Posts by bioflex

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

bioflex

@Cofty: Every species has its unique strengths that it has evolved over millions of years to equip it to succed in hunting its food or in escaping predators. This arms race between predator and prey is responsible for most of the complexities of life that we marvel at today.

I can barely stop luaghing when i hear things like these Over millions of years? really? One thing you seem to ignore is that all the unique strenghts about said animals could have been as a result of their creation. Diversity works for creation too, dont you think?

You believe in the notion that given enough time organisms from a common descent would evolve to bocome so different right?

@poopsiecakes: Well Cofty, I doubt anyone will penetrate the mind shield that bioflex has built for himself. But hey, it's worth a shot right?

The same could be said about you.

@The quite One: Pain is universal to living things(plant and animals) .Animals dont behave like humans, they lack most feeling humans have, animals dont feel bad about seeing one of their kind die right infront of them. That is how they were made.They feel pain and that is all there is to it. Cruelty is mostly on the part of humans. Animals dont consider their prey to be suffering. Just humans.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

bioflex

@Cofty: Are you really saying god made all these killing machines after the naked lady ate the fruit?

No, they were made before that incident took place. What you are saying is that the cheetah is not justified to have such speed if it just fed on plants. You are implying that the fact that the cheetah is fast means it was made to catch prey.

Animals only began to exhibit their abilities/features after the falling away. They were not cared/fed for, rather they had to feed and provide for themselves. That is when both humans and animal begun to exhibit their capabilities

@poopsiecakes: How about camouflage? Why did a loving god create animals with perfect camouflage? So that they could hide really well before pouncing to give a big hug? How about the venus flytrap? Was this created by a loving god to catch bubbles?

Isnt is beautiful? i mean how wonderful all the animals exhibit various fasciating characteristics, and yet all this is nullified by the evil effects that could come out of it.

Seriously bioflex, you really need to read more - or subscribe to Animal Planet. Or something, because your ignorance is embarrassing. The natural world is filled with natural suffering. It's life.

The natural world is surely filled with suffering and its quite evident, dont you think? Let me ask you, do you think animals feel/reason the same way as humans do?

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

bioflex

@Cofty: Now let me throw in this logic

Lions, tigers, Cheeters, Jaguar = These all hunt similar preys. So why do they all have different builds and abilities? Why are cheetahs so fast? why do Jaguars climb trees and lions cannot ? And why are lions stronger than cheetahs ?

Its because that is how they were created. Each exhibiting different features.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

bioflex

@The Quite One: haha, and i am asking how you came to the conclusion that animals do suffer? is it the pain you are concerned about or what?

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

bioflex

@Cofty: Its very muscle fibers called myosin are of a particular type that permits it to accelerate to 60mph to catch its hapless victims.

Now what makes you think its because of prey that cheetahs are built to run that fast? So does this mean other animals that hunt similar prey to cheetahs are at a loss for not evolving speed muscles?

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

bioflex

@Cofty: Did anybody really think god made cheetahs able to run at 60mph so they could be first to the best grazing?

Your reasoning is pretty much flawad on this, you do realise that variation was consistent in creation. Thats the beauty of it. Different animals with different features excelling at different things.

@Ziddina:

I always find it hilarious that humans think that they "design" and "create" things, independent of ANY other natural process...

If one looks at the procession of human technology, one will find that human technology EVOLVES.... Despite the human efforts at "creating" things...

Let me see if I can get a decent progression of the evolution of the automobile, here...

One thing you are missing here is the fact the progression of technology does not change the the product, it only improves it. Just check the evolution of cars and how much has changed over the years and yet they are still called cars. They dont change. So how does is compare to the evolution where one organism changes entirely to another?

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

bioflex

@The quite one: Let me start by asking you to define suffering in the context of your post, i see you mentioned animal suffering, well what about plant suffering too? when you buy that orange from the market and slice it up to fill your desire do you in any way feel the orange might have suffered? after all its a living thing too right? So why just concern yourself with animals?

Is it because plants cant make those sad faces? or perhaps because they dont have blood? If i am allowed to speak my mind, frankly i think most of you are acting hipocratically. Why are you pretending to care for animals all of a sudden?

If there is one thing i find intruiging, its how evoltion tries to clasify humans and animals as not so different, i mean dont they teach that we all stemed from the same ancestry way back in time? And i am not too familiar with the concept of evolution but if life started in a basic singular from then dont both animal and plants share the same ancestory? So its like

(Human = Animal = Plant) = Life(Billions of years back) . i could be wrong though but i think you get my point.

Now back to your question about why God allows suffering(animals specifically). If there is anything to be said i think the bible has quite detailed answers about your question, that is if you believe its credible enough for you.

Genesis 1: 30(KJV) = And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

That should give you an idea of how God intended things to be. Man and animals alike were not created carnivorous from the beginning, they were made to be herbivous from the start. And it was so till the falling away. One thing you should realize is that the earth was made for man, and man was to dominate it all. Any action of man did not just have effect on him alone, but on the earth and all that exist on it too.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was the enbodyment of all the principles of good and evil we experience today, violence, pain,suffering to name a few.

51

Theists - Please Explain This.......

by AK - Jeff in

and please don't do so with the standard "i don't know the answer - but there surely must be one.

" or some other lame attempt to defend god/bible without a real explanation.. here goes:.

i find it incredibly interesting how hard the mind works to prevent rational thought when it suits it's purpose.

bioflex

@NewChapter: Then exactly who owned them? We've already established that the egyptian cattle was all dead.

Isn't is obvious that the Israelites owned the cattle?

And that the Israelite firstborns were skipped---if they had the blood on the post.

That is if you are implying the Israelites had their cattle with them in their houses, and last i checked cattle dont live in houses, which means the means the rule of losing first borns applied to them(cattle) as well.

So what was left to kill?

I am thinking you are just being sarcastic, you do realize that its two acts that happened there right?

1. Egyptians lose their cattle ---------- Israelites retain all their cattle.

2. Epyptians lose their firstborns( man and livestock) ------------ Israelites lose the firstborn of all livestock.

Simple as ABC.

51

Theists - Please Explain This.......

by AK - Jeff in

and please don't do so with the standard "i don't know the answer - but there surely must be one.

" or some other lame attempt to defend god/bible without a real explanation.. here goes:.

i find it incredibly interesting how hard the mind works to prevent rational thought when it suits it's purpose.

bioflex

@AK-Jeff:

Exodus 9:1-6

And the LORD did that thing on the morrow, and all the cattle of Egypt died: but of the cattle of the children of Israel died not one.

Its clear that none of the cattle of the Egytpians remained where as all the cattle of the Ishraelites lived.

But in Exodus 12: 1, 13, 29,

13 - And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

Here we see that the only exception is to the houses that have the blood on their posts. The Israelites were to sprinkle the blood on the doorposts of the houses they observed the act in, which means neither their cattle or other livestock were excluded from the destruction that was to come.

29 - And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all thefirstborn of cattle

Not only did the Egyptians lose their firstborn sons but they also lost the firstbort live of their livestock. The Isrealites also lost the firstborns of all their livestock( cattle included) because the blood was meant for their houses and not their animal farms.

12 - For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD

firstborn of all cattle , does not mean the Egyptians owned them.

41

Latest Study Article: Was Jephthah surprised at his daughter coming out?

by garbonzo in

paragraph 15: "he vowed that if god gave ammon into jephthah's hand, the first one to come out of the door when he returned home would be jehovah's.

as jephthah returned home from subduing ammon, his daughter came running to meet him.

(judg.

bioflex

rocketman:It was not a human sacrifice. Jepthah would have exercised the option of redeeming his daughter by means of a lamb as an offering instead.

The girl weeped over her virginity, which would be perpetual due to her temple service. She wasn't weeping over her untimely death.

are you kidding me ?. The guy who made the oath said he was going to offer a burnt offering, not a person for life servitude.

Judges 11: 36 - From the horses own mouth

And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth;

Judges 11 : 39

And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed

need i say more?.