Binadub, you'd be better off having this conversation with your dog. About the same ability to engage the conversation, but the dog will at least listen to what you have to say.
Posts by Sulla
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306I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!
by minimus inmy italian friend loves going to the "feasts" that occur in italy, boston or nyc.
these feasts feature a "saint" with dollar bills pinned around her and they parade the saint in a long procession and chant "viva (whomever)".
they are quite serious about this and are proud to talk about the past generations of observers who appreciated the events.
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306
I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!
by minimus inmy italian friend loves going to the "feasts" that occur in italy, boston or nyc.
these feasts feature a "saint" with dollar bills pinned around her and they parade the saint in a long procession and chant "viva (whomever)".
they are quite serious about this and are proud to talk about the past generations of observers who appreciated the events.
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Sulla
Ep, you flatter yourself. So ewwy. If you wanted a real conversation, you could have one. You prefer your pointless jibberjabberslobberhaterspeach. And good for you -- it suits you perfectly.
You with all your, "you may go now," talk. Silly boy. "Stalin's genocide had nuthin' to do with atheism, I tells ya! Nuttin'!"
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306
I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!
by minimus inmy italian friend loves going to the "feasts" that occur in italy, boston or nyc.
these feasts feature a "saint" with dollar bills pinned around her and they parade the saint in a long procession and chant "viva (whomever)".
they are quite serious about this and are proud to talk about the past generations of observers who appreciated the events.
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Sulla
'member what I said before, EP? Q to tha E to tha fuckin' D, bizzach!
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Jehovah's Christian Witnesses
by LoisLane looking for Superman inhow much do you want to bet, that in the next year or two, the governing body will get "new light" and change their name to jehovah's christian witnesses"?.
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Sulla
OK, but I'm still interested in a bet? Do we have anyone on the other side willing to make a wager?
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20
Jehovah's Christian Witnesses
by LoisLane looking for Superman inhow much do you want to bet, that in the next year or two, the governing body will get "new light" and change their name to jehovah's christian witnesses"?.
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Sulla
I'll take the "No," side and bet $100.
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52
Is going from the JWs to another Religion just a "Rebound?"
by braincleaned in*a rebound is the need to fill a void with something we partly had confort in; whether in romance or faith.... .
i posted the following in another thread, and i welcome your feedback - especially if you disagree with my logic.
"as per one of my notes, my biggest fear is my, our, natural tendency for confirmation bias.
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Sulla
And who better to ask about truth than someone who clearly understands that those other ancient stories are simply myths (Epic of Gilgamesh) whereas ONLY ONE OTHER (Genesis) is truly a historical record of events?
If you know someone from whom you can purchase a clue, do so now, please. When did I say Genesis was an historical record of events? Well, dummy, never. Because it isn't an historical record.
Moron.
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306
I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!
by minimus inmy italian friend loves going to the "feasts" that occur in italy, boston or nyc.
these feasts feature a "saint" with dollar bills pinned around her and they parade the saint in a long procession and chant "viva (whomever)".
they are quite serious about this and are proud to talk about the past generations of observers who appreciated the events.
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Sulla
How are you going to throw " National Socialism's paganism" into the mix with Atheists? Weren't Facists/Nazis and Communits enemies? Didn't the Catholics lend support toe the National Socialists? Quit reaching.
{sigh}. There is a long history of National Socialist antagonism toward the Catholics, beginning with the assault on Catholic schools and ending with guys like Max Kolbe getting killed. I grabbed pagans because they tend to get pretty good treatment here vis-a-vis the idea of Catholic violence in a way similar to the atheists.
None of the Atheist you have met are supporting the ideas of a Central State Communism.
None of the Catholics you have met support burning heretics at the stake, but that doesn't seem to cut us much of a break, does it?
If you include Pol Pot who was just was anti-science as he was anti-religion, then I can include any religious group that has ever appeared.
Not so much, and you know it. The Khmer Rouge were against religion -- atheists. Catholics are not against science. Did you say something about reaching?
NC, perhaps I have misundrstood you. You did say some, " have simply come to a different conclusion than you have when looking at your churche's long and bloody history." That position would seem to suggest that the crude "body count" exercise has some bearing on the matter. Now, you say it doesn't matter. So, help a brother out: does it matter or not?
As for whether atheists need to "own" Stalin or the Gang of Four, it seems quite the dodge to claim no organizational affiliation. These guys were atheists, living an authentic atheist life in accord with good atheist principles. It is those principles you endorse, so how to you get to skip out?
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306
I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!
by minimus inmy italian friend loves going to the "feasts" that occur in italy, boston or nyc.
these feasts feature a "saint" with dollar bills pinned around her and they parade the saint in a long procession and chant "viva (whomever)".
they are quite serious about this and are proud to talk about the past generations of observers who appreciated the events.
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Sulla
NC, I think we may view the sin of hypocricy in a different way. I think it is a very small sort of sin, one that everybody is guilty of -- especially those who claim to hate it most. So, sure, Christians are hypocrites. So is everybody else. I don't think it's a big deal.
So the issue for me comes in when Christians pretend that they have better morals and were a force for good in the world. They don't, and they weren't. Individuals certainly did good things, but the institutions themselves drove a lot of dodgy stuff.
The institutions certainly did some dodgy stuff, so did the people. Both also did some really positive stuff, which I think you are in the habit of undervaluing. Establishing hopsitals and schools is a pretty big deal, for example; these were things the religious institutions did long before any government figured it should bother with that sort of thing. Just an example.
Atheists have also done some pretty bad things, but they weren't driven by atheism, because atheism has no organization or rules. It's not a code of conduct, it is simply a description of how a person views gods. That doesn't prevent an atheist from picking up another ideology that drives them. But atheism has no pope or GB to direct them---they are on their own.
Weren't "driven" by atheism? Not sure I can agree. I certainly agree that atheism doesn't have a set of requirements requiring or prescribing various actions. But there is a philosophical core within atheism that is problematic for this idea.
I think what we actually have here is not a left over JW thing, but people who've had to employ a great deal of critical thinking to escape a cult, but did not turn it off when it came to other religions. As I said, some people may come to different conclusions when they look at a religion's history, and they may be able to reconcile it all with their current belief. But I don't think dismissing valid criticism as just some left over JW thingy is legitimate. They have simply come to a different conclusion than you have when looking at your churche's long and bloody history.
I hear ya. I disagree, sorta. For the following reasons:
Atheism's long and bloody history is longer and bloodier. The Cultural Revolution, the genocide in the Vendee, the starvation of the Ukranians, etc., etc., etc. Throw in National Socialism's paganism, and the score gets pretty lopsided. I've gotta own Bloody Mary, you gotta own Pol Pot. Fair's fair.
So, if you are really looking at long bloody history and choosing between atheism and Catholicism, it seems to me you only get one answer. Atheist's are, I suppose, not acting hypocritically; maybe that counts for something.
I think you may greatly overestimate the degree to which critical thinking plays a role in people leaving the JWs. If you look at the de-conversion stories, they almost always involve some mistreatment at the hands of the JWs. You and I are exceptions to this general rule, it seems. Even if we weren't exceptions to the rule, is it really a great analytical achievement to figure out the JWs are nonsense? I don't think it is.
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306
I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!
by minimus inmy italian friend loves going to the "feasts" that occur in italy, boston or nyc.
these feasts feature a "saint" with dollar bills pinned around her and they parade the saint in a long procession and chant "viva (whomever)".
they are quite serious about this and are proud to talk about the past generations of observers who appreciated the events.
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Sulla
Still Thinking, you are greatly over-loading my viewpoint. What I think is that several attitudes or viewpoints seem to remain (on average, or in higher than what would be expected against a random sample in the population) with JWs after they leave the religion. I have said before that some key attributes of JWs are a Manichean viewpoint and utopianism. JWs tend to see everything as a battle of evil against good and miss the (Catholic?) inisight that we all are sinners and, therefore, broken in profound ways. xJWs seem very often (in my anecdotal observation, which is why I have an hypothesis rather than the axioms I joke about) to hold these attitudes even after they have rejected the specific claims of the JWs.
So, here is sorta what I mean: JWs claim they are the True Church, chosen by God a hundred years ago. Why were they chosen? Not because they were teaching correctly, but because they alone of all the people of the world were attempting to break away from the evils of apostate Christianity. Apostate Christianity, for 2,000 years, had been teaching anti-Christianity because they were corrupt, selfish, greedy, or otherwise bad people. The only solution is to root it out completely, since there is nothing at all that can be salvaged.
Now, this attitude is not exclusive to JWs, it shows up in lots of other places. But I suggest that JW-ism pulls from people with these atitudes; converts to JW-ism are more likely than average to hold these viewpoints and find the JW solution to them to be compelling. When thay leave the JWs, these attitudes tend not to change, I think.
But, and to finally get to the point, this viewpoint is the opposite of most old ways of thinking about the human condition. A "tragic" or Catholic approach tends to think of corruption or selfishness as a thing that everyone is susceptible to. You, me, all of us are liable to act in bad ways when we get the chance; we are not better than anyone else. What we can hope to do is develop virtue, but that's an uneven process. There aren't any solutions, and there isn't really much difference between us and people who do bad things.
The JW viewpoint tends to break the world into two groups: JWs and assholes. XJWs tend to do the same thing, just with a different identification of the good guys.
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52
Is going from the JWs to another Religion just a "Rebound?"
by braincleaned in*a rebound is the need to fill a void with something we partly had confort in; whether in romance or faith.... .
i posted the following in another thread, and i welcome your feedback - especially if you disagree with my logic.
"as per one of my notes, my biggest fear is my, our, natural tendency for confirmation bias.
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Sulla
I have to call 'em like I see 'em. Diest isn't an idiot and he disagrees with me all the time. Can you see the difference between you two? Smarts-wise, I mean?