ScenicViewer

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Posts by ScenicViewer

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  23

  Update on the $4000 day fine - Padron v Watchtower

  by berrygerry in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  from reddit:.

  this was an oral argument to dismiss the $4000/day fine.

  both sides presented their arguments and now the judges will write an opinion (30 to 90 days).

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  ScenicViewer

  The article linked by Acluetofindtheuser points to a huge double standard by Watchtower attorneys.

  In the case of victim Jose Lopez, Jude Joan Lewis imposed terminating sanctions against Watchtower attorneys for refusing to turn over court ordered documents. As a result she awarded a $13.5 million dollar judgement against the Watchtower parties involved.

  Naturally Watchtower appealed, arguing that lesser sanctions should have been tried first, before going to terminating sanctions. The appellate court agreed.

  The linked article explains...
  

  Attorneys for the Watchtower filed an appeal. They argued that Judge Lewis had acted too soon in issuing the $13.5 million in sanctions and instead the trial court should have imposed less severe sanctions. The appellate court agreed. In their ruling, the justices wrote, "We conclude the court erred in ordering terminating sanctions because there was no evidence that lesser sanctions would have failed to obtain Watchtower's compliance with the document production order and because there were other possible sanctions that could have effectively remedied the discovery violation.

  Next up, another case against Watchtower, brought by Osbaldo Padron, another victim of the same molester (Gonzalo Campos) as Jose Lopez. Judge Richard Strauss presides in this case.

  The article continues...

  Then, last year in the Padron case, a different superior court judge, Richard Strauss, followed the appellate court's advice and instead of issuing terminating sanctions imposed $4000 daily sanctions on the Watchtower for refusing to turn over the documents that Padron's attorneys had requested.

  Watchtower attorneys appealed again, saying that daily sanctions, which were an intermediate step compared to the terminating sanctions imposed in the Lopez case - something that they had previously argued for - were out of place.
  The appellate court justices noticed the double standard.

  More from the article...

  On October 11, those attorneys appeared before the Fourth District Appellate Court to argue that the trial court was wrong to issue daily sanctions — exactly what they had argued for in the appellate court Lopez case just months prior.

  
  Justice Richard Huffman did not hide his displeasure that Watchtower's attorneys were arguing against what they had previously supported to the same court.

  
  "You can't have it both ways," Huffman said during argument. "[The Lopez] ruling has come around to bite you and now you're saying, 'not fair, not fair.' You were headed in one direction before and now you’re headed another way. It's a breathtaking position to listen to."

  Yes, regarding Watchtower's argument Justice Huffman said "It's a breathtaking position to listen to."

  It's very pleasing to read that the Courts are catching on to Watchtower's double standards and duplicitous arguments, and are nearing exhaustion listening to them.
  
  
  
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  18

  GB Private Gazebo @ Warwick - Someone Proposed There & It Didn't Go Well...

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  at warwick there is a gazebo overlooking the lake.

  it's a nice peaceful setting.

  well someone had the bright idea they were going to propose while they were at warwick.

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  ScenicViewer

  What does GB stand for?

  Why it stands for a brand new 'Class' of Jehovah's Witness. Those at the top. Those who are elite. Those who are the GODs (Guardians Of the Doctrine) that Jehovah's Witness actually worship.

  They are the Gazebo Brothers!
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  28

  I'm starting a Counter-Watchtower magazine

  by Counter-Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  im starting a counter-watchtower magazine for everyone to give to their jw friends and family or just to give to those that come to your door.

  the first issue is about the history of pyramidology of c.t.

  russel and under the start of rutherford along with some other things like pointing out the fact that no one knows the translators of the nwt or writers of the watchtower, "the two very things relied on to teach you".. its writen in such a way to be very repectful but to make the reader think, and hopefully the light come on.

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  ScenicViewer

  So is it a waste of time to finish and post it?

  I say finish it and post it. I am very curious to see what you have done.

  Will none or your JW friends or family really not take it?

  It's true that many Witnesses will ignore it completely, but it's also true that there are more Witnesses on the fence today than ever before, more information is reaching more Witnesses than ever before (especially via the internet), and more Witnesses are awakening than ever before.

  You mentioned that many of your own Witness friends will read it and I think this is getting to be the state of Witnesses today. The hard-core Witnesses that will never go around the Governing Body's directives are getting to be fewer, and those that want to know more - maybe because they have noticed things and have questions of their own - are growing.

  It isn't the Organization that it once was. As it tries to tighten it's grip more and more it is actually squeezing people free.

  You have my vote to finish it. `

  
  
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  28

  I'm starting a Counter-Watchtower magazine

  by Counter-Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  im starting a counter-watchtower magazine for everyone to give to their jw friends and family or just to give to those that come to your door.

  the first issue is about the history of pyramidology of c.t.

  russel and under the start of rutherford along with some other things like pointing out the fact that no one knows the translators of the nwt or writers of the watchtower, "the two very things relied on to teach you".. its writen in such a way to be very repectful but to make the reader think, and hopefully the light come on.

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  ScenicViewer

  @ScenicViewer Opening line "Im starting" needs an apostrophe, and don't forget "watchtower" requires an upper case.

  Oh yes, that's a good catch on those typos.

  Pls dont dis my speling

  Oh, funny woman!
  
  

  
  
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  28

  I'm starting a Counter-Watchtower magazine

  by Counter-Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  im starting a counter-watchtower magazine for everyone to give to their jw friends and family or just to give to those that come to your door.

  the first issue is about the history of pyramidology of c.t.

  russel and under the start of rutherford along with some other things like pointing out the fact that no one knows the translators of the nwt or writers of the watchtower, "the two very things relied on to teach you".. its writen in such a way to be very repectful but to make the reader think, and hopefully the light come on.

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  ScenicViewer

  If they won't take mine and read it why would they expect me to take theirs?

  That's a good question, and I don't recall Witnesses having a good reply to it. I was never offered literature by someone else, that I recall, but I was always a little embarrassed by the Witness stand of expecting others to accept our literature while we wouldn't take theirs.

  The cover will have Russel and Rutherford looking grand with the title "A Journey in Time Through" old watchtower cover.

  I like the idea of Russell and Rutherford looking grand!
  

  They were good at that.
  
  

  
  
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  28

  I'm starting a Counter-Watchtower magazine

  by Counter-Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  im starting a counter-watchtower magazine for everyone to give to their jw friends and family or just to give to those that come to your door.

  the first issue is about the history of pyramidology of c.t.

  russel and under the start of rutherford along with some other things like pointing out the fact that no one knows the translators of the nwt or writers of the watchtower, "the two very things relied on to teach you".. its writen in such a way to be very repectful but to make the reader think, and hopefully the light come on.

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  ScenicViewer

  Congrats, and I hope you are successful with the new publication.

  How is your command of the English language? At the very least you will need to be grammatically correct with good spelling and punctuation to keep your readers. If you lack these things it will appear the magazine is being written by someone who is poorly educated. Good proof reading is a must.

  Do you notice anything in these remarks...

  - "Its writen in such a way to be very repectful..."

  - "...and hopefully the light come on."

  - "When done I will post a PDF on this site if i can and or image files if i can..."

  - "...or you can email me and ill send you a PDF you can print."
  
  The above 4 lines contain at least 8 typos that need correcting. Anyone can make mistakes, even highly educated people, but before final publication good proofreading, with corrections, needs to happen.

  All the best to you on your project!

  
  
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  23

  youngest baptised.

  by zeb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the youngest you have seen someone baptised?

  i recall seeing a 9 yo girl baptised..

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  ScenicViewer

  I recall an assembly program where an elder being interviewed said he was baptised at 6 years old.

  There are examples reported in Watchtower literature of 6, 8, and 9 year olds being baptised. Here are a few of them....
  

  Baptized at 6
  (W 3-1-1992, p27. Pursuing a Goal Set at Six Years of Age, life story of Sandra Cowan)
  In the summer of 1946, I was baptized at the international convention in Cleveland, Ohio. Although I was only six years of age, I was determined to fulfill my dedication to Jehovah. That summer I served as a pioneer for the first time. I remember one morning placing 40 magazines with people seated at The Plaza in San Diego, California. My being tiny and talkative had a lot to do with it, I’m sure.

  Baptized at 8
  (yb02 p. 110 Curaçao)
  In Bonaire, six-year-old Renzo was invited to the Kingdom Hall and enjoyed it very much. A Bible study was started with him, and from then on he refused to go to the Catholic church....Subsequently, Renzo’s father and mother along with one of Renzo’s Bible students were baptized. Renzo, now eight years old, was baptized at a circuit assembly in Bonaire.

  Baptized at 9
  (w96 10/15 p. 32 "Jehovah Answered My Prayers!")
  Consider, for example, a boy named Joel. He symbolized his dedication to Jehovah and was baptized at nine years of age.

  Baptized in 4th grade (age 9) and 6th grade (age 11)
  (w95 1/1 p. 24 “Out of the Mouth of Babes”)
  During her six years of elementary school, Ayumi arranged for 13 Bible studies. She was baptized while in the fourth grade, and one of her friends with whom she had studied was baptized in the sixth grade.
  
  
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  33

  JW's are S.O.B's

  by James Mixon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i didn't say it, it was the president....

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  ScenicViewer

  I didn't say it, it was the president...

  President Trump? I missed the remark. Can you give more background?
  
  
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  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

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  ScenicViewer

  I hope to stick around long enough to see. (NewYork44M)

  Amen to that.

  However it ends up, I want to see it. I don't believe the Organization can survive and remain the same as it has been for decades, but if it survives in an appreciable way I would like to see what it becomes. In some ways it's already unrecognizable from what it was in the early 1970s.
  
  
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  192

  Question for SBF

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  slimboyfat, it appears that wts is going, gone digital.

  can you show your view what is wts next move after they are completely gone from kings county and settled in warwick?

  - this thread is your if you want it..

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  ScenicViewer

  Lol for god sake they have multiple times predicted the end of the world and gotten past it!!! (Sparky1)

  Absolutely true! Watchtower has managed to weather most storms by shape shifting and re-branding itself, then claiming 'we never said that,' which most of it's followers swallow hook, line and sinker, and the religion goes on. They have been skating by like this for over a hundred years.

  As dreary just said, as long as they have believers in their brand of cult they have survival. (Sparky1)

  True again.

  The one bright sign that exists is that the core of believers that Watchtower now has will likely dwindle in the future. As the old, non-thinking, hard edged Witnesses die off they will need to be replaced by the younger generations, and it appears that there are fewer and fewer young ones sticking with the Organization these days. And in the advanced countries of the world there are precious few being converted from the field. This makes the future look bleak for Watchtower.

  (Thank goodness for the widespread availability of information on Watchtower, mainly via the internet.)

  Watchtower leaders can see this as clearly as anyone. I am in the court that believes the Organization is flush with cash, considering the recent sale of major properties in the past several years (World headquarters, British headquarters, branch facilities, and Kingdom Halls), the raiding of congregation bank accounts, the back door 'tithing' arrangement of congregations making perpetual monthly payments to headquarters, and the serious cut backs in expenditures because of cutting the Special Pioneer, Gilead Missionary, Bethel volunteer, and District Overseer programs.

  So where is the money going? That is anybody's guess, but it has the feel of being socked away somewhere for the future. I honestly believe that Watchtower sees a serious decline coming in future decades and is preparing financially for it.

  What about Lett's cries that the money coming in is less than the money going out? All things considered I don't believe it because there is always a heavy dose of Watchtower spin in what they say. For example there may have been some months where voluntary contributions didn't meet expenses, disregarding other sources of income, but when all sources of income are considered they are financially fine. Lett's presentation was simply to move the faithful to dig deeper and give more.

  I hope that, at least slowly, a significant number of Witnesses will wake up to the constant cries for more cash, become offended by it, and pull back on contributions.

  For Watchtower to crash quickly would be nice, but I think it will be more of a steady decline until it reaches a certain level that it can maintain. It's heyday is past and whatever type of decline happens in the future will be a welcome thing.

  I am as curious as anyone to see what happens over the next 15 years or so.