This glosses over the point that written policies from WTBTS headquarters tell the BOE report to the lawyers at Bethel first, rather than to the legal authorities, and to do as little as possible to comply with the "mandatory reporting" laws (use a pay phone, don't give a name, etc.) rather than cooperating fully with the investigators. The direct consequence of that written policy was that Kendrick was able to continue his crimes, leading to further harm to plaintiff and other victims. That WTBS policy of negligence is what the case is about, and the jury agreed with the claim.
I think this is the key issue, GLTirebiter. You can't insist that the local BOE discuss the case with Bethel and also insist that the whole thing is confidential, spiritual guidance stuff. How can they hope to maintain any defense related to penitent-minister confidentiality when their policy is the opposite of confidentiality? Still, it's a California jury.Posts by Sulla
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42Excellent news article re Candace Conti's abuse, not for the sensitive or tender-hearted
by yesidid inhttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/15/bauq1p2ph2.dtl.
sadly there are details which may make you heave or want to commit violence..
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40
Why do only xian religions have soo many pedo problems ?
by mP inim not trying to poke fun at any particular religion or show favouritism, but im having a hard time recalling similar repeated scandals in non xian religions.
i cant recall hearing of pedo scandals in islam or buddism.
yes i know that islam perpetrates many other evils like so call honour killings but buddhism seems to be rarely in the news for similar evils ?
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Sulla
OK, so it looks like we've moved from, "How come Christians are pedophiles?" to, "How come the US media don't seem to report pedophilia cases in mosques?"
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Momentum Builds
by stuckinamovement inif possible it would be great to send a copy of the new "shepherding" book and the recent confidentiality letter to contacts in the media.
the society will try to paint this as an isolated case and that it is in no way related to their policies.
the documents mentioned above show that this is not the case.. what is next?
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Sulla
Quendi has it right, I think. Couple observations:
First, I understand the law generally recognizes that conversations between a penitent and his priest or minister are legally protected. Indeed, confessions of criminal activity revealed in Catholic confession can never be disclosed at all, under canon law. Within that context, absolution for some grave sin like murder simply cannot include the requirement to report yourself to the authorities, since that breaks the seal of the confessional.
The situation becomes different when operating in a non-sacramental, but still religious environment. It is interesting to note that the confessed killer of Etan Patz "confessed" to a charismatic prayer group many years ago. They never bothered to notify the authorities because they mistakenly believed they could not do so, based on the context of the confession. Of course, when you have publicly confessed a crime, even if it is to a group involved in prayer, you have lost the penitent-priest protection under law.
So, one question is whether the context of a JW Judicial Committee is like the Catholic sacrament of Reconcilliation and therefore protected, or whether it is more like a public confession in a religious context and not protected. Obviously, it seems more like the latter, especially since the Judicial Committee is charged with finding facts of actual guilt or innocence.
That suggests the instructions given to Elders may be at odds with laws requiring people with knowledge of crimes to report them. Quendi is correct to point out that these committees are hardly confidential: the Org is notified of the particulars of each case, other groups of Elders may be involved, etc. So, the Judicial Committee arrangement itself may create a significant legal risk.
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33
Why did Lazarus Pay for his sins twice?
by criticalwitness inaccording to j dub doc the wages sins pays is death meaning to them death covers your debt of sin when lazarus died did he not pay his debt?
so when jesus resctd him why did he die again?
when jesus brought him back did he creat or recreat an imperfect being on the sinful road to destruction?
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Sulla
Interesting to see that OldGenerationDude has thoroughly answered this question twice now, but nobody seems to notice.
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Kendrick in good standing in Oakley Congregation ... wow !
by RubaDub incan anyone imagine the what the elders in his current congregation must be going through ?!.
in their ideal world, they would have df'd him once they knew there would be a trial so they could play the card "he's not one of jw's.
" but since it occurred in a different congregation and he was already punished, there is little they can currently do.. wow, imagine the buzz in the kh when the info started leaking out.
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Sulla
Well, let me ask a serious question about this. The JWs establish a judicial committee to work through these sorts of things. Once they've worked through it and decided the punnishment (or not), then wouldn't he be a JW in good standing? I admit I'm not sure how this specific and particular thing is an issue. Please note, there is plenty else here to complain about; I'm asking about just this part.
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45
Jesus ,the son of GOD,on earth as a man,never wrote down his words of wisdom,message of salvation,only talked to a minority group,majority of what he preached was never recorded by observers,?
by smiddy indoesn`t this sound a little bit odd to you ?
according to christendom/jehovah`s witnesses in particular , the greatest man who ever lived,had the means at his disposal,to write down everything he had to say for the benefit of all mankind ,jew and gentile,and he never availed himself of this priveledge .rather most of what he had to say, according to the bible, was lost,no one recorded all he spoke ..he was quite content to leave it up to a few, who would put his words to pen,many of which were not eyewitness accounts to his deeds.,but received the information secon-hand.
if the almighty god jehovah and his son jesus christ were in anyway serious, wouldn`t they have made this" so important" message available to all mankind ?
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Sulla
I see this complaint a lot, mP, and it is always offered up as if the discovery of three synoptic gospels is some sort of amazing discovery. When they were selected, everybody knew they were told from a very similar point of view, but with a slightly different emphasis for the different audience intended. The simple fact is that the synoptics are all included in the canon simply because the Church found they were all important in order to convey the message more completely. Not clear why that is supposed to be some sort of joke.
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45
Jesus ,the son of GOD,on earth as a man,never wrote down his words of wisdom,message of salvation,only talked to a minority group,majority of what he preached was never recorded by observers,?
by smiddy indoesn`t this sound a little bit odd to you ?
according to christendom/jehovah`s witnesses in particular , the greatest man who ever lived,had the means at his disposal,to write down everything he had to say for the benefit of all mankind ,jew and gentile,and he never availed himself of this priveledge .rather most of what he had to say, according to the bible, was lost,no one recorded all he spoke ..he was quite content to leave it up to a few, who would put his words to pen,many of which were not eyewitness accounts to his deeds.,but received the information secon-hand.
if the almighty god jehovah and his son jesus christ were in anyway serious, wouldn`t they have made this" so important" message available to all mankind ?
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Sulla
Well, we could say:
Peter,
Linus,
Cletus,
Clement,
is a pretty good start.
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Bill Bowen Just Posted This on Facebook Moments Ago
by jamiebowers injane doe vs the watch tower in the oakland, ca case was awarded $20 million in punitive damages..
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Sulla
27% of $20M, though. Around $7M total, damages plus punitive.
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Jesus ,the son of GOD,on earth as a man,never wrote down his words of wisdom,message of salvation,only talked to a minority group,majority of what he preached was never recorded by observers,?
by smiddy indoesn`t this sound a little bit odd to you ?
according to christendom/jehovah`s witnesses in particular , the greatest man who ever lived,had the means at his disposal,to write down everything he had to say for the benefit of all mankind ,jew and gentile,and he never availed himself of this priveledge .rather most of what he had to say, according to the bible, was lost,no one recorded all he spoke ..he was quite content to leave it up to a few, who would put his words to pen,many of which were not eyewitness accounts to his deeds.,but received the information secon-hand.
if the almighty god jehovah and his son jesus christ were in anyway serious, wouldn`t they have made this" so important" message available to all mankind ?
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Sulla
Interesting observation, Diest. If only there was someting with a direct connection to the person of Jesus himself that survived since then...
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361
Watchtower found guilty ruled to pay 7 million to 1 victim? wow
by yourmomma inis this recent?
http://www.silentlambs.org/oaklandlawsuit.htm.
i havent seen anyone post about it, the link has a pdf on it of the court documents, and it looks like the stamp is from 5/12 but its blurry.. .
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Sulla
Shouldn't be a big deal in the local congregation. Aren't expense reports generally approved by simple voice vote at the Service meeting?