Posts by metatron

12

Questions on Stephen Bates Article WT attack

by messenger in

jw
friends

thought you'd be interested to know that i have just been forwarded a note from the watch tower, belatedly in response to the tiny little story i got in on 17 november about that chicago jw couple accused of beating their daughter to death.

it is interesting that they shld respond - on headed notepaper, apparently from pennsylvania - nearly a month later about something that really got very little space and i can't help feeling it's not unconnected with the other stuff i was writing at that time.

this is it, in full:.

metatron

If you really believe what the Watchtower teaches,
why not risk beating your children to death?

Remember, if they aren't faithful, they will be destroyed
forever at Armageddon. If they have a measure of adult responsibility,
they could get killed in a traffic accident tomorrow and never
be resurrected. Furthermore, the organization has allowed
physical punishment of children - even quoting the Bible to
recommend it. If nothing else works, why not beat them?

If you find this reasoning repellent, good.
The spin doctors can prate on about love all they wish.
They'll probably convince many Witnesses that nothing is wrong
with this sick, twisted organization (always their goal).

Extreme beliefs create extreme actions.
I's just that simple.

metatron

14

With friends like these.......

by Belmont in

jw
friends

we've been out three years after many many years enmeshed in the org; not df'd or da'd, just fading away for family's sake.

this is a letter we received this morning from a jw friend of 25 years' standing who has continued to invite us to her house for meals, and eat with us during the past three years.. dear****, when i first knew you had ceased coming to the meetings, my heart felt love for you both, made me visit you.

the intention was to win back my dear brother and sister.. over a period of time i have come to realize that you have ceased associating with jehovah's organization and my conscience now feels i cannot continue our association.. i am sorry to lose you as friends.

metatron

And what exactly have you lost? a friend? It doesn't seem so.
You just lost an associate pretending to be your friend.

My stepdaughter got into some trouble with local elders.
I warned her that they would disfellowship her and that her
friends in the congregation would shun her.
She replied:

"Well, if they do, they were never my friends".

very wise indeed

metatron

11

Service Year 2002 so far

by GermanXJW in

jw
friends

by means of km2/02 we already have the numbers for the first two months.

firstly, i looked at it because i was curious if there would be any effect of the events of sep 11th.

but when i went back down to 1993. i hope i did the format correctly.

metatron

This is good because it shows that the terrorism is having little
or no effect on the continuing decline - except for a small
rally in the U.S. that may prove temporary.

They must pray for death and sickness and horrors to occur
to drive people into their greedy claws.

metatron

20

Can you be Df'ed without a JC?

by BritBoy in

jw
friends

as most of you know, i quietly left the borg and moved countries.

recently i heard from an ex jw back in my former country of residence that she had heard i had been df'ed and it was announced at a meeting... can they do this?

if it is true that is!

metatron

as your question stands, no, you can't be df'd without a
judicial commitee.

The reality is:
1) if you join the military, you are da'd automatically.
the meeting of a judicial commitee is just a formality
to confirm that you joined - or attempted to join a branch
of the armed forces. Whether you attend the meeting or not
is irrelevant. If you 'wash out' of induction and get discharged,
you STILL will be da'd automatically.

2) if they have witnesses to some act like smoking or fornication,
they're supposed to at least send you a letter to attend
a judicial hearing. If the letter goes to the wrong address,
or gets lost, tough luck. So, you can be df'd without knowing
about it.

The reality is that they can df anybody for just about anything
and the Society will almost always back up the local elders
no matter how corrupt or lying they may be - as long as they pretend
to go thru the motions of fairness.

In some cases, df'ing may even be useful in covering up
crime or sexual abuse - you just disfellowship the molested
victim to shut them up. (I know!)

metatron

9

One Man Could Do It

by metatron in

jw
friends

one man could do it.. like samson, positioned between pillars of vital structure,.

one man could bring the watchtower society crashing down.. it could be another governing body member, defecting.. it could be someone in the legal dept.

or writing staff,.

metatron

One man could do it.

Like Samson, positioned between pillars of vital structure,
one man could bring the Watchtower Society crashing down.

It could be another Governing Body member, defecting.
It could be someone in the Legal Dept. or Writing Staff,
or perhaps, the Service Dept.

Armed with documents, recordings, and other evidence.
Ready to write a book, ready to be interviewed on CNN or Fox news.

Someone who can prove that the blood issue is a fraud,
Someone who can document bribery and financial misdeeds,
Someone who has reached the 'end of their rope'.

They survived one Ray Franz,
They may not be able to survive another.

You Bethel Lurkers reading this,
Stare across your dining halls and crowded hallways.
Ask yourself, Who will it be?
Who has the 'goods'?
Who has the opportunity?
Who finally has the will to do it?

Time will tell

but one man could bring it all crashing down.....

metatron

11

When Reform Becomes Impossible

by metatron in

jw
friends

in some organizations, reform can become impossible.. explosive and centrifugal forces can build up, year after year,.

without relief.

after that, even a small pin prick can cause.

metatron

In some organizations, reform can become impossible.
Explosive and centrifugal forces can build up, year after year,
without relief. After that, even a small pin prick can cause
the whole arrangement to burst, not unlike Jesus' illustration
of the wineskins.

Has the Watchtower reached this point? I note a significant
similarity with the former Soviet Union. Reforms were attempted
during Khrushev's rule and turned aside, allowing decay and pressure
to build for years. The Watchtower Society had a real opportunity
at reform during the beginning of the elder arrangement - while
Ray Franz was still on the Governing Body. As we all know, just
like the geriatric rulers of Russia, this effort at positive change
was crushed.

I note also that the Soviet Union gradually slid into financial
trouble, precipitating its fall. Paperback books and no more
subscriptions looks like the same drift downward.

Have they reached the point of no return? Would any basic change
in doctrine or practice burst the Watchtower bubble? I think a
case can be made that they must resist reform out of fear of
the deluge that might follow.('we can talk to df'd people?
we can take blood? we can vote?').

and here we sit, on the internet
with pins in hand.

metatron

95

Okay Fess Up: What's Your Handle Mean?

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

okay fess up: whats your handle mean?.

my handle: mindchild comes from computer scientist and futurist dr. hans moravec: who wrote the book, the future of robot and human intelligence which is a book about when we will be able to construct machines capable of human intelligence and raises the possibility of uploading ourselves (every thought we ever had) into an android body much superior to the human ones we have now.

i entertain the hope that not only will i live long enough to see this happen, i will transfer myself (the complete essence of what is me) into a body of my own choosing and become immortal if i so choose.

metatron

It symbolizes my conversion from a purely reductionistic viewpoint
into a deepening investigation of mysticism.

metatron

2

Like Drowning in a Straightjacket

by metatron in

jw
friends

take an old man, put him in a straight jacket and throw him in the ocean.. that's the organization today.. sure, he can kick and keep afloat for quite a while but eventually.

he'll get tired and drown - because he's tied up.. now, the organization finds itself limited, tied up, and unable.

to escape from a straight jacket of its own making.

metatron

Take an old man, put him in a straight jacket and throw him in the ocean.
That's the organization today.

Sure, he can kick and keep afloat for quite a while but eventually
he'll get tired and drown - because he's tied up.

Now, the organization finds itself limited, tied up, and unable
to escape from a straight jacket of its own making.

They can't get rid of their dead meetings.
They can't get rid of their unproductive, phoney "ministry".
They can't start real programs to encourage charity.
They can't get rid of the blood issue.
They can't admit that they're wrong.
They can't apologize publically for false prophecy.
They can't lose control by letting go of disfellowshipping.
They can't make real predictions because of the risk of being wrong.
They can't explicitly proclaim that governments are run by the Devil.
They can't write articles or speeches condemning homosexuals.
They can't condemn the Catholic Church openly.
They can't hold on to young people.
They can't remove too many corrupt elders.
They can't expose child molesters in the organization.
and so on.....

Everywhere they turn, looking to renew their former zeal and
dynamism, they find obstacles. So, all they can do is keep on
publishing platitudes and try to keep control over their tired
flock with theocratic 'code words'. They keep hoping for some
ugly disaster to revive their sick enterprize - another Twin
Tower attack would probably cheer them up but...

personally, I'd rather see them drown.

metatron (blub, blub, blub.......)

10

Baptism Nullification

by David Gladden in

jw
friends

several years ago i sent a letter to the elders of the congregation i was in notifying them that i no longer wished to be associated with the organization.

over time my brother has moved up the ranks and has recently come across an interesting piece of information regarding my case.

it turns out that the elders never filed my disassociation papers and never formally disassociated me.

metatron

I can't agree that nullification is something the Society
commonly allows. I think it is extremely rare.
They take the view that anyone who got baptized thereby made a
claim of being a dedicated Witness and suffers the df'ing
consequences accordingly.

It would be hard to believe that nullification would be anything
but very rare for a simple reason. If they allowed it to any degree,
they would be swamped with reversed disfellowshippings because
so many baptisms of Witness teenagers are phoney. The kids are
masturbating/fornicating/smoking/etc. in secret and get dunked
to get their parents off their backs.

metatron

5

How Silly is It?

by metatron in

jw
friends

on national public radio, they have an astronomy program called.

"earth and sky".

this morning they covered the question of.

metatron

On National Public radio, they have an astronomy program called
"Earth and Sky". This morning they covered the question of
which is greater, all the grains of sand on earth or all the stars
in the universe.

The best estimate is that the number of stars is larger by far.

Think of how immense the universe must be, vastly beyond our
imagination - far greater than any local illustration we can
conceive.

And in all that immensity, there's no other inhabited worlds
like ours?

And the only spokesmen of the Almighty Creator anywhere in the
flesh are about 11 isolated old geezers in Brooklyn?
That's the best God can do?

How silly is this religion, anyway?

metatron