Posts by ScenicViewer

72

Why No Disfellowshipping Before 1952?

by blondie in

jw
friends

why was there no official arrangement before 1952 to disfellowship people?

was there a different procedure with a different name?

was no one committing disfellowshipping offenses?

ScenicViewer

Christ Alone said,

Cris Sanchez said that he felt like the GB...would have killed him if they had the chance.

That reminds me of a Watchtower remark regarding the extermination of apostates. If not for Bible laws and the laws of the land, they seem to suggest that even family relations should be executed.

(W 11-15-1952 p703-704, QFR)

"We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel...

"Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship."

So, in today's world, Watchtower can take action against apostates only so far, and it sounds like they would actually prefer executing family members, per this remark,

"...forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship".

As though everybody should have the right to execute their own family? Am I missing something here? What do you readers make of that remark?

How sad for them.

72

Why No Disfellowshipping Before 1952?

by blondie in

jw
friends

why was there no official arrangement before 1952 to disfellowship people?

was there a different procedure with a different name?

was no one committing disfellowshipping offenses?

ScenicViewer

Are You Also Excommunicated?

(If this scan is too wide, click the small double arrow icon in the top right of this page, by Options. This may prevent having to scroll back and forth to see the whole scan, depending on the size of your display. Later, click the parallel line icon to restore it to normal. )

(Awake 1-8-1947)

72

Why No Disfellowshipping Before 1952?

by blondie in

jw
friends

why was there no official arrangement before 1952 to disfellowship people?

was there a different procedure with a different name?

was no one committing disfellowshipping offenses?

ScenicViewer

I like Black Sheep's reference because it describes how disfellowshipped people are to be treated - as an outsider - like a 'publican', or as the NWT says, a 'tax collector', and they can't hold Church office. In other words, like a normal person of the world, a non-Christian.

This seems to be much different from the total cutting off and shunning that the Society today promotes, since outsiders are still spoken to and treated politely.

Jesus had no problem approaching Matthew, a tax collector, to be one of his apostles.

How the Watchtower has changed!

72

Why No Disfellowshipping Before 1952?

by blondie in

jw
friends

why was there no official arrangement before 1952 to disfellowship people?

was there a different procedure with a different name?

was no one committing disfellowshipping offenses?

ScenicViewer

Blondie asked,

Does anyone know of some quotes from the WT publications before 1950 regarding disfellowshipping? Here are a couple. I. This article discusses elders that are opposed to “The Finished Mystery,” which is the 7th Vol of “Studies in the Scriptures.” If they are opposed to the book, they are opposed to, and out of harmony with, the Society’s work, and they are breeding discontent and trouble. Even so, should they be disfellowshipped? The article says No! Today the DF'ing would be swift on the charge of apostasy. (W 3-1-1918 p6220 of Reprints) (The quote is split into two parts due to column split in the Reprints) II. This Watchtower reference is critical of Churches that bring "taunts, reproaches, disfellowship and persecution" on any members that dare to express disapproval of the religion. Notice the remark about being held in 'creedal bondage...in prisons against their sense of justice and right.' Over time, Watchtower has become just like the Churches that it continues to condemn. (from Marvin Shilmer's blog, http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/04/cruelty-and-threat-shunning-and.html ) (W 10-1-1930 p301)

26

Teenage son's last WT comment. Major sphincter puckering on my part.

by Open mind in

i thought maybe some of us might enjoy something light-hearted to start the week off.

at dinner last night my teenage son reminded me of the last kh meeting he attended with me about a year ago.

he is a big fan of christopher hitchins and self-identifies as an atheist.

ScenicViewer

Your Thelma and Louise apostate convertible? Now that's funny. Glad you had a safe landing.

30

Do you wish that you were never a witness?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

ScenicViewer

Absolutely. Becoming a JW was a life changing experience, but a change for the negative. I couldn't tell for years how bad it was.

70

Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception

by Indian Larry in

please post any examples of clear cut watchtower deception.

my wife does not believe that the watchtower would purposely decieve her.

i need clearcut examples of deception of by the wtbts.

ScenicViewer

The Organization Has Never Disappointed Us

The Society claims that it has 'never disappointed us .' Here is one Watchtower quote,

(W 7-15-2011 p12 par8 (Simplified English Version))
"The organization has never disappointed us and always gives us an abundance of pure waters of truth from God's Word."

Yet, from it's beginning the Society has attached meaning to dates that turned out to be false, such as 1872, 1874, 1878, 1914, 1925, 1941, 1951, 1975, 2000. Many Watchtower followers were so disappointed by the failures that they left the organization.

One particular disappointment was the failure of the promise that the '1914 Generation would not pass away.' Below are two examples of that promise.

I.

Sadly, every one of the people pictured here is gone now, and this teaching of the '1914 Generation' was abandoned in 1995 and has been replaced a few times since with 'new understandings' of what the Generation is.

II. In the other example, the Society claimed that it's understanding of the 'the peaceful new world' that would come before the '1914 Generation' passed away was 'the Creator's promise.' This appeared in the masthead of the Awake! magazine for many years.

After the failure of Watchtower's promise was more than obvious the Awake! masthead was quietly altered to leave out any mention of the 1914 Generation.

The failure of the '1914 Generation' to see fulfullment is just one of many of Watchtower's failed predictions. Regarding the statement from the 7-15-2011 Watchtower above, can we really say the "the organization has never disappointed us," and that it " always gives us an abundance of pure waters of truth from God's Word"? These claims are clearly misleading.

A Scriptural thought from Prov 13:12 (NWT)

Expectation postponed is making the heart sick, but the thing desired is a tree of life when it does come.

To date all of Watchtower's significant predictions have failed.

Many sincere and thoughtful people find this disappointing.

18

The Disfellowshipping Arrangement, New Book, Hope It Helps

by graysome67 in

hello, i renounced my belief/faith in the watchtower society a few years ago, though i am still a bible believer.

since departing from them, i have studied the bible aptly to try to understand it's true teachings.

i decided to start publishing essays in the hope that my research may help enlighten other disillusioned jw's by seeing alternative viewpoints, or at least pointing them in a direction that would help unlock their minds when studying the bible.

ScenicViewer

The disfellowshipping arrangement is one of the saddest arrangements of one of the saddest religions on earth.

The price is very low. I'll be ordering one and having a look.

70

Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception

by Indian Larry in

please post any examples of clear cut watchtower deception.

my wife does not believe that the watchtower would purposely decieve her.

i need clearcut examples of deception of by the wtbts.

ScenicViewer

Joining an Organization

(From Marvin Shilmer's blog, http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/09/watchtower-bait-switch.html)

I. The Society tells us that there is no organization to join. Here are two examples of this from the literature.

II. A letter from the Society's legal dept says just the opposite. Here is an excerpt followed by the letter.

"From the date of your baptism and your joining the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, you...agreed to submit to the rules and proceedures of the ecclesiastical government of Jehovah's Witnesses." (bold and underlining added.)

18

Media Expose's on WT Abuse Coverups

by Christ Alone in

obviously this has been covered to death, but i haven't seen a comprehensive list of stories produced by the media that have been done on the recent abuse cover ups of the watchtower.

today i saw this news story from australia, and i had never seen it.

i wanted to create a thread that can constantly be updated as the media exposes the practices of the watchtower of covering up abuse.

ScenicViewer

From Canada, here is an excellent Fifth Estate news magazine report.

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XIgz6mmfkU

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cPTijd4NzY

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS-UrESDzN8

Edit: Sorry about that Christ Alone. I temporarily forgot how to embed a link. I went back and fixed it, but you had already embedded them too. You're fast!