I think I agree with Satanus. Is there anything the JWs say that any serious theologian bothers to interact with?
Posts by Sulla
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17Is the Watchtower the most "dumbed down" Christian theology?
by cantleave inwhen i was a witness i used to think that the wt's interpretation of ezekiel daniel and revelation was quite didactic and intellectually robust.. then i left and started reading the works of real christian theologians and scholars.
i was amazed at how superficial and vacuous the watchtower theology was in comparison.. since i have left it would seem the standard of scholarly insight has dropped to a new low.
i am sure that this is because for generations the message has been, "don't go to college...." and a culture of mediocrity dominates, resulting in an uneducated leadership creating doctrine.
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43
Markan priority and the synoptic gospels
by 88JM inthis might be a question for leolaia, but i noticed in researching the gospel of mark this week that the dates the wtbts gives for the writing of the other synoptic gospels does not seem to agree with most new testament scholars.. the all scripture book gives the following dates:.
matthew: writing completed: c. 41 c.e.mark: writing completed: c. 6065 c.e.luke: writing completed: c. 5658 c.e.this would put mark as the last of the three synoptic gospels to be written, and therefore the wtbts does not adhere to the markan priority hypothesis.. wikipedia states that: "the theory of markan priority is today accepted by the majority of new testament scholars".. .
is there a good reason why the wtbts dates the synoptic gospels in that order?how can they date matthew and luke so early?is it merely because the wtbts rejects the possibility of a "q" source, and possibly even the idea of collusion between the writers altogether?or is it because many scholars put the writings of luke and matthew after the destruction of jerusalem, meaning the "prophecies" of destruction became historical accounts of past events by the time they were written?
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Sulla
Dammit, mP, read the text. "You are looking for Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified: he has risen, he is not here."
C'mon, man!
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Markan priority and the synoptic gospels
by 88JM inthis might be a question for leolaia, but i noticed in researching the gospel of mark this week that the dates the wtbts gives for the writing of the other synoptic gospels does not seem to agree with most new testament scholars.. the all scripture book gives the following dates:.
matthew: writing completed: c. 41 c.e.mark: writing completed: c. 6065 c.e.luke: writing completed: c. 5658 c.e.this would put mark as the last of the three synoptic gospels to be written, and therefore the wtbts does not adhere to the markan priority hypothesis.. wikipedia states that: "the theory of markan priority is today accepted by the majority of new testament scholars".. .
is there a good reason why the wtbts dates the synoptic gospels in that order?how can they date matthew and luke so early?is it merely because the wtbts rejects the possibility of a "q" source, and possibly even the idea of collusion between the writers altogether?or is it because many scholars put the writings of luke and matthew after the destruction of jerusalem, meaning the "prophecies" of destruction became historical accounts of past events by the time they were written?
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Sulla
MP, Mark has an empty tomb and an angel telling Magdelene and the mother of James that he is risen and to tell the others. That's all before 16:9. So, you're mistaken. There are those additional paragraphs that seem to be added on, though even these are pretty cursory compared to the other gospels.
Are we to believe if the same events happened today, biographers(lets call them that) would forget to write about some dude coming back from the dead.
Applying the term "biographers" to the gospel writers is a mistake. But there is a large modern literature that discusses what the gospels are attempting to accomplish, which is not biography the way we understand it today. In any case, as is widely-known, the constant assertion of the earliest Christians was that Jesus was raised. Consult Corinthians for a version of a primitive creed in which Paul outlines how his constant teaching -- which he learned from others -- is that Jesus died for everybody, was raised from the dead, appeared to a bunch of people, etc.
The earliest Christian liturgy, celebrated on the day of Resurrection, is little more than a re-capitulation of this claim.
So Christians were never anything except a resurrection people. In this environment, yeah, it is reasonable that you write a little history explaining exactly who is is whom we claim is risen. The post-resurrection events, to Mark, not being particularly important to either his story or to his theological point.
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College Degree Required
by respectful_observer ini don't anticipate seeing this article, or its supporting data, referenced in any wt publications anytime soon.... ....................................... http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/business/college-degree-required-by-increasing-number-of-companies.html?hpw&_r=0.
a few excerpts:.
the college degree is becoming the new high school diploma: the new minimum requirement, albeit an expensive one, for getting even the lowest-level job.. like other employers across the country, the firm hires only people with a bachelors degree, even for jobs that do not require college-level skills.
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Sulla
There is no doubt that people with no more than HS or "some college" have been getting fucking killed in the job market for a long time now. That said, the education market is a bubble: really, the guy who gets the coffee has a degree? Probably has shitload of debt, too.
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Does the Bible actually condemn Homosexuality for Chrisitans anywhere ?
by Phizzy ini ask the question because i read a very persuasive article on-line that showed that the apostle paul was not referring to mere homosexual practice in his words in his letters, but to temple prostitution etc, so he was condemning idolatry, not being homosexual per se.. the basic usage of the word that some translations render as "homosexual" and the n.w.t, falling in to the etymology trap, renders "men who lie with men" means temple prostitute.
the account of sodom and gomorrah has been shown on here to be concerned with lack of hospitality being the sin, mistreatment of strangers etc, still a no- no in desert communities.
the whole story may well be a folk story or myth anyway, but it is interesting to see that the sexual acts themselves are not the main thrust (sorry) of yahweh's anger.. the law (leviticus?
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Sulla
I've heard the idea that Paul was talking about prostitution and not homosexual acts, per se. I don't find the idea compelling, given, for example, the earlier conflicts over circumcision. Seems at odds with the way the letters read to me.
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Markan priority and the synoptic gospels
by 88JM inthis might be a question for leolaia, but i noticed in researching the gospel of mark this week that the dates the wtbts gives for the writing of the other synoptic gospels does not seem to agree with most new testament scholars.. the all scripture book gives the following dates:.
matthew: writing completed: c. 41 c.e.mark: writing completed: c. 6065 c.e.luke: writing completed: c. 5658 c.e.this would put mark as the last of the three synoptic gospels to be written, and therefore the wtbts does not adhere to the markan priority hypothesis.. wikipedia states that: "the theory of markan priority is today accepted by the majority of new testament scholars".. .
is there a good reason why the wtbts dates the synoptic gospels in that order?how can they date matthew and luke so early?is it merely because the wtbts rejects the possibility of a "q" source, and possibly even the idea of collusion between the writers altogether?or is it because many scholars put the writings of luke and matthew after the destruction of jerusalem, meaning the "prophecies" of destruction became historical accounts of past events by the time they were written?
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Sulla
Well, Mark is not unaware of the resurrection, though you are correct insofar as you note the account in Mark is quite cursory.
As for the OP, I think those are good questions. It is important to note that the JWs are extremely poor students of the gospel acocunts -- even the smart JWs are unaware of the theological and other differences between John and the synoptics. I suspect a general opposition to Q has something to do with it, as you suggest. But I don't know the precise reasons for those dates -- even conservative scholars don't set them that early.
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Ireland apologizes to women of Catholic laundries
by designs inthe catholic laundries known as the magdelene laundries were where thousands of women were kept incarcerated as 'prostitutes' although very few actually were.
most of the thousands of women were from broken homes and homeless.. ireland has conducted 5 formal investigations into these catholic run houses.
these women were sentenced to these labor and boarding houses by the state and courts.
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Sulla
Hmmm. Or, maybe not so much...
with link to the 1,000(!) page study:
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/MagdalenRpt2013
From the Irish Times:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2013/0209/1224329839729.html
“We have always said the one-size-fits-all model of survivor does not apply,” says James M Smith, a leading researcher on the laundries and a member of the Justice for Magdalenes advisory committee.
Of Mullan’s film, he says: “I have said then and since, no survivor I have spoken to has alluded to women suffering sexual abuse in the Magdalene laundries. They were predominantly female and run by female religious; sexual abuse was endemic in male institutions.”
He notes survivors have also denied that women were stripped naked and examined by nuns, as depicted in The Magdalene Sisters. However, the use of hair cutting as a punishment is confirmed by a set of laundry “house rules” that Dr Smith discovered.
This document is included in the McAleese report, along with testimony of three women who said they had either experienced or seen hair-cutting as a punishment. Head-shaving was reported only once, however, in a case of head lice.
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Homeschooling VS public/private schooling
by PSacramento ini was wondering on the views about homeschooling vs public/private scholling.. thoughts?.
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Sulla
The vast majority that I have seen homeschool their kids have been unsuccessful and I attribute it to the reasons why they chose to homeschool.
Source? Or is it just the ones you have personal experience with?
I home schooled my daughter [Gojira101] at a teacher's recommendation because the schools in AZ are so bad that she wouldn't get the attention she needed because she was functionally illiterate [Slight dyslexia and comprehension issues] until age 9.
Exactly what I mean by catastrophe. There is no reason at all that publicly funded schools should have a problem with this sort of mild problem. Instead, they know they can't cut it. Bullshit. Lavish funding and can't even handle this.
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Homeschooling VS public/private schooling
by PSacramento ini was wondering on the views about homeschooling vs public/private scholling.. thoughts?.
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Sulla
But don't we think the government school system is a catastrophe? I mean, increasing funding all the time, non-increasing educational performance all the time. Suggests something ain't working, yeah?
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If there is a God why didn't he sign our DNA
by scotoma intodays scientists can and do insert their trademark into dna.. why couldn't jehovah anticipate scientists learning this technique and stumbling across a strand that says "human by yhwh"?.
that would have answered a lot of questions.. he could have even included a model number human2.0.
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Sulla
I hope believers don't dismiss this as a frivolous question. It would have been so easy for god to write anything in our DNA.
Yes, or on the moon. How easy would it be to arrange for a sequence of meteor strikes in a pattern on the moon? Very, I'd think. He could even wait until after Easter and write, "He is Risen!" or something.
Or, hell, he could have turned stones into bread. Why not?