i am starting this topic to discuss the title.
i know many people on this forums dont believe in the idea of god , and even jw's reject the idea of a fiery hell even though the bible clearly states is.. this video contain testimonies osome people who even considered themselves as atheists until the point of practical death.. i just want to emphasize what one person said in the video at the point of death - " what if god is real, and what if all that which was being said about god was true" .
hope this helps whoever it may.. and one more thing, no matter what you do or how you live your life, just know that even at the point of death, jesus christ is able to save.
@Vanderhoven7:
Hope you are enjoying your coffee and computer time at the cafe' Bioflex :
I actually enjoy but a few things, and one of them is learning about God. Hoping 2 pay my bill by next week.
i guess its safe to assume there is going to be a form of torment but we dont know how long its going to be right? if thats the case them what do you say of Revelation ( 14 to be specific)
i am starting this topic to discuss the title.
i know many people on this forums dont believe in the idea of god , and even jw's reject the idea of a fiery hell even though the bible clearly states is.. this video contain testimonies osome people who even considered themselves as atheists until the point of practical death.. i just want to emphasize what one person said in the video at the point of death - " what if god is real, and what if all that which was being said about god was true" .
hope this helps whoever it may.. and one more thing, no matter what you do or how you live your life, just know that even at the point of death, jesus christ is able to save.
@Designs: Now the question is WHO taught them WHAT. Look through the Old Testament and tell me if the concept of judgement and resurection was thourougly established. The Iserealites knew about the judgment but did they know how it was going to be? They surely knew about the resurection but did they understand how they were going to live after the resurection?.
They were only fully established when Jesus came. And moreso Revelations talks into it deeply.
The fact that the pharisees had developed ideas about judgment/resurection did not mean they had it right. And the Rabbi's could have taught them without fully understanding them either. Talking about misinformed teachers.
Most of the pharisees's teaching were established from Moses and the prophets of old, but they never taught into detail about the judgement/resurection. That is why Jesus mostly clarified it because he knows------ Jesus = Word incarnate right?
i am starting this topic to discuss the title.
i know many people on this forums dont believe in the idea of god , and even jw's reject the idea of a fiery hell even though the bible clearly states is.. this video contain testimonies osome people who even considered themselves as atheists until the point of practical death.. i just want to emphasize what one person said in the video at the point of death - " what if god is real, and what if all that which was being said about god was true" .
hope this helps whoever it may.. and one more thing, no matter what you do or how you live your life, just know that even at the point of death, jesus christ is able to save.
@designs: Jesus accuses the Pharisees of being formalists and overtly pious and yet to be a Messiah he had to be those exact things- an Orthodox Jew observing all Laws and Rituals.
Are you serious about this arguement?. Perhaps you might want look up the meaning of HYPOCRACY . The pharisees lived contrary to what they preached and for that reason Jesus did condemn them.
How does that make him a hypocrate? Did he also not live by his teachings?
i am starting this topic to discuss the title.
i know many people on this forums dont believe in the idea of god , and even jw's reject the idea of a fiery hell even though the bible clearly states is.. this video contain testimonies osome people who even considered themselves as atheists until the point of practical death.. i just want to emphasize what one person said in the video at the point of death - " what if god is real, and what if all that which was being said about god was true" .
hope this helps whoever it may.. and one more thing, no matter what you do or how you live your life, just know that even at the point of death, jesus christ is able to save.
Plenty of Atheists give to the poor Bio. Btw, shouldn't you be giving the money you spend on internet and cable tv to the poor to assure you have a spot in Abraham's Bosom?
I see you like playing "Sherlock Hemlock" with this passage. You really have no idea how much the rich man gave to charitable causes. Nor do you know how much he gave to Lazarus. Perhaps he gave much and often and that's why those who laid him at the rich man's gate daily continued to bring him. Let's not assume anything about the rich man's character...or about Lazarus' character or the reasons for their post-death situations, other than what the text reveals. (See verse 25)
well you really dont know how much i give to those in need, and i use my internet mostly for work, any other reason is secondary. if i gave that money out i would not have any to give next time though will i?
Eternal torment was not derived from scripture, but from Babylonian and Greek mythology and adopted by certain religious factions within Judaism and promoted especially during the intertestamental period.
you might want to read yourself some Revelation. I suppose Babylonian and greek mythology has something to do with it right? Its supposed to be the revelation of Jesus Christ about the end of days, and judgement.
More assumption Bio. Jesus didn't have anything to say about the steward's character. However, even fraudsters usually don't commend those that defraud them.
Luk 16:9 And I say to you, Make friends by the mammon of unrighteousness for yourselves, so that when you fail, they may receive you into everlasting dwellings.
Mammon - A Syriac word meaning riches. It is used, also, as an idol the god of riches.
So it is clear what message Jesus was portraying here, Perhaps you need to stop leaning on your own understanding to interpretate the scriptures.
For the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
Do you understand what that means? . Who are the children of the world?
Now the fraudulent steward knew about his bad ways, and he had his mind made up about what he was going to do -------> continue in his bad ways.
Now the moral lesson here is for pharisees/ christians to
1. serve God whole heartedly and desist from that which is evil or
2. go after the ways of the world and not pretend to serve both God and riches/unrighteousness ---> this was exactly what the pharisees were doing---- > Hipocrates.
Luk 16:13 No servant can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
I am thinking that you are either ignorant or refusing to acknowlegde the lesson behind the story Jesus told in Luke 16.
You did not answer the question Bio.
Again most of Jesus's preaching about hell/judgement was not meant for the pharisees. The pharisees did not even understand how the judgment/ ressurection was going to be.
Just read Revelation 14 and tell me what your take is on that okay.
i am starting this topic to discuss the title.
i know many people on this forums dont believe in the idea of god , and even jw's reject the idea of a fiery hell even though the bible clearly states is.. this video contain testimonies osome people who even considered themselves as atheists until the point of practical death.. i just want to emphasize what one person said in the video at the point of death - " what if god is real, and what if all that which was being said about god was true" .
hope this helps whoever it may.. and one more thing, no matter what you do or how you live your life, just know that even at the point of death, jesus christ is able to save.
@Vander: sorry 4 the late reply, my internet is down, and i have to go to the cafe each night.
Perhaps you know of other things we all can conclude without adding ideas to the text.
Mat 25:41 - 46 : Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
From this text we can asume that the rich man in Lazarus's case was being tormented not because he was rich but rather because he negleted his fellow man to suffer even though he had more than enough to spare.
Why do you think Jesus preached (Hades) Hell-fire to the Hell Fire preachers of His day? Was He trying to help them get their message across?
You might want to look into the scriptures, and see how many times Jesus spoke about the end and punishment, most of them were not directed to the pharisees. And Jesus often called the pharisees hipocrates because they knew the law but did not follow them.
I suppose revelations does talk in general about punishment for all men alike, and you should find ETERNAL TORMENT for both some humans and the devil too.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Like i said, their beliefs mostly went contrary to the things Jesus taught, concerning issues of the ressurection, and the afterlife too. I am not famiar with their belief of eternal torment but one thing was clear, they did not even abide by their own laws and teachings.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Again ETERNAL FIRE/TORMENT is stressed on here, especially for those who take the mark of the beast. And the devil himself being put into the fire. You would realise that the
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
"the commendable fraud artist"
I thought this passage was obvious, no? If you read the whole of Luke 16, Jesus talks of one man not being able to serve two masters equally. In the passage a fraudster is considersed wise by his fraudulent master because they share the same qualities --> BAD/EVIL. Do you think a desent master would have commemded the fraudster?
It shows how the pharisees decieve themselves thinking they are serving God, when they could saved themselves all the trouble and live as the evil men they are. That way they would not get disappointed when they are condemned in judgement. But we already know they are hipocrates right?.
the point was made at the assembly today, that we have to 'prove' our love for jehovah to him.
as i sat there, bored, this thought struck me as odd.
since jehovah is supposed to be able to read 'hearts', why do we as humans, have to prove anything to him, since he already knows us down to our kidneys and would know if we loved him or not.
There is nothing likie predestination, even in the bible. You only end up where you want to be. I am talking about death and ressurection to be precise.
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i have heard the assertion that acts 15:29 saying: "keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood" was a decree set forth as a recommendation to keep christian gentiles from stumbing christian jews.
the same assertion says that 1 corinthians 8 makes it clear that it is a conscience matter to "keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols".
however, revelation 2:14,20 seems to show that eating things sacrificed to idols is much more serious of a grievance.. .
I suppose in both instances it warns christians gentiles/jews alike to stayaway from idol practices, like festivals and offerings,etc.
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
1Co 8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
I guess these verses are quite self explanatory.
imagine if he changed his mind and jesus got angry and said: "no......i need you to do this!!!
" {judas} "no, i can't .......i changed my mind!!!
" {throws money away} .
Jesus knew Peter would deny him trice, did that mean peter should hang himself ? I would not argue about Judas though, It was just obvious that the pharisees would have had Jesus killed either way.
If there was one thing Judas did wrong, then its for killing himslef, i bet he would have been saved had he repented.
why was it 3 days before jesus was resurected after he was torched on the stake?.
Rocky_Girl : I woudn't say a man being in the belly of a whale for 3days/3nights is a coincidence, especially not when we was vomitted out at a shore after all those days.
