Posts by ScenicViewer

21

I have an original 1920 Millions now living will never die book.

by ko38 in

i just found it in a drawer that hadnt been opened in years.

i got it from my fathers library years ago.

it seems there arent many originals around anymore.

ScenicViewer

SCAN IT AND POST IT HERE AS A PDF!

I'll bet you that Atlantis already has it scanned and posted, somewhere. What he has is unbelievable!

21

I have an original 1920 Millions now living will never die book.

by ko38 in

i just found it in a drawer that hadnt been opened in years.

i got it from my fathers library years ago.

it seems there arent many originals around anymore.

Who Knows The Exact Current Interpretation of "Generation" Please!

by Bubblegum Apotheosis in

would someone please explain the current interpretation of the generation.

this topic is one that is causing alot of confussion and turmoil.

jwn, you.

ScenicViewer

Djeggnog wrote regarding my post,

"I really don't care to hear what you might opine as to what I wrote in response to @BillyEB's post."

I guess you wouldn't, but do you really think that most readers on this forum care to read the giant bag of empty words you post on almost every reply, Sonny boy? (Actually I have no idea how old you are, but you called me Dad at least 3 times , which was woefully off topic, as was the majority of what you said, but I'll respond to your remarks.)

You said this,

"Should I feel a need to ask for the advice of someone that has since 2006 shown a complete disloyalty to God's organization in rejecting both Jehovah's sovereignty and Jesus' lordship..."

Not at all; I have neither rejected, nor shown disloyalty to, anything about Jehovah God or Jesus Christ. However, I have rejected many teachings of Watchtower and now see the organization for what it really is: a human based religion that has had many false teachings, promoted false prophecies, and has shown that it's first love is for self, for it's own success and prosperity as a religion, rather than for God or people.

And you said,

"You may have been a born-in..." No, I'm not born-in.

"...you may have been in association with Jehovah's Witnesses for over 40 years." Yes, baptised in the early 1970s at the age of 20. I came in during the pre-1975 boom.

And you made these remarks, which puzzle me,

"You remind me of those who will leave God's organization to go absolutely nowhere because of having a weak conscience that permitted them to accept a blood transfusion..."

Again, not at all. You didn't exactly say I had accepted a blood transfusion, but that I remind you of someone who did. For the record I have not. It was issues other than blood that brought me to the internet and this forum, but when I read the thread where you were invited to participate in a blood discussion, I have to say my eyes were opened on that topic. It quickly became clear that neither Watchtower nor Djeggnog had a leg to stand on regarding the Society's blood policy. I was truly grateful for that thread and your participation in it. It was an unexpected gift. (That discussion is found here.)

Actually, when I was in Watchtower I was going absolutely nowhere, although in the early years I thought I was.

Dj, more of your remarks,

"...or who would shun their own family members because of the conscience of one or more of the elders in their local congregation, who are not masters over anyone's faith (2 Corinthians 1:24) advise them to do so, or because one or more of the more influential in the congregation, who are utterly devoid of a Bible-trained conscience that can distinguish between right and wrong should strongly suggest, based on something they read in one of our magazines or heard someone say, that you should violate your own Bible trained conscience that informs you is unloving to be shunning members of one's own family just because someone else's conscience thinks doing this to be the right thing for you to be doing."

Huh? As to shunning, I have never had a family member in a position to be shunned, nor would I have ever done so since that is a Watchtower policy that I have never been comfortable with. I have no idea what your remarks about"the conscience of one or more of the elders in their local congregation"or most of the rest of the above quoted paragraph means; it is somewhat incoherent.

However, you did make another remark about shunning,

"...violate your own Bible trained conscience that informs you is unloving to beshunning members of one's own family just because someone else's conscience thinks doing this to be the right thing for you to be doing."

Again, your remarks about me shunning someone, or being like someone who shuns, are not connected with reality.

But you said more,

"Your own conscience is telling you it is unloving for you to not embrace the joy that occasions the birth of one of their children to whom you are related, unloving for you to not attend the funerals of our own family members based on viewing what is only a suggestion designed only to protect your spirituality to be a rule that forces you to treat members of one's own family as if they no longer mattered or were really dead. No, all Jehovah's Witnesses are not exactly the same."

Honestly DJ, I think you have me mixed up with someone else, since I have never 'treated a member of my family as if they no longer mattered or were dead,' nor failed to embrace the joy of the birth of a family member's child, nor failed to attend the funeral of a deceased family member, I am struggling to figure out why you are using that kind of language.

To answer your simple questions,

"...who are you? I mean, you're not @Simon, you're not a mod, you don't run JWN, so who are you to me that I should listen to you?

I am simply one of thousands of people who now see the Watchtower organization for what it really is, and have gained valuable knowledge about the WTS from this forum.

"Are you the Pharaoh?"

No, but I left a religion that acts like Pharaoh.

75

Who Knows The Exact Current Interpretation of "Generation" Please!

by Bubblegum Apotheosis in

would someone please explain the current interpretation of the generation.

this topic is one that is causing alot of confussion and turmoil.

jwn, you.

ScenicViewer

Billy the Ex-Bethelite said,

"I wouldn't be surprised if they redefine generation yet again."

I agree. In less than 20 years Watchtower has had 4 different explanations of what the generation is. One more explanation wouldn't be a surprise at all, especially since the current understanding doesn't appear to be well accepted among many dedicated JWs.

75

Who Knows The Exact Current Interpretation of "Generation" Please!

by Bubblegum Apotheosis in

would someone please explain the current interpretation of the generation.

this topic is one that is causing alot of confussion and turmoil.

jwn, you.

ScenicViewer

@ Djeggnog,

You said to Billy the Ex-Bethelite, after he quoted from the Insight book (published in 1988), using the 2010 Watchtower CD,

"It does occur to me, @BillyEB, that since you have the "2010 WT Lib CD," you could just as well have quoted something more current, such as something from the above-referenced article, which would have been consistent with how Jehovah's Witnesses now understand Matthew 24:34, instead of quoting something that is now useless, obsolete."

If the Society considers information in the Insight volumes to be "something that is now useless, obsolete", then why are these volumes still being published in the Watchtower CD for present day distribution and study? Billy's point was that Watchtower's beliefs are ever changing, and he made that point regarding the past and present meanings of generation; the fact that you now consider the Insight books to be "useless and obsolete" demonstrates that.

Then, Dj, you said to him,

"Are you just trolling me or was there some point you wanted to make? If you are just having fun, that's fine, too, but perhaps you might consider getting yourself a ball."

Honestly Dj, why do you engage in such name calling? Billy is anything but a troll. His counter arguments to your points make a great deal of sense. And your remark that he should get a ball to play with, after admitting he is not a "stupid guy," is just plain insulting. If you are to be taken seriously, why do you make these childish remarks? They are completely off base and suggest you have no better response to a well reasoned post than to fire back with name calling and insults.

I really think you owe Billy an apology, not that I expect you go give him one.

To finish off your remarks to him, you declared yourself to not be a troll. I am a little stunned at some of the things you have said on this site, in this thread and others. I have known Jehovha's Witnesses for over 40 years, and I don't think I have ever met one as insulting as you. You're not a troll? You don't come across as a sincere JW either.

56

Common JW phrases that aren't in the Bible

by biometrics in

i'm interested to know common phrases jehovah's witnesses use, but don't actually apear in the bible (even the nwt).

especially phrases most jw's would assume are in the bible.

e.g.. "paradise earth".

ScenicViewer

- Heavenly Class

- Earthly Class

- All the other "Classes" that Watchtower has used over the decades.

75

Who Knows The Exact Current Interpretation of "Generation" Please!

by Bubblegum Apotheosis in

would someone please explain the current interpretation of the generation.

this topic is one that is causing alot of confussion and turmoil.

jwn, you.

ScenicViewer

@ Amelia Ashton,

Very funny using Who Wants To Be a Millionaire.

"...until further notice it is D!"

Considering all the understandings of the 'generation' Watchtower has had, you would think that even adamant Jehovah's Witnesses would be a little timid in defending the overlapping version. If a new edition of the understanding is released, which is not out of the question, some of them will just as adamantly defend it too.

I wish they could all see their past history without the organizational spin.

16

Reading Crisis of Conscience

by hubert in

jw
friends

i've read it twice, and also "in search of christian freedom".

that's probably why i wasn't "afraid" to read it.. my question, which has bothered me for years is...how do you get a j.w.

to read crisis of conscience?

ScenicViewer

@ Ding,

I like those questions!

16

Reading Crisis of Conscience

by hubert in

jw
friends

i've read it twice, and also "in search of christian freedom".

that's probably why i wasn't "afraid" to read it.. my question, which has bothered me for years is...how do you get a j.w.

to read crisis of conscience?

ScenicViewer

Hubert said, "...I got a "stearn warning".....back off or lose us. So, I backed off. She knows where I'm coming from, unfortunately."

You have planated seeds. It may take some time for them to grow. Getting someone out of a high control religion like Watchtower isn't quick.

In time they may develop doubts, or see something that isn't right in the organization, or otherwise detect a crack in Watchtower. When that time comes they will remember some of the information that you gave them, and will be ready for more.

Remember that the religion of JWs is a lifestyle. Strong friendships have developed. Rejecting the religion amounts to rejecting everything in their lives, including the only assosiates they have, something people will be reluctant to do.

I believe most JWs who have been in the organization for any length of time have doubts (if they are thinking at all), but the control of the religion is enough to over power them. As they get older they will see things more clearly, and at the same time will be more willing and able to take a stand for what is right.

You never know when the seeds will grow, but as you have seen it's best not to push too hard or you will alienate them. It's a balancing act, and it takes patience.

17

Crisis of Conscience now available at Amazon. Sold by Cynthia Franz.

by ScenicViewer in

this book has been out of print for some time, causing used copies to sell for $100 and more.

the price of these new ones is much more reasonable.. hard cover, $30 here.. soft cover, $26 here.. shipping is free, and ray franz' widow, cynthia, is the seller..

ScenicViewer

Paperback CoC in stock again, here.