i do not wish in any way to judge your actions. from a purely clinical standpoint this is the ultimatium your boyfriend is faced with. if he does not leave you immediately and move out he will be disfellowshipped for being non-repentant. the only chance he has to stay a witness without being shunned is to move out. this is what he is no doubt grapeling with. it has now come down to wt or you. if he is df he will still be required to leave or marry you to ever be considered for reinstatement. he no doubt is in a great amount of turmoil internally, i hope he makes the right decision.
messenger
messenger
JoinedPosts by messenger
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JW Boyfriend is being brainwashed !
by Camay inmy boyfriend and i live together and have been for about 3 years.. he wants me to convert, after research i will not.
(i was raised bapstist) he hasnt went to the hall in two weeks, last nite he went because a "elder" called him, why did they have him in a meeting till.
11 at nite, he came home and told me he confessed and he is in trouble.
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Is WT God On Earth?
by messenger inthe wt claims to represent god on earth.
in the event you say anything against them, they state that you are speaking against god.
the written review this week had one answer that stated, "apostates speak publicly against god's people.".
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messenger
The WT claims to represent God on earth. In the event you say anything against them, they state that you are speaking against God. The written review this week had one answer that stated, "apostates speak publicly against God's people."
In the Bible how does God feel about those who claim to be Him on earth?
read Eze 28:2-9,
‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said:
For the reason that your heart has become haughty, and you keep saying, ‘I am a god. In the seat of god I have seated myself, in the heart of the open sea,’ whereas an earthling man is what you are, and not a god, and you keep making your heart like the heart of god— 3 look! you are wiser than Daniel. There are no secrets that have proved a match for you. 4 By your wisdom and by your discernment you have made wealth for your own self, and you keep getting gold and silver in your storehouses. 5 By the abundance of your wisdom, by your sales goods, you have made your wealth abound, and your heart began to be haughty because of your wealth.”’
6 Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: “For the reason that you make your heart like the heart of god, 7 therefore here I am bringing upon you strangers, the tyrants of [the] nations, and they will certainly draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom and profane your beaming splendor. 8 Down to the pit they will bring you, and you must die the death of someone slain in the heart of the open sea. 9 Will you without fail say, ‘I am god,’ before the one killing you, whereas you are a mere earthling man, and not a god, in the hand of those profaning you?”’
UH-OH I think you are in trouble WT........ -
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District Convention Instructions
by messenger inthis is from the may km regarding district convention instruction.
it is posted for your amusement and comments....... concentrating for several hours at a time can be a challenge, what can help us to resist the tendency to drift mentality?
take advantage of the power of the eye.
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messenger
This is from the May KM regarding district convention instruction. it is posted for your amusement and comments......
Concentrating for several hours at a time can be a challenge, What can help us to resist the tendency to drift mentality? Take advantage of the power of the eye. To a large extent, what we focus our eyes on commands our attention. (matt. 6:22)Therefore, resist the urge to turn your head at every noise or movement. Keep your eyes focused on the speaker. Follow along in your copy of the Bible when a scripture is read, and keep your bible open as the text is discussed.
Be on the look out for the head turning, closed Bible apostates at your next convention...........
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New District Convention Program
by messenger inwatchtower convention.
2001 teachers of gods word district convention theocratic simplification.
this year in response to increasing light it has been decided to simplify the convention arrangement for the benefit of the other sheep and further the use of dedicated funds for the glorious spreading of the good news of gods kingdom.
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messenger
WATCHTOWER CONVENTION
2001 “Teachers Of God’s Word” District Convention Theocratic Simplification
This year in response to increasing light it has been decided to simplify the convention arrangement for the benefit of the “other sheep” and further the use of dedicated funds for the glorious spreading of the “Good News” of God’s Kingdom. We would like to provide more details as to how this new convention arrangement will work.
The “Faithful and Discreet Slave” who have the greatest importance of anything on earth as we know it, have revealed through increased light something new must be done to keep them from having to expend themselves in extensive travel and causing them to be tired. As a result our heavenly Father has revealed a new arrangement that will benefit all concerned with much needed “spiritual food at the proper time”.
We will no longer meet in large crowded stadiums and arenas. Each family instead will be provided a “convention packet” with a program card that must be followed closely in order to have Jehovah’s blessing. The tremendously humble “Faithful and Discreet Slave” feel this “theocratic simplification” will save countless hours arranging such things as securing convention locations, rooming accommodations and travel.
A written special program card will be provided to each family head to be considered with their family on the specific days allotted for the convention in your area. Again there must be no deviation as to how the program is followed so your spiritual food will have the most nourishing effect.
The program is as follows:
Friday Saturday Sunday
Song 122 and prayer/song 123 and prayer/song 124 and prayer
Read Mt 28:19,20/ Read Mt 28:19,20/ Read Mt 28:19,20
Ten times with emphasis/same/ ten times with emphasis
Read John 17:3/ John 17:3/ John 17:3
25 times with emphasis/same/ sameLunch Lunch Lunch
Read Ps 83:18/ Read Ps 83:18/ Read Ps 83:18
25 times with emphasis/same same
Read three chapters/Release new book/ Drama*
Isaiah book four times/“Pay Attention to Amos Prophecy”/
Ps 37: 10,11/ Ps 37:10,11/ Tell service stories
Read 40 times/ same/ for two hours
Say preach or die/ say preach or die/ say preach or die
4000 times/ same same
Read Mt 28:19,20/ read Mt 28:19,20/ read Mt 28:19,20
25 times same same
Song and 10 minute/ song and 15 minute/ song and 30 minute
Prayer prayer prayer*Drama will consist of three broom handles with sheets over them which will be stood up in front of the family while Re. 21:4 is read 35 times with ten "preach or die" at the end.
Food: Food should limited to dried fruit and nuts along with warm Shasta cola. Remember no snacking during the program, this would show disrespect for “theocratic arrangement”.New Publications: Any new publication released will be included in your special “convention packet”. These are hermetically sealed in dark plastic envelopes that elders will check in each congregation to make sure they were not opened before release time. In the event an envelope were to be opened sooner than the assigned time it will be considered “loose conduct” at which elders will take appropriate action to determine “works of repentance”. When released, the new publication may be looked at but not touched until after the program is over with. After the program you may then travel to your local Kingdom Hall and stand in line to get your copy, one for each member of the family.
Song and Prayer: As this is the most important portion of the program, everyone is required to sing using the tapes or cd for accompaniment. The length of prayers must be observed to show respect for “theocratic arrangement”. A qualified brother must say the prayer or if not available a sister with a head covering will suffice. Each prayer will include a special blessing to be asked for the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” as well as at least four “preach or dies” inserted at the proper time.
A Timely Provision For Youths: Most youths find that District Conventions offer them the opportunity to acquaint themselves with prospective partners in life. Therefore, the “Program Packet” will include the name and telephone numbers of available youths in “good standing” in your convention areas. Youths are only allowed telephoning these numbers during lunch break and after the program is concluded for the evening. Any youth found calling during the convention will be taken off the “good standing” list.
Contributions For Worldwide Work: We ask that each day a special donation be set aside in a box dedicated for Kingdom Work. These funds are to be collected at the end of each day by local elders after the program has concluded. In the event there are no funds in the Kingdom Work box, elders are asked to meet and offer counsel as why individuals have chosen to no longer love Jehovah.
We are assured that this “theocratic simplification” will result in a convention that is not only more convenient for all to attend, but will also lead to undistracted concentration on the delightsome program the unpresumptuous glorious ones known as the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” who humbly serve the interests of the “other sheep” in their efforts to represent god’s greatest gift to mankind, namely themselves.
Your brothers,
Watchtower Convention Headquarters -
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Yes it is not only presumptuous but arrogant....
by messenger inis it presumptuous of jehovahs witnesses to point out that they alone have gods backing?
wt 6/1/01 pg 16. .
is it just me or is this question one that causes histerical laughter to anyone outside the organization?.
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messenger
Is it presumptuous of Jehovah’s Witnesses to point out that they alone have God’s backing? wt 6/1/01 pg 16
is it just me or is this question one that causes histerical laughter to anyone outside the organization?
would i be considered arrogant if i said i was the humblest person on the face of the earth?
would i be considered stupid if i said i was the smartest person in the world?
would the color black really be the color white if you thought it was?
this could never end, maybe i am finally gettting the hang of it, i can now write for the wt.
messenger
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Keeping Hank Happy
by messenger ini'm john, and this is mary.
he can do whatever he wants, and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass.
kiss hank's ass and he'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
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messenger
i can not take the credit for thinking this up you can find it at www.jhuger.com along with other stories.
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Keeping Hank Happy
by messenger ini'm john, and this is mary.
he can do whatever he wants, and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass.
kiss hank's ass and he'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
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messenger
This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:
John:
"Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."
Mary:
Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me:
"Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"
John:
"If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the shit out of you."
Me:
"What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"
John:
"Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever he wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss his ass."
Me:
"That doesn't make any sense. Why..."
Mary:
"Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"
Me:
"Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."
John:
"Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me:
"Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"
Mary:
"Oh yes, all the time..."
Me:
"And has He given you a million dollars?"
John:
"Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."
Me:
"So why don't you just leave town now?"
Mary:
"You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the shit out of you."
Me:
"Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"
John:
"My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."
Me:
"Haven't you talked to her since then?"
John:
"Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."
Me:
"So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"
Mary:
"Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."
Me:
"What's that got to do with Hank?"
John:
"Hank has certain 'connections.'"
Me:
"I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."
John:
"But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the shit of you."
Me:
"Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from him..."
Mary:
"No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."
Me:
"Then how do you kiss His ass?"
John:
"Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."
Me:
"Who's Karl?"
Mary:
"A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."
Me:
"And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"
John:
"Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."From the desk of Karl
Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
Use alcohol in moderation.
Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
Eat right.
Hank dictated this list Himself.
The moon is made of green cheese.
Everything Hank says is right.
Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
Don't use alcohol.
Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the shit out of you.
Me:
"This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."
Mary:
"Hank didn't have any paper."
Me:
"I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."
John:
"Of course, Hank dictated it."
Me:
"I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"
Mary:
"Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."
Me:
"I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?"
Mary:
"It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."
Me:
"How do you figure that?"
Mary:
"Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"
Me:
"Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."
John:
"No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."
Me:
"But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."
John:
"There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."
Me:
"Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."
Mary:
"But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."
Me:
"I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."
John:
"Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"
Me:
"We do?"
Mary:
"Of course we do, Item 7 says so."
Me:
"You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"
John:
"Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."
Me:
"But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"
Mary:
She blushes.
John:
"Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."
Me:
"What if I don't have a bun?"
John:
"No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."
Me:
"No relish? No Mustard?"
Mary:
She looks positively stricken.
John:
He's shouting. "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"
Me:
"So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"
Mary:
Sticks her fingers in her ears."I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."
John:
"That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."
Me:
"It's good! I eat it all the time."
Mary:
She faints.
John:
He catches Mary. "Well, if I'd known you where one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."
With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off. -
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new, nowhere to turn, ashamed & afraid
by azzazel inhullo everybody i'm new here, even though i've been lurking now for several months.. i have to say how afraid i am to post, afraid and ashamed but i feel if i dont tell my story, i honestly dont know what may happen to me or my children if they lose me, right now i feel like i've got nowhere left to turn and have my doubts about this place as well.. i know my story will shock you but i cant keep it in any longer.
i am recently disfellowshipped for immorality, the subject of a kingdom hall witch -hunt and subsequent congregational humiliation, .
during the process of the judicial committee meetings and proceedings no consideration was given to my real human circumstances nor to the spirit of survival nor human nature nor that of a mother seeking to protect her children from lack of basic fundamentals such as food, shelter and clothing.
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messenger
hello.....its over.......az has not replied since the 13th and evidently is not coming back. let it go....if she was real she has moved on. if she was a troll as most suspect she/he is laughing their a$$ off at how this thread just keeps going. stop, let this dog die please. besides i am jealous because no one is responding to my needs.
albanian dwarf
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New field service tactics!
by NikL innew regular pioneer techniques .
these are untried and untested techniques to get .
they're called goats in the bible.
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messenger
how about a response to the response....
1. i know you think you are really smart, but most of jw's have never finished high school, believe me to everyone else in the universe that is not very smart.
2. yes i am busy, you see i have a day job and do not work as a janitor the way most jw's do, which of course gives them more time to pester people.
3. gee you guys have it so together, you mean if i join that i can wear really cheap suits, drive worn out cars around doing endless book sales, i need a few days to think it over....
4. i am not interested in being a stupid cult member and talking to someone who is to stupid to realize it. have a nice day.
5. i understand what the bible says about goats being destroyed, have you ever read the scripture about what God does to people who judge others?
6. after accepting magazines say, i really enjoy these because when i take a dump i find crap sticks these twice as good as toilet paper.
7. someday when you open your mind to really thinking about things, you are going to realize just how foolish you are today. When you do, i hope you remember this day and remember me as the person who told you it was going to happen.
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I Lost My Heart When I Used My Mind
by messenger ini lost my heart when i used my mind.
it is a road many have traveled, an uncertain path wrought with fear and adversity, yet a journey that for many must be completed or they will never feel at peace.
when a person has heart, they may be described as motivated, a leader, a person who draws others to their cause.
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messenger
I lost my heart when I used my mind
It is a road many have traveled, an uncertain path wrought with fear and adversity, yet a journey that for many must be completed or they will never feel at peace. When a person has heart, they may be described as motivated, a leader, a person who draws others to their cause. Such was the case with I, everything, every fiber of my being was immersed in dedication to a cause I felt was the only sense that could be made of life as we know it in the world we live in. As all humans are given a gift to find or when discovered to use to feel fulfillment in life, so was I given a unique gift I discovered at a young age and that was to teach. I found great satisfaction in being able to impart in creative ways knowledge that would in turn motivate many to expend themselves in what I thought would be the best way of life. So many lives I have touched with a smug satisfaction that over time has evaporated into despair at realizing I was used as a tool to waste the lives of so many. Somewhere along the way this creative mind I was given began to turn against my heart, my motivation, everything I placed as important in life. How could it do this to me? I fought for years to forget, suppress and simply not think of troubling issues, but my mind could not be lobotomized into motivated activity without reason. It was a battle, a war with all the pain and anguish that destroys the innocence of young boys who go in with a noble cause, then come out forever changed after enduring the results that war produces. Very similar was my battle, not with guns or bullets, but instead, with heart and mind, an internal conflict complete with charging victories and withering surrenders that exhaust the body and torment your soul. Would it ever end? Would I destroy myself before a victory could be found? The only solution I could find was to make a decision, as indecision is what wastes a person’s sanity. I must set a time, a limit as to when victory would be declared one way or the other. Whatever the consequences I would accept and move on with my life. I gave it a year, as that year progressed my mind began to bombard my heart with the heavy artillery of reason. The harder I tried to work, the heavier the blast of trying to find the reason why. I could feel my heart beginning to concede, my joy, was no more. The very thing from which I drew the most pleasure, teaching others creatively, became a heavy load that came to the point of feeling physically ill when I approached the platform. I did away with all notes, research and study, it was too painful, I just spoke from my heart, a heart that was losing the battle, yet would fight courageously like a loyal knight defending the honor of a corrupt king in a cause he knew he could not win. Finally the battle ended, like the eerie silence that drifts over a war zone at the end of the day, there was no celebration, no party, no jubilation, instead a sad realization it was finally over.My mind had won a hard fought victory with excellent strategy and complete superiority had destroyed the enemy. But this was not the enemy, it was an old friend, something I had dispatched so handily in the heat of battle, now lay before me slowly dieing with nothing but pleading in his eyes for me to save him somehow. An old friend who had came through for me so many times, who always had my back when trouble threatened, who picked me up when I was down and kept me going. Even though he was misguided how could I have hurt him so?
I feel I must gently pick him up, take him to a safe place, and carefully nurse him back to health. He must be saved for he is my heart my motivation for finding a cause to fight for. You see even though my mind won the battle, without my heart I lose the war.
It is a long process, much like a wounded soldier, the rehabilitation is a slow and arduous progression. The trust is no longer there, the will to fight, while still a twinkle, quickly gives out when too much is asked. I recall the saying, “sometimes it just takes time to heal.” I know I must not give up on it, but I feel my heart will never be the same and I hope that change will be realized someday as for the better. Perhaps this story can be a reminder to remember to not lose your heart when you use your mind.