If we change it from religion to belief...
I'm a postmodern radical constructivist who subscribes to Extropianism and atheism.
Skipper
Mindchild
JoinedPosts by Mindchild
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QUESTION: What religion are you in now? ...
by terafera inthis got me to thinking.... now that most of us have left the wts, i notice some have taken other belief systems.
some have come to a peace with their own ideas.. my question is are you involved with another religion?
has it brought you more peace or happiness?
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221
The meeting did not go well.
by Danni init would have taken more much more time to tell it all.
he told us the meeting would began as soon as the other brothers arrived.
danni: i will give you two.
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Mindchild
Dave (seven006)...you got mail dude.
Pork Chop your concerns are appreciated and being investigated even as I type this.
Skipper
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Ex JW Homelessness
by Celtic indoes anyone know of any former witnesses who upon being disfellowshipped etc were also faced with the prospect of homelessness, if so, would you please let me know, or, if you know of someone in this impending situation, also please let me know below.. kind regards.
mark
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Mindchild
Yeah Celtic, I know personally of a few cases. One of the worst I knew about was of a 14 year old dub who got disfellowshipped for having sex. Her mother kept beating on her to the point where she couldn't handle living at home and she moved into an abandoned car and sold herself into prostituion because she didn't know what else to do.
Knowing what I know now, I would have seen her mother in jail for that.
Skipper
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221
The meeting did not go well.
by Danni init would have taken more much more time to tell it all.
he told us the meeting would began as soon as the other brothers arrived.
danni: i will give you two.
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Mindchild
Outlaw, put down that shotgun for a minute! lol
Who said anything about about me sympathizing with pedophiles? It is the organizational policy we are talking about here. If there are any suspects they deserve to be put away where they won't hurt anyone. But what are you going to do? Spray each KH will gunfire and hope you hit a few by chance? Not saying you are implying this at all.
We just need a more effective way of doing the right thing. Draw the line where it should be.
Skipper
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221
The meeting did not go well.
by Danni init would have taken more much more time to tell it all.
he told us the meeting would began as soon as the other brothers arrived.
danni: i will give you two.
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Mindchild
SixofNine was addressing "clueless people" with her post but somehow I got the idea she was talking to me so please bear with me as I make a response.
Okay 6/9 what's wrong with this picture? (notice only minor word changes)
A person became interested in what JW's believe via a personal interest in one of JW's.
Okay...if things had been worded this way...well yeah, shit happens. But as she was an officer of the law and so was her partner, there was a much higher standard required of their conduct. There is also a much more serious psychological overtones. If you don't like a dentist, well hell find another one. If you think you are going to get your ass thrown in jail or be publically humilated by a cop, even if they are not wearing their uniform...that is a whole different story.She ck'd it out, utilizing both the resources provided by the person she was interested in, and the internet.
She was invited to come to the KH to meet with elders when a couple visited her at her door and were put off by her questions. Those questions were long on some of the more outrageous tenets and actions of JWism, and short on "is god really part of a trinity?" etc.
The meeting did not go well.
The interested person happens to be a dentist.
Her being a dentist colored the way the JW's treated her, and no doubt, the way she treated them.
So what?
Shit happens.
How would you feel if the shoes were on the other foot? Would you say enjoy a cop coming up and questioning you while you were out on a dinner date? Asking you where you were at such and such a time, and if you did this or did that? Perhaps you don't have a clue as to how many people feel about being confronted by police officers. I hate it personally, even though I didn't do a damn thing wrong. Anyway...this is where the problem is, not the fact that anyone just called them on something and got in a big arguement...it was the fact they were cops.
Borgfree...thanks for your response. I really don't have any problem with the examples you gave of confronting the Witnesses. I know all too well your frustration as I lost my whole family over the Borg. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that in the very real anger that ex-dubs have, it is easy for them to keep pushing the envelope and step over the line in getting revenge. Two wrongs don't really make a right as you know, but when you are hurt sometimes it just seems so damn tempting to hurt in return.
I just think as a community of people who really influence each other on this site and other sites, we need to be very careful in what we encourage someone to do or do ourselves. Some Witnesses when they leave are seriously mentally unstable and can easily be influenced to go off the deep end. I wouldn't want that on my shoulders.
TR, regardless of the exact wording of this story...it should be a wakeup call for us. I think we are justified in confronting the WTS but we also need some restraint as well. Where that line is drawn is an important one.
Skipper
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orgasms
by Englishman ini can think of 4 different kinds of orgasm.. 1. the religious orgasm.
oh my god oh god god oh god.. 2. the negative orgasm.
oh no, noo, no oh no.. 2. the positive orgasm.
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Mindchild
How about the one...
Did I just have an orgasm dear or am I just too drunk to tell the difference?
or...
The JW orgasm...it felt like a dream, and it was.
Skipper
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221
The meeting did not go well.
by Danni init would have taken more much more time to tell it all.
he told us the meeting would began as soon as the other brothers arrived.
danni: i will give you two.
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Mindchild
I want to go on the record for agreeing with Teejay's last statement as well. I really don't hold any grudges against Danni but what bothers me more is where does the ex-JW community draw the line?
Are you going into Kingdom Halls next and beat up elders? Are you going to burn down their Kingdom Halls? Are you going to sic your dog on them when they knock at your door? You need some therapy bad if you think you are justified in doing anything like this.
Yes, they did abuse people, likely even you. Maybe you got beatup routinely by your JW parents as I did when growing up. Yes, many of them do get on a power trip and abuse it. Yes, their religion is life-negative and the God they worship solves problems by murdering anyone who doesn't like him....ARE YOU ANY BETTER?
I hope you are. I think that nearly everyone on this board is. Yes we might have fantasies about revenge for what happened to us but we need to collectively draw a line in the sand about what is going too far.
I personally don't feel any remorse for showing disrespect for their organization. However I don't single out individuals for the same treatment unless I know personally they are scumbags as well. I think you need to be aware of the innocent bystanders of even your vocal attacks. Just as a bullet can easily pass through the walls of a home and into another home and kill a person, our words directed towards someone can miss their target and end up hurting someone we didn't intend to. If you want to protest, get a sign and picket an assembly or Kingdom Hall...you have a right to peaceful demonstration. But don't go pushing little old ladies out into traffic, drop kicking puppies, or scaring kids. Got it?
Just remember your best revenge is to be better than they are. Take the moral high ground. Do things that really count for making a better world instead of just bitching and moaning like everyone else. Help others see the crap the Borg dishes out. Encourage one another and stop with your damn grudges and flame wars and worse. Get therapy, get your shit together, and move on with your life!
Okay, I will get off my little stand and end this speech now but just remember if you are part of the problem you are not helping the solution.
Skipper
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221
The meeting did not go well.
by Danni init would have taken more much more time to tell it all.
he told us the meeting would began as soon as the other brothers arrived.
danni: i will give you two.
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Mindchild
This whole thread is really bugging the shit out of me and I think I have to be true to myself and state my own view even though it won’t be very popular.
There is something really wrong going on here.
I think we need to address this before the damage goes further. To start with Danni you need to realize that the people in this forum, with few exceptions have suffered deeply from their experiences with the Watchtower Society. Because of their real pain and anger it shouldn’t be unexpected for people here to support ANY actions that strike out against the Society. And this is regardless of the moral and mental consequences that such actions might take the form of. I really think you would see people in here happy if the entire Brooklyn printing operation caught fire and burned to the ground, even if it was caused by arson.
What I’m saying is let’s have the cheerleaders here calm down a bit and look at what happened here in terms of a moral crime. Yes, I never thought I would see the day when I would ever agree with anything Yadirf would say but I’m very troubled by this whole turn of events. I think this was a clear case of abuse of Police power.
If you had really suspected any real crimes of child abuse or other criminality were taking place in your jurisdiction, by all means please do your job as unpleasant as it may be at times, and try to find the people responsible for the crimes by law. This was not the case here. What you really did here (by your descriptions thus far) was not only putting JW’s as a whole in the debriefing room, but you undeniably caused severe psychological trauma to several people, and possibly even to the children outside.
I have NO respect for Jehovah’s Witnesses as an organization (you can see my role as the prosecutor in the online debate: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Deserve Respect—The Debate) but I do hold that individuals in this organization be treated just as respectfully as the next guy and this interrogation that you did with your partner was even worse than hog tying them and dragging them through a field of manure. It sounds to me like you both traumatized these people and made any future chances of them cooperating with you far less than zero. I really have a hard time believing that the law enforcement community would actually do this but then I’m seeing the whole picture of how everything has gone downhill in law enforcement and abuses of power are rampant all over the place.
Now maybe you were within the law here but if so, barely. But you were so out in left field on this one for the moral principles it was shocking. Yes, maybe you did have good intentions; maybe you were trying to do a good thing. I believe that. It didn’t turn out good at all.
For all of you disappointed in my condemnation of this action by Danni and her partner, let me say something to you as well. It is natural for us to want to have the lynch them up mentality and screw the Watchtower Society at every turn we can but do the ends really justify the means? Hell, I know lots of ways of screwing people over so badly that their life is seriously ruined, and I would use completely legal ways of destroying them. But I know this too, even if they deserve to have their life destroyed, my taking things in my own hands damages me inside. When I left the Borg it was for moral grounds and I didn’t want to be a liar and a hypocrite. I didn’t want to destroy people’s lives but instead try to save them. I say fight the Borg but watch out for the civilian casualties and the consequences of your actions.
Respectfully but very disappointed,
Skipper
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Okay Fess Up: What's Your Handle Mean?
by Mindchild inokay fess up: whats your handle mean?.
my handle: mindchild comes from computer scientist and futurist dr. hans moravec: who wrote the book, the future of robot and human intelligence which is a book about when we will be able to construct machines capable of human intelligence and raises the possibility of uploading ourselves (every thought we ever had) into an android body much superior to the human ones we have now.
i entertain the hope that not only will i live long enough to see this happen, i will transfer myself (the complete essence of what is me) into a body of my own choosing and become immortal if i so choose.
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Mindchild
Okay Fess Up: What’s Your Handle Mean?
My handle: Mindchild comes from computer scientist and futurist Dr. Hans Moravec: who wrote the book, The future of robot and human intelligence which is a book about when we will be able to construct machines capable of human intelligence and raises the possibility of uploading ourselves (every thought we ever had) into an android body much superior to the human ones we have now.
I entertain the hope that not only will I live long enough to see this happen, I will transfer myself (the complete essence of what is me) into a body of my own choosing and become immortal if I so choose.
Who needs a god when you can do it yourself?
Skipper
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How important is it to love someone in your life?
by Mindchild inhow important is it to have someone special in your life?.
when i was a regular pioneer, i was constantly hearing that i should put off getting involved with any romantic relationships because i would want to spend all my time with my new love, and i would give up serving as a pioneer.. after i left the borgs cuckoos nest, i still had to put off getting romantically involved in long-term relationships because of wanting to be a full time college student.
later in life, i put off involvement again because of career options.
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Mindchild
Saint Satan asked:
i have noticed that guys who spent a period of their life having sex w many different girls are now more tolerant, bigger hearted (should i say more 'loving' and being a real freind?) than the ridgidly moralistic types. I guess the question could be asked, were they sexually promiscuous because they were more loving to start w, or are they more loving as a result of giving/recieving love from different sexual partners.
That is an interesting question but I have to admit first of all that there are many men who have only had one sexual partner who are very loving, tolerant, and growing. Having said this, looking at my own experience of having multiple partners since I’ve been out, I tend to agree with you that it does change a man a lot in time. You come to realize the value of having say sex with feelings and sex without and you learn feelings wins hands down. You also begin to see that even though people are different we generally are all looking for someone to love us, care for us, and to build something together. I’ve really only met few women who were just strictly into just sex who didn’t have the hope that there might be something between us that would lead to something more lasting and higher quality than just great sex. I think for us guys, who are often slower in realizing our emotional needs that repeated exposure to this near universal pair bonding instinct tends to give us a wakeup call. Even some married women who have affairs are often looking for passion, love, and romance that has slipped out of their own lives.So, I don’t think it is so much sexual experience itself, but intimate exposure to several women that helps us grow some. I could be wrong but this is my guess.
Skipper