Sulla

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Posts by Sulla

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  10

  A "reduction of rules" is it the only way the WTBS can eliminate culpability?

  by darthfader in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how best can the wtbs alter it's rules or eliminate "enforcement" by making everything a "conscience matter"?.

  what do you think is the likely outcome?.

  cheers!.

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  Sulla

  Good Christ! 135 meg! Thanks, cedars.
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  75

  From a currently serving elder: an open letter to the organization

  by elderelite in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there are 1000's who who hate this religion who are stuck ....inside it.

  we work against you, we use our position to convince and sway those that still drink your koolaid.

  we feed info to authorities who chase you, we warn off potiential converts by directing them to the real truth.

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  Sulla

  Nothing, I'm afraid. There aren't enough of you to matter: regular Elders, in their incomeptence, do just about as much damage as you do. Your kids won't grow up to be in the organization? Big deal: retention even among true believers is very low. You take literature and throw it away? So what: nobody gets converted by door-to-door work anyway. You get some happy endings? Who doesn't? Warn off potential converts, do you? If only google existed to do the same thing!

  You're not fighting the power more effectively than the power is fighting itself. Or did you cost the Society $20M lately?
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  63

  What Some Loyal JW's Are Saying About The Oakland Case.

  by Bangalore in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  form the pro-jw site jwtalk.

  this is such a ronald mcdonald court case.

  i can't believe what i am reading.. lie: "the lawsuit alleged that watchtower had a policy that instructed elders in its jehovah's witnesses congregations to keep reports of child sex abusers within the religious group secret to avoid lawsuits.".

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  Sulla

  I had hopes when this story broke that we'd see the first buds of a "Watchtower Spring" opening, that many rank-and-file Witnesses would come to their senses and start challenging the WTS and its corrupt and self-serving Governing Body.

  Oh, Quendi, bless your heart! But there was never one chance in hell that this would matter a bit to them! You cannot underestimate JWs. It's like when I was growing up and going to Bob's Big Boy for supper. I always thought I could prepare myself for how awful it was going to be, but it was always worse than I thought. Same thing.
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  14

  Question for Barbara Anderson

  by Dagney in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  as i've mentioned before, your contribution in the dateline program was it for me and the wbts.

  i listened to almost the whole program last night and your insights are much appreciated.. my question is do we know how many settlements the wbts has made in the area of child abuse?

  tia .

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  Sulla

  Do we know what the main line of WT defense was in this trial? Were they arguing that they were not actually negligent, or were they making a larger confidentiality argument?
• 
  10

  A "reduction of rules" is it the only way the WTBS can eliminate culpability?

  by darthfader in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how best can the wtbs alter it's rules or eliminate "enforcement" by making everything a "conscience matter"?.

  what do you think is the likely outcome?.

  cheers!.

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  3. 
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  Sulla

  cedars, do you know where the trial transcripts can be found? I've read through some of the motions filed in the case, but think the transcripts would be interesting to read. Thanks very much.
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  17

  Mr. McCabe aka McCabe Law (representing WBTS)...

  by iamwhoiam in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  you know...as a jdub...your only allowed to engage in higher education if you plan on being an attourney for the wbts.. http://www.mccabelaw.net/our_practice.html.

  ...of course...i could be wrong, as i usually am..

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  Sulla

  Meanwhile, thousands of bright young JWs, whose vocations should have been medicine, law, business, etc., spent their prime educational years in full-time service learning no particular marketable skills. Turns out that, even among those who wish to remain JWs, actually following the JW advice is a sucker's bet.
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  33

  Why did Lazarus Pay for his sins twice?

  by criticalwitness in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to j dub doc the wages sins pays is death meaning to them death covers your debt of sin when lazarus died did he not pay his debt?

  so when jesus resctd him why did he die again?

  when jesus brought him back did he creat or recreat an imperfect being on the sinful road to destruction?

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  Sulla

  mP, you are really a bit of a mess, aren't you?
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  42

  Excellent news article re Candace Conti's abuse, not for the sensitive or tender-hearted

  by yesidid in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/15/bauq1p2ph2.dtl.

  sadly there are details which may make you heave or want to commit violence..

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  Sulla

  This glosses over the point that written policies from WTBTS headquarters tell the BOE report to the lawyers at Bethel first, rather than to the legal authorities, and to do as little as possible to comply with the "mandatory reporting" laws (use a pay phone, don't give a name, etc.) rather than cooperating fully with the investigators. The direct consequence of that written policy was that Kendrick was able to continue his crimes, leading to further harm to plaintiff and other victims. That WTBS policy of negligence is what the case is about, and the jury agreed with the claim.

  I think this is the key issue, GLTirebiter. You can't insist that the local BOE discuss the case with Bethel and also insist that the whole thing is confidential, spiritual guidance stuff. How can they hope to maintain any defense related to penitent-minister confidentiality when their policy is the opposite of confidentiality? Still, it's a California jury.
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  40

  Why do only xian religions have soo many pedo problems ?

  by mP in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  im not trying to poke fun at any particular religion or show favouritism, but im having a hard time recalling similar repeated scandals in non xian religions.

  i cant recall hearing of pedo scandals in islam or buddism.

  yes i know that islam perpetrates many other evils like so call honour killings but buddhism seems to be rarely in the news for similar evils ?

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  Sulla

  OK, so it looks like we've moved from, "How come Christians are pedophiles?" to, "How come the US media don't seem to report pedophilia cases in mosques?"
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  18

  Momentum Builds

  by stuckinamovement in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if possible it would be great to send a copy of the new "shepherding" book and the recent confidentiality letter to contacts in the media.

  the society will try to paint this as an isolated case and that it is in no way related to their policies.

  the documents mentioned above show that this is not the case.. what is next?

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  Sulla

  Quendi has it right, I think. Couple observations:

  First, I understand the law generally recognizes that conversations between a penitent and his priest or minister are legally protected. Indeed, confessions of criminal activity revealed in Catholic confession can never be disclosed at all, under canon law. Within that context, absolution for some grave sin like murder simply cannot include the requirement to report yourself to the authorities, since that breaks the seal of the confessional.

  The situation becomes different when operating in a non-sacramental, but still religious environment. It is interesting to note that the confessed killer of Etan Patz "confessed" to a charismatic prayer group many years ago. They never bothered to notify the authorities because they mistakenly believed they could not do so, based on the context of the confession. Of course, when you have publicly confessed a crime, even if it is to a group involved in prayer, you have lost the penitent-priest protection under law.

  So, one question is whether the context of a JW Judicial Committee is like the Catholic sacrament of Reconcilliation and therefore protected, or whether it is more like a public confession in a religious context and not protected. Obviously, it seems more like the latter, especially since the Judicial Committee is charged with finding facts of actual guilt or innocence.

  That suggests the instructions given to Elders may be at odds with laws requiring people with knowledge of crimes to report them. Quendi is correct to point out that these committees are hardly confidential: the Org is notified of the particulars of each case, other groups of Elders may be involved, etc. So, the Judicial Committee arrangement itself may create a significant legal risk.