Posts by QUANTUM

54

QUANTUM SPEAKS

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

dear ex jw's:.

if some of you remember my initial entrance to these boards was commenting on the child abuse situation.

i stayed to long... i was feeling the tension of several discussions with some of the people i work with who are active jw's.

QUANTUM

gedanken, expatbrit,mary, kenneson,austrailia, refiners fire,plmkrzy

I quantum declare you people insignificant!

54

QUANTUM SPEAKS

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

dear ex jw's:.

if some of you remember my initial entrance to these boards was commenting on the child abuse situation.

i stayed to long... i was feeling the tension of several discussions with some of the people i work with who are active jw's.

QUANTUM

I just want to express my appreciation for the wonderful response so far....

I hate to dismantle your vitriolic platitudes, but the lack of real knowldege in this subject by everyone of you so far makes me wonder how you people make it through life. With this kind of narrowmindedness and hatred........ oh yes I said hatred......you must be a real joy to be around.

The mocking list which has been provided by one of your psuedo apologists is very funny.....by answering each one in a derogatory way it is trying to fake scholarship.

I'll try and make this simple......the idea of the list is to demonstrate that a young uneducated man produced a work which was remarkable....have others done so...YES but there is where the comparison stops...I'm only going to offer a few things to show the deception here....The Lord of the Rinds was a mans life ntime work it was written over a 30 year period...the man had a PHD.....Smith had no education and produced this major work in 80 days........The koran was dictated over a 20 year period and was a commentary about how to live and act....there is no story involved which talks of a culture which no one knew about at the time of Smith...only later...after everyone in his day said things like...who ever heard of ancient peoples writting on gold plates.....Who is Lehi there has never been a name like that from where he was supposed to come from....and countless others which can and will be named as time goes on...but alas....if your neighbor lifted your house off its foundation would you say he had super human powers.

the claim that Smith was able to put in his narrative figures of speech and metaphors ect. ..another point was missed by light years...it's not the figures of speech and metaphors of Smiths Day but of Lehi's day 600 bce.........which have proven to be completely accurate. thanks to modern archaeology...How did Smith Know the culture and mannerisms of those people....the whole idea of the question.....go write a book which deals with an ancient people no one Knows anything about but will be dicovered at some later time..then we will see if you were correct in your statements about them........that is exactly what Smith was able to do.....

I think the spurious smoke screens are put up by very brain washed people........when I invetigate something I first go to the source then to the critics...DISHONEST PEOPLE USE THE OPPOSITE WAY!

QUANTUM IS STILL THE GREATEST

54

QUANTUM SPEAKS

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

dear ex jw's:.

if some of you remember my initial entrance to these boards was commenting on the child abuse situation.

i stayed to long... i was feeling the tension of several discussions with some of the people i work with who are active jw's.

QUANTUM

REFINERS FIRE:

I am going to comment.....I want to comment....I feel the fire to comment.

But here is the problem I face.....some of you,,,I would say the majority...... would like me to defend every negative statement ever written against the church which you can post on the board....

Now anyone with common sense knows that responding to that kind of an onslaught would not solve the principle issue.

I could have been Jesus christs next door neighbor and mentioned things he undoudtedly said as a man...[ he wasn't quoting scripture every second of his life....and didn't his own towns people run him out of town for making a declaration of himself?....How could a God or son of God talk like the rest of us......come on pleeeeeeeeeez use your heads.

No matter who some one is people will have negative things to say...

NOW the central idea is to establish if he ever did anytthing right first then we can look at all the wrong he supposedly did

But I think I alresdy have my answer where you are concerned..REFINERS FIRE...your mind is already made up and you are not seeking to really understand that JOSEPH SMITH was or is a fraud you already KNOW SO! YOU did not read my POSTS nor did you seem to understand what everyone has been asking of me....THEY WANT EVIDENCE THAT JOSEPH SMITH IS A TRUE PROPHET OF GOD>>>>NO ONE ON THE PLANET WOULD EVER OF DISCOVERED AMERICA IF THEY CONTINUED TO BELIEVE WHAT EVEYONE WAS SAYING......

QUANTUM HAVING TO ENDURE IGNORANCE!

54

QUANTUM SPEAKS

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

dear ex jw's:.

if some of you remember my initial entrance to these boards was commenting on the child abuse situation.

i stayed to long... i was feeling the tension of several discussions with some of the people i work with who are active jw's.

QUANTUM

Dear Ex JW's:

If some of you remember my initial entrance to these boards was commenting on the child abuse situation. I stayed to long..

I was feeling the tension of several discussions with some of the people I work with who are active JW's. I was begiining to understand the kind of mind control they were under. I came to this board to use my less than curteous ...but mostly sport to open the flood gates of people emotions. I didn't want to hear a bunch of cooing.

well, what ever mistakes I made in this regard I apologize for anyone willing to accept it. For the others, maybe we can just carry on as we were....see who can cut the deepest...

I am faced with several problems. I may be wrong but I don't think I brought up anything regarding my religion until Francois brought up evolution. I like a challenge but I didn't want to expose my religion seeing how almost everyone seemed to be decrying organized religion.

I was trying to figure out a way to give my views withoput saying I was LDS. ..CATS out of the bag now! I didn't think that simon would allow this kind of dialogue and I didn't want to be excluded....so we'll see if we go much further.

The other concerns are some May..and I say that with intrepidation, want to give a fair hearing....others I sense are hear merely to deride.

The important factor is what would you consider evidence of a superhuman nature.....Notice I did not bring God into this...God may have His day later.

I think I made some remarks designed to see any positive responses but I still got alot of jeers....some people will never read all of the posts and will only chime in to ridicule.

SO.....what would at least start to be some evidence...let me give you some ideas and we'll go from there.

if possible, try to hold your judgement about the MAN Joseph Smith and just look at what he has done. there will be planty of opportunities to attack him on a personal level.

For anyone who has actually taken the time to read the Book Of Mormon ( from now on BOM) they will find a history of a small group of people who left palestine...refered to in the BOM often as the land Of Jerusalem. The record of this people it was claimed by Joseph Smith to be wrtten on small gold plates pounded out into thin sheets. The language of this people was not known to anyone (according to Smith) so God gave him translating powers so the people of our generation could understand that God is the God of everyone and Jesus is The Christ.

Many people scoff at this so here is the first of hundreds of ... Not Proofs but Evidence that J. Smith had superhuman powers ....powers which are talked about in the Bible.

I am assuming that at least some of you have a rudimentary understanding of the BOM

Who could write such a book as the BOM....Could you FRANCOIS....

1.you must be between 23& 24 years old

2. you cannot be a college graduate. in fact you can have only three years of formal schooling

3what ever you write must be on the basis of what you know

4 you must write a book with 239 chapters; 54 of them about wars, 21 about history, 55 about prophesy, 71 about doctrines, 17 about missionaries, and 21 about the mission of Jesus Christ.

5. you must include in your writings the history of two DISTINCT an SEPARATE nations, along with histories of different contemporary nations or groups of people.

6 your writings must describe the religious, economic,social and political cultures and institutions of these two nations

7.you must weave into your history the religion of Jesus Christ and the pattern of Christian living

8.when you start to produce this record, covering a period over 1000 years, you must finish it in approx. 80 days.

9. when you finish you must not make any changes in the text. the first edition must stand forever

10. after pause for food or sleep you must never ask to have the last paragraph read back to you by your scribe.

11. your history or record must be long, approx 522 pages with over 150 words per page.

12. you must announce that your narritve is NOT FICTION, but an absolutely faithful and true sacrd history.

13. it must show that it fulfills Bible prophesy

14.you must pulish it to every nation, kindred, tongue and people, declaring it to be the word of God.

15. millions must bear record to the world for the next 172 years that they know the record to be true. ( because they put the record to the test which is stated in the BOM, ...in paraphrased terms..if after you have read the BOOK if you want to know whether it is true or not ...ask God and he will reveal the truth unto you..........[ I will say right here that many have asked and not received an answer....I do not know why....there are some specific conditions when you ask and maybe some people did not fulfill those conditions....I only know I receved an answer along with many millions of others]

16.thousands of great men...intellectual giants and scholars must subscribe to its teachings and willing to give up their lives for it.

17. your description of the cultures in these civilizations of which you will write about are not known at the time you puplish your book

18. there can be no flaw whatsoever in the entire book.

19. you must not make absurd or contradictory statements

20 EVEN SO, MANY OF THE FACTS, IDEAS, AND STATEMENTS GIVEN US AS TRUE IN THE RECORD MUST BE ENTIRELY INCONSISTENT, EVEN THE DIRECT OPPOSITE OF THE PREVAILING BELIEFS OF THE WORLD. VERY LITTLE IS EVEN CLAIMED TO BE KNOWN ABOUT THESE CIVILIZATIONS AND THEIR 1000 YEAR HISTORY

21 you must invite the ablest scholars and experts to examine the text with care. you must strive diligently to see that your book gets into the hands of all those eager to prove it a forgery and a fraud.

22.THROUGH INVESTIGATION, SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL DISCOVERIES OVER THE NEXT 172 YEARS MUST VERIFY YOUR CLAIMS AND PROVE EVEN THE MINUTEST DETAILS OF YOUR HISTORY TO BE PERFECTLY TRUE.

23. AFTER 172 YEARS OF EXTENSIVE ANALYSIS, NO CLAIM OR FACT IN THE BOOK IS DISPROVED, BUT ALL MUST BE VINDICATED....OTHER THEORIES AND IDEAS AS TO ITS ORIGIN, RISE AND FALL, LEAVING "YOUR" CLAIMS AS THE ONLY POSSIBLE ONES!

24. INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL PROPHESIES MUST BE CONFIRMED AND FULFILLED WITHIN THE NEXT 172 YEARS...[ HAS THE WTS HAD ANY OF THEIR PRDICTIONS OR PROPHESIES FULFILLED?]

25. THREE HONEST, CREDIBLE WITNESSES MUST TESTIFY TO THE WHOLE WORLD THAT AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN APPEARED TO THEM AND SHOWED THEM THE ANCIENT RECORDS FROM WHICH...YOU CLAIM...YOUR RECORD IS TRANSLATED FROM.

26. YOU MUST CALL OUT OF HEAVEN THE VOICE OF THE REDEEMER TO DECLARE TO THE THREE WITNESSES THAT YOUR RECORD IS TRUE AND THAT IT IS THERE RESPONSIBILITY TO BEAR TESTIMONY, AND THEY DO TO THEIR VERY DEATH BEDS!

27. EIGHT OTHER WITNESSES MUST TESTIFY TO THE WORLD THAT THEY SAW THE ANCIENT RECORDS IN BROAD DAYLIGHT AND THEY HANLED THEM AND FELT THE ENGRAVINGS THEREON.

28 THE FRIST THREE AND THE SECOND EIGHT WITNESSES MUST BEAR THEIR TESTIMONY, NOT FOR PROFIT OR GAIN, BUT UNDER GREAT PERSONAL SACRIFICE, PERSECUTION, AND EVEN TO THEIR DEATH.

29.FINALLY. AFTER SUFFERING PERSECUTION AND REVILEMENT FOR 20 YEARS AFTER YOU FINISH THE BOOK, YOU MUST WILLINGLY GIVE YOUR OWN LIFE FOR YOUR TETIMONY THAT THE RECORD IS FROM ..GOD.

14

Quantum - "not one negative anti-mormon cl...

by alex_recovering_mormon in

jw
friends

not one negative anti-mormon claim has stood up to scrutiny?

baloney - here is a list for your leadership to honestly respond to.

the lds church has no foundation of truth at all since the first vision is uncredible, the book of mormon & book of abraham are obviously fiction, the church plagiarized their temple ordinances, they are clueless on the nature of god, etc.

QUANTUM

VOLTAIRE

YOU CAN'T BE THAT IGNORANT...The WTS has not and is not standing the test of time...every negative thing said about the WTS IS TRUE and can be shown to be the case.

LDS church is laughing in the face of their detractors. and nothing can or ever will be proven in a negative way against the church...somebody ...try to be specific!

Q!

109

LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

please refer to the following.

http://farms.byu.edu/free/transcripts/index.html.

begin with daniel peterson's evidences for the book of mormon.

QUANTUM

neonmadman....one of the problems is you board name

the other one is no one is asking specific questions...they are either calling names or asking such broad questions it would take an encyclopidia to answer.

Where are the RUINS? this question I cant' understand if you have any Knowledge at all about the Book Of Mormon. Although no one Knows the exact place of the BOM civilizations... when Joseph Smith translated and Published the book he nor anyone else were aware of the extent of the ruins in mexico, central and south america. It is now believed that the BOM took place in Mezoamerica Where the lasr peoples there were the MAYAN.....the fact he published a bok which contained statements which he had no personal Knowledge of but have proved over time to be exactly true is another evidence of his prphetic calling!

QUANTUM!

14

Quantum - "not one negative anti-mormon cl...

by alex_recovering_mormon in

jw
friends

not one negative anti-mormon claim has stood up to scrutiny?

baloney - here is a list for your leadership to honestly respond to.

the lds church has no foundation of truth at all since the first vision is uncredible, the book of mormon & book of abraham are obviously fiction, the church plagiarized their temple ordinances, they are clueless on the nature of god, etc.

QUANTUM

Alex:

Well, You've left the church...How long were you in the church and how long have you felt this way about the list of 10 you deposited here.

This is a JW site with certain rules for posting. I'm sure this is against them. quickly however, everyone of your claims are valid, but they have been answered many times and the answers are readily available if you link up with Mormon apologists web sites.

There will always be things in the church of Jesus Christ which will be misunderstood...It was so when He was upon the earth and the teacher and it continues to be. Most main line Christian chuches Don't expect much of their adherents. Their only rule is you must declare that you believe in Jesus Christ and that will be sufficient for your reward in heaven. ...This is a false teaching but is so forcefully guarded that any church claiming that Christ actually expects more than just lip service out of their members challenges their belief and their membership roles.......while The LDS church is growing many of theirs are declining. Pentacostals put on an exiting and enteraining show and many people attend their services....but are most of them real members or are they just there for the feel good service.......

The point is ....it is not easy to be in Christs true church...look what happened to the early Apostles and members. the persecution end with them having to give their lives for the cause.....Just as Joseph Smith willingly did along with his brother Hyrum. The persecution continues but the church not only survives but thrives.

You tried to find answers to your questions by asking the persecuters and people who make a living slaming the church,

No negative claims have stood the test of time with this church. Quite the contrary. As time goes on the teachings of Joseph Smith become stronger and stronger and many are fearful of the landslide of truth which is over taking them.

Quantum THE DEFENDER OF TRUTH!

Edited by - QUANTUM on 12 July 2002 10:31:53

109

LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

please refer to the following.

http://farms.byu.edu/free/transcripts/index.html.

begin with daniel peterson's evidences for the book of mormon.

QUANTUM

OK EVERY BODY...THIS PROPHESY IS SO GREAT THAT WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE PROPHESYING OF THE MESSIAH THIS IS SECOND ONLY TO IT AND IT IS BEING FULFILLED BY MANY OF YOU AS WELL AS THE LDS CHURCH

WHAT IS IT!!!!!

.................Q!

109