......Instead of "proving" 1914 by going over the 2,520 years method over and over again........they will just simply make references to it. It will be mentioned as "christ coming to power in 1914"....or "with Christ's reign having already begun".....

They will mention it less and less in the coming years and when they do happen to mention it...... it will be a brief reference with no focus on "proving" anything. As such....over the years it will slowly be indoctrinated into the minds of the next generation of dubs.....without proof.....so that it just comes to be an accepted "historical fact".

I already see it at work in my wife. When challenged about the 607, 1914 and 1919 dates.....she cannot back up her claims. When I tell her that the very existence of her religion is dependant upon those dates she shrugs it off and says "that is the problem. You focus too much on the past and not enough on the present. What matters are the wonderful truths we have today". She simply cannot make the connection that without 607, 1914, and 1919 being spot on accurate.....whatever "wonderful truths" there are that exist today are built upon swamp land.

this is why the GB are harping SO much on OBEDIENCE to them these days. No more thinking allowed. Just believe