Posts by ScenicViewer

16

Reading Crisis of Conscience

by hubert in

jw
friends

i've read it twice, and also "in search of christian freedom".

that's probably why i wasn't "afraid" to read it.. my question, which has bothered me for years is...how do you get a j.w.

to read crisis of conscience?

Reading Crisis of Conscience

by hubert in

jw
friends

i've read it twice, and also "in search of christian freedom".

that's probably why i wasn't "afraid" to read it.. my question, which has bothered me for years is...how do you get a j.w.

to read crisis of conscience?

ScenicViewer

Hubert said, "...I got a "stearn warning".....back off or lose us. So, I backed off. She knows where I'm coming from, unfortunately."

You have planated seeds. It may take some time for them to grow. Getting someone out of a high control religion like Watchtower isn't quick.

In time they may develop doubts, or see something that isn't right in the organization, or otherwise detect a crack in Watchtower. When that time comes they will remember some of the information that you gave them, and will be ready for more.

Remember that the religion of JWs is a lifestyle. Strong friendships have developed. Rejecting the religion amounts to rejecting everything in their lives, including the only assosiates they have, something people will be reluctant to do.

I believe most JWs who have been in the organization for any length of time have doubts (if they are thinking at all), but the control of the religion is enough to over power them. As they get older they will see things more clearly, and at the same time will be more willing and able to take a stand for what is right.

You never know when the seeds will grow, but as you have seen it's best not to push too hard or you will alienate them. It's a balancing act, and it takes patience.

17

Crisis of Conscience now available at Amazon. Sold by Cynthia Franz.

by ScenicViewer in

this book has been out of print for some time, causing used copies to sell for $100 and more.

the price of these new ones is much more reasonable.. hard cover, $30 here.. soft cover, $26 here.. shipping is free, and ray franz' widow, cynthia, is the seller..

ScenicViewer

Paperback CoC in stock again, here.

22

Elder ordered a violent beating, man died. Still not disfellowshipped.

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

ScenicViewer

Thanks for that web address. How could such a severe result happen because of driving a vehicle into a ditch? It's senseless.

12

I've been away, need an Anointed update

by UnConfused in

how have the numbers of the anointed been doing - staying steady or finally declining?

that was always a puzzle to me how that could stay so steady..

ScenicViewer

@00DAD,

I like your list. Much easier to make sense of that way.

12

I've been away, need an Anointed update

by UnConfused in

how have the numbers of the anointed been doing - staying steady or finally declining?

that was always a puzzle to me how that could stay so steady..

ScenicViewer

Here are a few references that the sealing of the 144,000 (little flock) was supposed to end in 1935, and that from then on it was the great crowd that was being gathered.

(W 5-15-2001, p15)
Prior to 1935, an increasing number of those who responded to the Bible’s message and showed zeal in preaching the good news manifested an interest in living forever on the Paradise earth. They had no desire to go to heaven, for God had not given them the hope of heavenly life. Their identifying themselves with the great crowd of other sheep indicated that by 1935 the calling of the 144,000 anointed Christians was virtually complete.—Revelation 7:4.

( W 2-15-1995 p19, par6)
Logically, the calling of the little flock would draw to a close when the number was nearing completion, and the evidence is that the general gathering of these specially blessed ones ended in 1935. However, the other sheep in the time of the end were prophesied to grow to be “a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues.” Since 1935 the general gathering by Jehovah has been of this great crowd, whose hope is everlasting life on a paradise earth.

(W 3-15-1972 p171, par11)
However, especially since 1935 there has been the gathering of God’s larger family, the “great crowd” having the earthly hope, that John saw after the sealing of the 144,000.

12

I've been away, need an Anointed update

by UnConfused in

how have the numbers of the anointed been doing - staying steady or finally declining?

that was always a puzzle to me how that could stay so steady..

ScenicViewer

UnConfused, here is some information that might interest you regarding the number of Memorial partakers.

1) Number of Memorial Partakers since 2000. Shows a definite increase.

2000 - 8661, 2001 - 8730, 2002 - 8760, 2003 - 8565, 2004 - 8570, 2005 - 8524, 2006 - 8758, 2007 - 9105, 2008 - 9986, 2009 - 10857, 2010 - 11202, 2011 - 11824.

2) Watchtower tries to explain away the unexpected increase by saying some of them may be 'emotionally imbalanced.'

(W 8-15-11 p22)
"Memorial partakers. This is the number of baptized individuals who partake of the emblems at the Memorial worldwide. Does this total represent the number of anointed ones on earth? Not necessarily. A number of factors - including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance - might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know. The Governing Body does not keep a list of all partakers, for it does not maintain a global network of anointed ones."

3) This new trend contradicts the Watchtower teaching from the past that the declining number of partakers was proof that we are in the last days.

(W 1-15-2000 p13)
“Six convincing lines of evidence that we are in the last days”… "Sixth, the number of genuine anointed disciples of Christ is dwindling, though some will evidently still be on earth when the great tribulation begins. Most of the remnant are quite elderly, and over the years the number of those who are truly anointed has been getting smaller.”

- and -

(1981 Yearbook, p31)
Over the past seven years, from 1974 to 1980 inclusive, Jehovah’s Witnesses have made steady progress. Their growth is healthy. Only as to Memorial partakers has there been a gradual decline, which is in accord with Scriptural expectations.

As to the date of their sealing, I believe it was 1935, but I don't have that info in front of me. Someone can correct that if it's wrong.

I'm looking for the latest reference that changes the 1935 sealing to an undetermined date. Can't find it for now. Will keep looking, but someone may beat me to it.

62

Finally an Article About Unthank!

by jamiebowers in

http://www.latrobevalleyexpress.com.au/news/local/news/general/private-prosecution-gets-thrown-out-of-court/2468225.aspx?storypage=2private prosecution gets thrown out of court.

by louis nelson.

27 feb, 2012 01:00 am.

ScenicViewer

That came out weird. I see Violia's last comment at the very bottom of the page, below the posting box and list of guidelines.

Is it just me, or do others see it like this too?

Edit: My post is down there too!

34

Steven Unthank is a true HERO

by Shawn10538 in

jw
friends

i just got done listening to hsi interview on six screens.

if any of you have any doubt about his motives and the greatness of his heroic actions, listen to the entire interview.

it is more than 3 hours long and i believe he addresses many concerns some here have had.

ScenicViewer

Cyberjesus, I like the definition you found for hero.

A man...

-- of distinguished courage

-- who is admired for his brave deeds

-- of noble qualities

-- who is regarded as a model or ideal

Steven Unthank is certainly all of the above for taking on the formidable Watchtower Society. Shawn10538, very good observations in the OP.

47

Our door to door activities were a personal ministry and not recognised as representatives or volunteers of the Watchtower Bible And Tract Society

by smiddy in

how do you feel about that ?were you misled (again) after all these years ?

this article from the newspaper in the latrobe area reffering to steven unthanks case is truly disturbing.

its an affront and an insult to any and everyone who has participated in the ministry of jehovah`s witnesses over many, many years.talk about being thrown to the wolves.how low can this organization go in saving face at the expense of those whose loyalty and devotion is discarded for a perceived image.absolutely shocking.

ScenicViewer

From the article,

...door-to-door activities were part of a member's "personal ministry", and 'publishers' were not representatives or volunteers of the Watchtower Society.

Yet, if you guided an interested person to anywhere but the Watchtower organization you would be promptly counseled. And if you insisted you were 'notrepresenting the Society,' and that you were engaging in a 'personal ministry' you would be DF'd for apostasy.