Agree with everyone that this was a great analysis. It is interesting that my thinking used to be that I could never remember what the conventions were about. Turns out, they were always about the same thing and I just never noticed. They are serious about "inculcating," which is a word we used to use without necessarily looking up. Basically: pound the message in.
Posts by Sulla
-
99Thought Reform and the Psychology of the 'Safeguard Your Heart!' 2012 Convention
by breakfast of champions into make attendance at my second district convention "mentally out" both a little more bearable and meaningful, i decided to take some notes of key points as if i were an outsider studying the thought reform methods of jehovah's witnesses.
at first, i was only going to share these notes with my therapist, but inspired by the "parsing the watchtower double-speak" thread, i figured i would share my amateur analysis with everyone.
here are some of the highlights:.
-
-
-
46
The UN Debacle, Disfellowshipping Policies, Child Abuse Cases---Will ANYTHING Ever Sway A JW From "The Truth"?
by minimus ini wonder..
-
-
Sulla
Quendi, my view on whether the JWs are a cult is something of a minority viewpoint. Lots of friends who are XJWs disagree with me on this point, and I can see both sides. For me, a cult involves a charismatic leader and a certain degree of impairment among the followers.
The leaders of the JWs have a lot of control, but their control is not based on their personal charisma. When it comes to impairment, it's a closer call. But for me, it seems more likely that the JWs offer the sorts of benefits to people that those people feel are worth the price of admission. Shunning is very characteristic of cults, I grant you, but it is practiced across millions of people. Can you brainwash millions? I don't know.
I think my real reason is that I don't want to underestimate the degree of volition that is involved. For example, my real break began when my daughter was born: I knew immediately that I would never obey the blood policy. But if that was a choice, so was the opposite choice: my parents sincerely would prefer to see me dead rather than alive with a transfusion. That's a fully-informed choice, it seems to me. It's hard to understand, but that doen't necessarily mean it isn't free. The ancient Spartan women would prefer to see their sons dead and alive and having failed in battle: return with your shield or on it, they said. There are plenty of cultural, religious, social reasons why they thought this way, but I don't think that makes it an un-free choice.
I agree that it often takes courage and humility to leave the JWs. Sometimes, depending on the case, it takes rage and self-will. I have long thought that the central driving factor of the JW outlook is absurd pride -- in all the world, only their interpretive key unlocks the secret code of scripture, which makes them better people. I suggest that some leave the JWs because their pride is so large, even the JWs can't contain it. Having more than one path out -- humility vs. pride -- is suggestive to my thinking.
-
-
-
Sulla
how in hell does anyone say that without cracking himself up?
-
46
The UN Debacle, Disfellowshipping Policies, Child Abuse Cases---Will ANYTHING Ever Sway A JW From "The Truth"?
by minimus ini wonder..
-
-
Sulla
I being unnecessarily provocative. But I genuinely think that saying JW-ism is a cult transfers the responsibility away from where it belongs: the person who adopts it. I alos genuinely think the teachings of JW-ism are so transparently anti-gospel and aburd that people who adopt them have a serious defficiency in character: they are naive, dumb, power hungry, or otherwise pathetic. Keeping with the theme of this thread, these people are not likely to change their attributes and, therefore, are unlikely to react to anything we would consider evidence.
None of that means they are victims. We here ought not imagine them to be victims.
-
46
The UN Debacle, Disfellowshipping Policies, Child Abuse Cases---Will ANYTHING Ever Sway A JW From "The Truth"?
by minimus ini wonder..
-
-
Sulla
With respect toward Blondie and others who think JWs are a cult, I disagree. JWs are not a cult, they are not using mind control, it does not take some sort of superhuman effort to break free from them.
The JWs are simply a high-control religion which offers members certain spiritual benefits and imposes certain costs on both membership and leaving. A great many of their viewpoints and practices are pernicious, but they are working in a different behavioral universe from genuine cults.
Speaking broadly, JWs accept the ecclesiology the Org offers: this is the true church and the true church will make errors from time to time. People who leave the JWs over doctrinal issues instead of personal ones are accidents: in a regression model, they are error terms.
JWs are not mind-controlled, they're stupid.
-
102
Is the Borg "really" guilty in the Candace Conti case ???
by RubaDub infull disclosure:.
i am an active (2-4 hrs/month) 3rd generation jw hovering under the radar.
been posting here for 10 years.
-
-
Sulla
Actually, this is a very good question, RubaDub. And I don't think we have seen a comprehensive answer to it. Couple thoughts:
We should not necessarily limit the question to cases of child abuse; the same principle holds for a wide array of anti-social conduct on a sliding scale. If a guy were reproved for adultery, maybe couples in shaky marriages would want the information so as to avoid working with him in service. That's a trivial example, but I choose it to make the point: there are all sorts of things that people might wish to know about another person because their past actions serve as a signal of all sorts of risk to others.
My view is that the problem centers on 1) the Judicial Committee structure and 2) the invasion of privacy concerns (which are separate, in my understanding, from slander).
The Judicial Committee is not primarily a penitent-minister activity, concerned with the work of the soul. It is primarily a fact finding structure. It finds a person guilty of some sin or not as a matter of fact. It establishes state of mind (repentance) as a matter of fact. It routinely shares its findings with other parties. It asserts it is acting in the interest of the congregation. All of these things make it the sort of thing that might incurr a set of responsibilities much different from those of penitent-minister.
As for invasion of privacy, there are lots of disfellowshipping offenses that may be entirely true but that fall into something that looks like a legal invasion. Fornicating, smoking, taking blood, etc. are precisely the sorts of thing that might be found to be "not of public concern," and this invasive whether they are true or not. For invasion of privacy, truth is not a defense (as I understand the matter).
-
-
-
Sulla
Well, at least the military seems disinclined to allow the Brotherhood take over. And they are (contextually) pro-American.
-
25
Do you now have a customized religion?
by losthobbit ini was never a jw.
i was a member of the church of christ.
i didn't jump from christian to non-believer, but rather went through a transition period, and i'd guess that all of you did the same,... changing beliefs bit by bit until you believe what you do now.. when i first realized that there were logic problems in the bible i started to find excuses for those problems.
-
-
Sulla
Not the slightest interest in a customized religion; seems like an oxymoron to me, to be honest. I find it too easy to worship myself as it is, without starting my own religion. Hell, why not grow a long white beard and start writing a magazine?
-
66
What do apostates really want?
by Mr Facts ini'm just wondering what the whole apostate propaganda is all about?.
do you think you can do some sort of justice to the wt for the pains they have caused you?, what actualy are your motives?.
i dont get it.
-
-
-
44
Those who WERE or ARE Elders (Re: Molestation Coverup)
by dontplaceliterature ini'd like to hear from those who are currently elders or were formerly elders on your honest feelings about the charges brought against the society and their general policy in handling these matters.
do you think that the society handles child abuse accusations fairly?
or, do you think their policy is abusive?
-
-
Sulla
They discouraged us as Elders from reporting it to the authorities and told us to neither encourage or discourage the mother of the victim to report it. (Fortunately she did)
stuckinamovement, when you say you were "discouraged," how do you mean? I would assume you were directed not to report the matter, but perhaps I am mistaken.