Sounds like a JW induced blood doctrine subconscious rejection syndrome.
messenger
JoinedPosts by messenger
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strangest/horrifying dream....
by wonderwoman77 inlast night i had the weirdist dream...i had a dream that i was going to be euthinized.
in my dream i was diagnosised with a brain tumor and somehow my mom had got me to sign a paper that i would agree to get the procedure.
but they were not 100% sure i would die if i did not have it.
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Giving Appropriate and Effective Counsel
by messenger inat a previous elder's school the following direction was given on who should offer counseling for those with problems in the congregation.
the statement went like this:.
"human sources are wrong for counsel, for this reason we look to the bible as the only source.
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messenger
At a previous Elder's School the following direction was given on who should offer counseling for those with problems in the congregation. The statement went like this:
"Human sources are wrong for counsel, for this reason we look to the bible as the only source. As elders we are responsible to give scriptural counsel for the sick or those who experience mental anguish."
Then the reference below was cited as the basis of this view:
*** w90 4/1 13-14 God's Word Is Truth ***
The Bible’s Counsel—Uniquely Wise12 Today, of course, there are many sources of counsel outside the Bible. Newspapers carry advice columns, and bookstores are full of self-help books. Additionally, there are psychologists, professional counselors, and others who offer advice in different fields. But the Bible is unique in at least three aspects. First, its counsel is always beneficial. It is never mere theory, and it never works to our harm. Anyone who follows the Bible’s counsel has to agree with the psalmist when he said to God in prayer: “Your own reminders have proved very trustworthy.”—Psalm 93:5.
13 Second, the Bible has stood the test of time. (1 Peter 1:25; Isaiah 40:8) Counsel from human sources is notoriously changeable, and what is in fashion one year is often criticized the next. However, although the Bible was completed almost 2,000 years ago, it still contains the wisest counsel available, and its words are universally applicable. They apply with equal effect whether we live in Africa, in Asia, in South or North America, in Europe, or in the isles of the sea.
14 Finally, the wide range of the Bible’s counsel is unequalled. A Bible proverb says: “Jehovah himself gives wisdom,” and no matter what problem or decision we face, there is wisdom in the Bible that helps us to solve it. (Proverbs 2:6) Children, teenagers, parents, old folks, employees, employers, people in authority, all find that the wisdom in the Bible applies to them. (Proverbs 4:11) Even when we face situations that were unknown in the time of Jesus and his apostles, the Bible gives us counsel that works. For example, back in the first century, tobacco smoking was unknown in the Middle East. Today, it is widespread. Nevertheless, anyone who takes note of the Bible’s counsel to avoid being “brought under authority [or controlled] by anything” and to keep clean from “every defilement of flesh and spirit” will avoid this habit, which is both addictive and destructive to health.—1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Corinthians 7:1.
If you were a brother or sister who was deeply depressed, or who had been raped, or experienced child molestation, marital problems, etc... How do you think the typical elder in attendance at this school would interpret your attempt to obtain outside therapy for assistance on any specific matter described above? So if in the future WT takes the witness stand and says, "we never discourage our members from going to outside counselors to obtain assistance." I wonder if anyone will remember this "spiritual food at the proper time?"
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Child Custody Packet, need letter to BOE...
by SUSCARRA indoes anyone out there know if there was a letter(s) from the wtbts to the body of elders containing information on the 'special child custody packet' that is used to help jws get custody in court?
if so, please respond asap.
it's real important my dear friends.. suscarra
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messenger
July 1. 1989
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN THE UNITED STATES
C O N F I DEN T I A L
Dear Brothers:
We are writing to help all of you as individual elders be aware of a growing concern regarding the handling of your duties that may involve legal issues or questions. Due to its importance. the presiding overseer should arrange for a special meeting of the body of elders to read and consider this letter carefully.
In spreading the Kingdom message, it is appropriate that we be bold and outspoken. Jesus commanded that "what you hear whispered. preach from the housetops." (Matthew 10:27) Even when worldly authorities
demand that we keep silent, we reply as did the apostles: "We cannot stop speaking about the things we have seen and heard." (Acts 4:20) The Christian congregation will continue to declare the Kingdom message boldly until Jehovah says the work is done.
Elders share the obligation to shepherd the flock. However, they must be careful not to divulge information about personal matters to unauthorized persons. There is "a time to keep quiet," when "your words should prove to be few." (Ecclesiastes 3:7; 5:2) Proverbs 10:19 warns: "In the abundance of words there does not fail to be
transgression. but the one keeping his lips in check is acting discreetly." Problems are created when elders unwisely reveal matters that should be kept confidential. Elders must give special heed to the counsel: "Do not reveal the confidential talk of another." (Proverbs 25:9) Often the peace, unity, and spiritual well-being of the congregation are at stake. Improper use of the tongue by an elder can result in serious legal problems for the individual. the congregation. and even the Society.
While we as Christians are ready to forgive others who may wrong us. those in the world are not so inclined. Worldly persons are quick to resort to lawsuits if they feel their "rights" have been violated. Some who oppose the Kingdom preaching work readily take advantage of any legal provisions to interfere with it or impede its progress. Thus. elders must especially guard the use of the tongue. Jesus faced opposers who tried to "catch him in speech. so as to turn him over to the government." (Luke 20:20) He instructed us to be "cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves" in such situations. (Matthew 10:16) Where such a threat exists, our position as elders should be in line with David's words: "I will set a muzzle as a guard to my own mouth, as long as anyone wicked is in front of me."-Psalm 39:1.
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
July 1. 1989
Page 2
In recent years, this matter has come to be a cause for increasing concern. The spirit of the world has sensitized people regarding their legal "rights" and the legal means by which they can exact punishment if such "rights" are violated. Hence, a growing number of vindictive or disgruntled ones, as well as opposerst have initiated
lawsuits to inflict financial penalties on the individual, the congregation. or the Society. Many of these lawsuits are the result of the misuse of the tongue. As elders, remember that ill-advised statements or actions on your part can sometimes be interpreted legally as violating others' "rights."
The need for elders to maintain strict confidentiality has been repeatedly stressed. Please see The Watchtower of April It 1971. pages 222-4. and September 1. 1987. pages 12-15. The September 1977 our Kingdom Service. page 6. paragraph 36, and the ks77 textbook, page 65. also- provide helpful direction and counsel. That material
strongly emphasized the elders' responsibility to avoid revealing confidential information to those not entitled to it.
The legal consequences of a breach of confidentiality by the elders can be substantial. If the elders fail to follow the society's direction carefully in handling confidential matters. such mistakes could result in successful litigation by.those offended. Substantial monetary damages could be assessed against the elders or congregation. In some cases where the authorities are involved, certain complications could lead to a fine or imprisonment. These possibilities underscore the need for elders to be discerning and to follow carefully directions provided by the Society.
I. WHAT TO DO IN SPECIFIC CASES
A. Judicial Committee Matters
Judicial committees must follow carefully the Society's instructions in carrying out their duties. (Note k07. pages 66-70; ks81 pages 160-70.) Anything submitted in writing to the committee by the alleged wrongdoer or by witnesses should be kept in strict confidence. If it is necessary to continue at a later time a committee hearing. the members of the committee should submit to the chairman any personal notes they have taken. The chairman will keep these notes in a secure place to prevent breaches of confidentiality. The notes may be
returned to the individual elders when the hearing resumes. Upon conclusion of the case. The chairman should place only necessary notes and documents, a summary of the case, and the S-77 forms in a sealed envelope for the congregation file. Nothing should be preserved outside of this sealed envelope (including unnecessary
personal notes) by any elder on the committee. Obviously, no committee will ever allow judicial proceedings to be tape recorded or allow witnesses testifying before the committee to take notes.
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
July 1. 1989
Page 3
B. Child Abuse
Many states have child abuse reporting laws. When elders receive reports of physical or sexual abuse of a child,they should contact the Society's Legal Department immediately. Victims of such abuse need to be protected from further danger. -See "If the Worst Should Happen." Awake! January 22t 1985. page 8.
C. Search Warrants and Subpoenas
1. A search warrant is a court order authorizing the police to search premises to locate evidence that may be used in a criminal prosecution. No elder should ever consent to the search of a Kingdom Hall or any other place where confidential records are stored. However. armed with a search warrant the police do not need
consent and may even use force to accomplish their task. Likely before obtaining a search warrant. the police or other governmental officials will make inquiries regarding confidential records. make request to obtain the records, or indicate that they will seek a search warrant if the elder(s) involved does not cooperate. In any such situation, the Society's Legal Department should be called immediately.
At any time an elder is confronted with a search warrant (whether given advance notice or not), the elder should first ask to read the warrant. After reading it he should ask if he can call for legal guidance and then call the Society's Legal Department. If for some reason the Legal Department cannot be contacted. the elders involved
should make every effort to obtain ,the assistance of a local attorney for the purpose of protecting the confidentiality of the records. It may be impossible to stop determined officers from conducting the search authorized by the warrant. Conscientious elders will want to do all they reasonably and peaceably can to
preserve the confidentiality of the congregation in harmony with the principle set out in Acts 5:29.
2. Subpoenas are demands for records or for the appearance of an individual at a trial or deposition to give testimony. Subpoenas may be issued by a court or in some cases by a governmental agency or an attorney. If an elder receives a subpoena# he should contact the Society's Legal Department immediately. Never turn over records notes. documents. or reveal any confidential matter sought by subpoena without receiving direction from the Legal Department.
D. Crimes and Criminal Investigations
In some cases the elders will form judicial committees to handle alleged wrongdoing that also could constitute a violation of Caesar's criminal laws (e.g., theft. assault, etc.). Generally. a secular investigation into a matter that is a concern to the congregation should not delay conducting a judicial hearing. To avoid entanglement with the secular authorities who may be investigating the same matter, the strictest confidentiality (even of the fact that there is a committee) must be maintained.
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
July 1. 1989
Page 4
If the alleged wrongdoer confesses to the sin (crime), no one else should be present besides the members of the committee. When evidence supports the accusation but genuine repentance is not displayed resulting in a decision to disfellowship this should be handled in the normal course regarding advice of appeal rights and
announcements to the congregation. In cases of serious criminal wrongdoing (e.g., murder, rape, etc.), or where the criminal conduct is widely known in the community the body of elders should contact the Society before proceeding with the judicial committee process.
E. When Servants and Publishers Move
A considerable number of publishers, including elders and ministerial servants move from one congregation to another. Sometimes the circumstances surrounding their departure are unsettled. Some appointed brothers may be experiencing problems that have brought their qualifications into question. It is not uncommon for a body of elders to hold back in giving counsel. allowing a brother to move without discussing his problem. Thereafter, they decline to recommend his reappointment in his new congregation. Often such a brother protests, requiring extensive correspondence between the bodies of elders. Much personal, and sometimes embarrassing, information must then be passed on. Such mishandling of things greatly increases the potential for serious
repercussions. Problems can be avoided by the body of elders assuming its responsibility to inform a brother that he will not be favorably recommended, fully explaining the reasons why. Every effort should be made to resolve any difference before he leaves, eliminating any need. for controversy involving his new congregation.
The body should assign two elders to meet with him before he moves. letting him know whether they are recommending him to the new congregation.
This would likewise apply to publishers who move at a time when their personal conduct requires investigation by the elders. If serious accusations of wrongdoing have been made against an individual and he moves to another congregation before matters are finalized# usually it is best for the elders in the original congregation to follow through in handling matters. if possible and if distance permits. They are acquainted with the individual
and the circumstances surrounding the alleged wrongdoing; this ordinarily puts them in the best position to get the facts and to handle the case. Handling matters in this way will eliminate the need to reveal confidential information unnecessarily about the private lives of individuals.
F. When Lawsuits Are Threatened
If the congregation or the elders (in their capacity as elders) are threatened with a lawsuit. the Society's Legal Department should be contacted immediately. No statements should be made by any member of the body of elders about the merits or validity of an actual or threatened lawsuit without authorization from the Society.
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
July 1. 1989
Page 5
G. Child Custody
Elders may learn that a publisher is facing a dispute over child custody in a divorce proceeding. If the parental rights of such is challenged on the basis of our Christian beliefs, or on the assertion that our beliefs are harmful to a child's best interests, the elders should immediately write to the Society's Legal Department. In a rare emergency, a telephone call may be necessary. The Legal Department will assess the facts and determine the
degree of its involvement, if any. Elders have no authority to make any promises about the Society's paying legal fees or handling specific cases. There is no need to contact the Society if there is no indication that the beliefs and practices of Jehovah's Witnesses will be attacked in a child custody dispute. When you write to the Society's Legal Department about a specific case. please provide the following information:
1. The names of the parents and their attorneys.
2. The number of children involved and their ages.
3. A brief description of the facts, including the presence of any apostates.
4. An assessment of the Christian parent's spiritual condition-Is he or she new in the truth? Active?
Inactive? Balanced?
5. The status of the legal proceedings-Has the matter gone to trial? Has the trial date been set? If soy
when?
II. POINTS-TO REMEMBER
A. Appreciate the Importance of Maintaining Confidentiality
Elders must exercise extraordinary caution when it comes to handling confidential information about the private lives of others. Do not mistakenly minimize the gravity of a breach of confidentiality. Unauthorized disclosure of confidential information can result in costly lawsuits. Even if a lawsuit turns out favorably. valuable time and energy that could have been devoted to Kingdom interests will be lost.
B. Do Not Make Statements to Secular Authorities Until You Receive Legal Advice from the Society You are not legally required to make immediate responses to secular authorities about matters that could
involve the disclosure of confidential information. Voluntarily allowing the Kingdom Hall or confidential records to be searched, where no search warrant is produced, could infringe on the legal rights of the congregation or of others. No statements should be made until you have an understanding of your legal position
from the Society's Legal Department.
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
July 1. 1989
Page 5
G. Child Custody
Elders may learn that a publisher is facing a dispute over child custody in a divorce proceeding. If the parental rights of such is challenged on the basis of our Christian beliefs, or on the assertion that our beliefs are harmful to a child's best interests, the elders should immediately write to the Society's Legal Department. In a rare emergency, a telephone call may be necessary. The Legal Department will assess the facts and determine the
degree of its involvement, if any. Elders have no authority to make any promises about the Society's paying legal fees or handling specific cases. There is no need to contact the Society if there is no indication that the beliefs and practices of Jehovah's Witnesses will be attacked in a child custody dispute.
When you write to the Society's Legal Department about a specific case. please provide the following information:
1. The names of the parents and their attorneys.
2. The number of children involved and their ages.
3. A brief description of the facts, including the presence of any apostates.
4. An assessment of the Christian parent's spiritual condition-Is he or she new in the truth? Active?
Inactive? Balanced?
5. The status of the legal proceedings-Has the matter gone to trial? Has the trial date been set? If soy
when?
II. POINTS-TO REMEMBER
A. Appreciate the Importance of Maintaining Confidentiality
Elders must exercise extraordinary caution when it comes to handling confidential information about the private lives of others. Do not mistakenly minimize the gravity of a breach of confidentiality. Unauthorized disclosure of confidential information can result in costly lawsuits. Even if a lawsuit turns out favorably. valuable time and energy that could have been devoted to Kingdom interests will be lost.
B. Do Not Make Statements to Secular Authorities Until You Receive Legal Advice from the Society You are not legally required to make immediate responses to secular authorities about matters that could
involve the disclosure of confidential information. Voluntarily allowing the Kingdom Hall or confidential records to be searched, where no search warrant is produced, could infringe on the legal rights of the congregation or of others. No statements should be made until you have an understanding of your legal position
from the Society's Legal Department.
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
July 1. 1989
Page 6
C. Be Extremely Careful with Written Material
All material related to judicial matters should be kept in a safe placer accessible only to elders. Final reports on the handling of judicial matters should be placed in a sealed envelope in the congregation file. A judicial committee should avoid sending to an individual any kind of correspondence that accuses him of specific
wrongdoing. (Note ks77, pages 68-9.) Nothing should be put in writing to any disfellowshipped person to advise him of his status or the reasons for it without specific direction from the Society. The rules and procedures of Jehovah's Witnesses do not require such written disclosures. Anything in writing submitted to a judicial committee should be kept in strict confidence. If a judicial committee disfellowships an individual, he should be informed orally of the action taken and of the right to appeal. If the wrongdoer refuses to attend the hearing. two members of the judicial committee should attempt to contact the individual at his home and inform
him orally of the decision. If this is not possible, the two elders may be able to inform him by telephone.
D. Guard the Use of Your Tongue
Think before you speak. Do not discuss private and judicial matters with members of your family. including your wives, or with other members of the congregation. Be extremely careful not to inadvertantly disclose private information when others are present. such as when speaking on the telephone with others listening in or
nearby. (Note ks77, page 65.) At times. complicated judicial cases may necessitate consultation with an experienced, mature elder in another congregation or with the circuit overseer. Unless the circuit overseer is the elder consulted, only the pertinent details should be discussed and names should not be used. Elders bear a heavy responsibility in ministering to the needs of the Christian congregation, and observing confidentiality as they do so. (1 Corinthians 16:13) We trust that the information in this letter will help you carry this burden. Please be assured of our love and prayers, and may Jehovah continue to bless you as you shepherd his flock.-1 Peter 5:1-3.
Your brothers.
OF NEW YORK, IN C.
P.S. Due to the importance of the information that is presented herein it is suggested that the body of elders jointly read and consider this letter as soon as possible after its receipt in the congregation. Please do not make any copies of this letter. nor should it be read by others. It should be kept in the congregation's confidential files for any future reference that may be required by the body of elders. -
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Child Custody Packet, need letter to BOE...
by SUSCARRA indoes anyone out there know if there was a letter(s) from the wtbts to the body of elders containing information on the 'special child custody packet' that is used to help jws get custody in court?
if so, please respond asap.
it's real important my dear friends.. suscarra
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messenger
December 2, 1991
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN THE UNITED STATES
Re: Child Custody Matters
Dear Brothers:
We wrote to you on July 1, 1989, concerning the area of child custody and visitation rights disputes. On page 5, under subheading G, entitled "Child Custody," we asked bodies of elders to provide the Society's Legal Department with specific information about proceedings concerning child custody or visitation rights litigation where our Christian beliefs are asserted to be harmful to the children's best interests.
We are writing again to ask for your continued cooperation in this matter due to increased apostate involvement in child custody and visitation rights proceedings. When a member of the congregation is involved in such a proceeding, we believe you should pointedly inquire of the Witness parent whether the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses are being challenged through, the use of publications and/or "expert testimony." Please continue to inquire of the Witness parent about whether there may be such involvement until the proceeding has been concluded. In the event that you are informed by the Witness parent of such involvement, immediately telephone the Society's Legal Department about the information you have learned and for further direction.
We believe that this direction will be beneficial to our brothers who are facing a challenge to our beliefs in such proceedings. May Jehovah bless your efforts as you shepherd the flock of God in your care.-1 Peter 5:1-3.
Your brothers,
OF NEW YORK, INC. -
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JW lawyer acts"INNAPPROPRITLEY"
by Beans inregarding the case of the young girl in alberta!!!.
http://www.globeandmail.com.
the lawyer wrote a letter to the top judge asking him to intervene with the case.the judge responded that lawyers should know better than to ask a provinces chief justice to meddle in another judges case and deemed it innappropriate!!!.
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messenger
The link did not work but here is the story,
Teenager with leukemia to fight transfusion moves
By DAWN WALTON
With a report from Canadian Press
Saturday, February 23, 2002 – Print Edition, Page A6CALGARY -- A teenager with leukemia will have two chances to fight a pair of Alberta court rulings that made her a ward of the province so that she could be given life-saving blood transfusions against her wishes.
Yesterday, a trial in family court was scheduled for eight days beginning on June 17, during which the province will seek temporary guardianship of the 16-year-old.
The young woman, who is a Jehovah's Witness and can't be named because of stipulations in Alberta's Child Welfare Act, doesn't want another person's blood because it contravenes her faith.
But on Monday, a family-court judge allowed Alberta's director of child welfare to apprehend the teenager after the province argued that she is not mature enough to reject the treatment.
Two days later, David Gnam, the lawyer for the teenager, asked the Alberta Court of Queen's Bench to block the blood transfusions until that ruling could be appealed. But Mr. Justice John Rooke refused the request, concluding that, without treatment, the teenager will suffer irreparable harm.
An appeal of that decision is set for April 25 and 26. If it is successful, the trial in June is moot.
Meanwhile, the controversial case has ruffled feathers in surprising quarters. The law firm representing the young woman wrote to the top judge of Alberta's Court of Queen's Bench to ask him to intervene. Chief Justice Allan Wachowich, who received the letter yesterday, called the request inappropriate. He said lawyers should know better than to ask a province's chief justice to meddle in another judge's case.
Robert Calvert, the lawyer representing the teenager's father, also called the letter inappropriate, particularly since other counsel in the case was not given notice. "Everybody was a bit ticked off that they had done that," Mr. Calvert said.
Although the teenager lives at home with both parents, each has opposing views on treatment and each has a lawyer. Her father wants her to have the blood transfusions despite a biblical text that suggests blood of animals should not be taken into the human body.
The Grade 11 student was diagnosed last week with acute myeloid leukemia.
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UnitedNations orders investigation:child sex abuse
by sf inthis item was a small piece in my local news, so i did a search and found it on the net here:.
< http://24hour.startribune.com/24hour/world/story/272723p-2496644c.html.
u.n. secretary-general orders investigation into sex abuse allegations.
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messenger
I have to wonder if there is any link to WT "Aidafrique" based out of France? They use unhcr transportation to distribute relief supplies to refugees.
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More threats...
by Elsewhere ini received this message from someone trying to "help" me by making threats of eternal damnation.
ahhh yes, can't you feel the love?.
if you die today will you go to heaven .
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messenger
" Oh Lord, please protect us from your followers."
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WT PR STRATTON
by messenger infor immediate release .
february 25, 2002. u.s. supreme court to examine anonymity and free speech.
tomorrow the supreme court of the united states will hear oral arguments regarding whether it is constitutionally permissible for a municipality to impose preconditions on anyone who merely desires to speak with his neighbors about an issue they are interested in.
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messenger
For Immediate Release
February 25, 2002U.S. Supreme Court to examine anonymity and free speech
Tomorrow the Supreme Court of the United States will hear oral arguments regarding whether it is constitutionally permissible for a municipality to impose preconditions on anyone who merely desires to speak with his neighbors about an issue they are interested in. Should anyone who wishes to advance a cause be required to obtain a permit from the local authorities and produce identification before being allowed to call from door to door? The Supreme Court will look closely at the right to speak without such restrictions under the provision known as "anonymous political discourse."
Professor of Law David A. Goldberger, a First Amendment scholar at Ohio State University, explains the significance of the case this way: "In this case, Stratton Ohio officials seek to require a permit to hold one-on-one conversations about religion and politics. A loss by the Jehovah's Witnesses in their efforts to go door-to-door on a religious mission without the gratuitous involvement of the government could ultimately mean that the government could require a permit to walk up to strangers on a public sidewalk to talk to them."
"This basic right includes any cause-related speech," comments attorney Paul Polidoro, who will be presenting the oral arguments on behalf of Jehovah's Witnesses. He points out that "it has never been the desire of Jehovah's Witnesses to accomplish their public ministry anonymously; in fact, most Witnesses identify themselves early on when engaging a householder in conversation. But should a secular authority determine the appropriateness of extending or withholding permission from someone who simply wants to speak by going from door to door?"
Internationally, Jehovah's Witnesses take seriously the God-given commission to share the Bible's hope with all humanity. Collectively, they spend more than a billion hours each year in carrying out that assignment. The message they bring has comforted many listeners. Of the various forms that their ministry takes, the Witnesses view door-to-door calls as an essential way of reaching every individual. The decision whether to engage in a conversation has always been a personal one for the resident to make. Jehovah's Witnesses feel that the decision should remain a personal, as opposed to a governmental, matter.
"We highly esteem our freedom of speech, as our words are an intrinsic part of our worship," stated organizational spokesman J.R. Brown. "For this reason, Jehovah's Witnesses cannot conscientiously ask for any human's permission to speak about God's Kingdom."
Media contact: J.R. Brown (718) 560-5600
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Washington Post -- Rev. "Jellyfish" R...
by Alleymom inalthough i am pretty new to this board, i've been reading about jw issues for a long time, around 13 years.
i have an old washington post article in my files, from may 4,1906, that i have never seen anywhere on the internet.. the article is titled "rev.
jellyfish russell" and it is a very sarcastic commentary on russell's infamous jellyfish statement, made during his court trial for divorce.. i copied the article from microfilm in a university library, and unfortunately it does have scratch marks, but the words are quite plain.. last week when i was doing an altavista search i came across one of tom tallyman's webpages.
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messenger
Now you are getting it! Pastor Russell won $1 in a jury award. It seems they did not feel he was injured too badly. After appealing it to a higher court they sent it back to the lower court and the Post quietly settled for an undisclosed sum to Russell. I wonder what the sum was?
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Washington Post -- Rev. "Jellyfish" R...
by Alleymom inalthough i am pretty new to this board, i've been reading about jw issues for a long time, around 13 years.
i have an old washington post article in my files, from may 4,1906, that i have never seen anywhere on the internet.. the article is titled "rev.
jellyfish russell" and it is a very sarcastic commentary on russell's infamous jellyfish statement, made during his court trial for divorce.. i copied the article from microfilm in a university library, and unfortunately it does have scratch marks, but the words are quite plain.. last week when i was doing an altavista search i came across one of tom tallyman's webpages.
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messenger
Justin, you stated,
"Messenger,
All you have done is quoted from the court testimony to which I provided a link. You have not supplied any evidence that there was a second woman involved other than Rose Ball. You have not supplied any evidence of a sexual scandal in England, merely asserted it."You need to reread the link you provided as it describs another woman, I quote,
Q. You state that you found him doing this at other times. How often after that?
A. I found him a number of times, I don’t remember how often.
Q. In her room?
A. Yes, sir. And I found him in the servants girl’s room as well, and I found him locked in the servant girl’s room.
Q. Did he make any explanation why he was in the girl’s room?
A. No, he did not; he just got angry.I does not appear the "servant girl" was Rose Ball. She also was implicated as helping the good Pastor satisfy his spiritual need. Regarding the Pastor's England adventures, stay tuned evidence shall appear in due time "oh yee of little faith."
Russell in his testimony never directly answered the question regarding the "jellyfish" statement. He stated words to the effect, "I think of a jellyfish as a species that does not have a spine and I never considered myself compared to something that does not have a spine." The attorney neve asked the second question, "did you ever actually make that statement to Rose Ball?" If this question had been asked you would have probably had yet another Bill Clinton response with a play on words. In testimony he clearly evaded the question, in his rebuttal in the WT he never directly answered the question. Why? Would it not have been simple to say I NEVER MADE THAT STATEMENT! Yet the good Pastor always danced around the question. Certainly an "innocent" man could have spoken more clearly regarding this slanderous statement. He certainly did not have any problem with slandering his wife in print on the pages of the WT. His lack of candor on such an obivous matter points to the actual truth of the matter. He did make the statement and knew if he called Rose Ball a liar it could possibly induce her to clarify the facts of the matter publicly. This was a pot he did not want to stir.
Dungbeetle seems to have a better handle on who Russell was, Justin perhaps you need to do further research to complete the picture.
Alleymom, do you have any further evidence as to what happened to Rose Ball? When did she pass away?
Just courious.